 Adelaide65SS
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 80
Loc: South Australia
Reg: 06-20-11
|
01-13-25 12:30 AM - Post#2877024
I can see the topic of spring installation has had a bit of discussion over the years and I seek some clarification and advice.
I want to reassemble the front end however spring compression is problematic with no engine weight.
After much reading I have decided that I am not confident to use any compressors so I will wait until the motor is in before reinstalling the springs.
My (perhaps silly) question is can I assemble and sit the body on to move it around etc with no front springs in?
I am not familiar with ball joint loadings but does this mean they would be under compression instead of tension ?
Thanks
|
|
japete92
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2358
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
|
01-13-25 08:29 AM - Post#2877036
In response to Adelaide65SS
Why not put the springs in w/o the engine? Once they are 'between' the ball joints they will stay there. The engine when installed will compress them in place.
Ever see a car with the engine removed? It sits high up front but that does not hurt anything; it's standing still. It is done rather frequently.
Pete
|
Adelaide65SS
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 80
Loc: South Australia
Reg: 06-20-11
|
01-13-25 10:26 PM - Post#2877063
In response to japete92
Thanks Pete but I am not sure I follow you.
I want to compress the springs enough to attach ball joints and spindle but cannot do that without using a spring compressor (not keen) or wait until I have engine weight to jack the lower arm upward.
I was wanting to know if simply attaching the ball joints to the spindles (leaving the springs out for now) to put wheels on and move the chassis/car around is ok.
Thanks
|
 DHMelton
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 448
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
|
01-14-25 06:42 AM - Post#2877073
In response to Adelaide65SS
With no springs, you will need to put 'something" in there (block of wood, etc) so the suspension isn't bottomed out.
Doug
|
65OldSchool
Newbie
Posts: 37
Loc: Western Washington
Reg: 10-27-20
|
01-14-25 12:03 PM - Post#2877085
In response to DHMelton
I'm curious why you are not "keen" on using a spring compressor. Yes, they can be dangerous if not used properly and carefully, but they work very well if used correctly.
Bart
1965 SS 396 4-Speed
Tuxedo Black |
|
Adelaide65SS
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 80
Loc: South Australia
Reg: 06-20-11
|
01-14-25 12:45 PM - Post#2877086
In response to 65OldSchool
I am just going by what I have read in forums and the trouble some people seem to have had with achieving good even compression. I have also shown the springs to a couple of shops here and the opinion was that the compressors they had would struggle with the big block springs.
Probably also out of their comfort zone also as not used to dealing with this scenario with modern cars ?
|
 docjns1
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 443
Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 11-12-19
|
01-16-25 02:50 PM - Post#2877133
In response to Adelaide65SS
presumably a bit more ooomph needed w/big block spring vs small block but I've used compressor to do that with mine. 'internal' compressors running thru the 'inside' of the spring with shocks removed will do but you do need to be careful. repair manual process is to leave ball joints connected, compress springs best you can and I improvised a short length of 2x4 (4-5") on end on pad of my floor jack and raised it into the channel of the arm cradling the bushing, remove camber bolt then lower arm from the inner mounting end
Steve
*********
'65 Impala SS, Crocus Yellow/blk
327 / 300 L74
M11 3 on the tree
12 bolt 3.31 open dif |
|
docjns1
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 443
Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 11-12-19
|
01-16-25 02:51 PM - Post#2877134
In response to docjns1
sorry, dont know why but that picture rotated 180 when uploaded and is actually upside down but hopefully you'll get the idea.
Steve
*********
'65 Impala SS, Crocus Yellow/blk
327 / 300 L74
M11 3 on the tree
12 bolt 3.31 open dif |
|
Adelaide65SS
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 80
Loc: South Australia
Reg: 06-20-11
|
01-16-25 03:22 PM - Post#2877136
In response to docjns1
Thanks Steve, I have the springs out so do you think the reverse of that method would work with putting the springs back in ?
Thinking I still need the engine weight to jack against ?
Thanks
|
jktucker92
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 596
Loc: West Richland, WA
Reg: 02-05-17
|
01-16-25 04:05 PM - Post#2877137
In response to Adelaide65SS
With a spring compressor, you don't need the engine in the car. You compress the spring until it's compressed enough to be able to fit everything in place with no load, then slowly release the spring. You have to plan well since once the spring is compressed, you need the spring compressor to not interfere with any components as the front end is assembled. There is a way to remove it with a jack and no spring compressor, but I believe that's less safe, as long as you're using quality tools and use them correctly. If you use a jack to compress the spring against the engine weight, the jack could slip out and then the spring will release a lot of energy.
I installed mine with a bare frame and no engine mounted to the frame and no body on the car. For the rear springs, I needed weight on the bare frame to jack the rear end up after the springs were in place, but I didn't use a spring compressor in the rear.
|
 toro455
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1514
Loc: Western NY
Reg: 06-15-02
|
01-16-25 06:41 PM - Post#2877142
In response to Adelaide65SS
If you read prior topics you likely already came across this but if not I will mention it. The top of the front springs need to be clocked properly. If not it seems to impact ride height. There's a tiny hole where you can sense the cut end but it's not easy to see. If you get it wrong you risk doing the job twice.
We installed Global West BB springs in my car and the GW springs are shorter, to start, and higher rate. We installed them with an internal spring compressor. It was a nerve racking process. I would highly recommend lubricating the threads of the spring compressor and, second, use only hand tools. We started with a spring compressor which had been used before, so that may have contributed to what happened, but we could tell the spring compressor was getting difficult to turn and then we realized the threaded section was stretching which made the threads bind. As soon as we realized it we backed off the compression and we bought a new spring compressor. We didn't think of lubricating the threads and, had we used a high power air tool, we may have snapped the shaft as opposed to noticing there was an issue.
One other thing I vaguely recall is we tried to grab one coil lower than grabbing the maximum number of turns. If successful that would have made removing the tool easier as I recall but unfortunately we couldn't shorten the total height of the spring enough even after fully compressing it.
Take you time and good luck!
Edited by toro455 on 01-16-25 06:45 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
 66SS632
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 488
Loc: Langley BC
Reg: 02-09-13
|
01-16-25 11:04 PM - Post#2877149
In response to toro455
Another solution easier but much more expensive as a set of QA1 coil over front shocks.
Adjustable performance ,ease of installation and adjustable ride height . Nobody will know you have them unless they take a hard look or you tell them.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qa1-gs401-10550 ...
Still a 17 year old delinquent Hot Rodder
|
|
 Rick Dorion
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 435
Loc: Accord, NY
Reg: 09-21-12
|
01-17-25 04:10 AM - Post#2877152
In response to 66SS632
My experience followed Scott's. The second try with a new compressor I used Anti seize on the threads.
Ultimately I went with coil overs from Ride Tech as I was playing with ride heights!
| 1967 Bel Air - LM7 5.3, Autogear M23Z, Global West, manual C5 brakes and 18x9.5 C5 magnesium wheels. |
|
docjns1
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 443
Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 11-12-19
|
01-24-25 07:45 AM - Post#2877347
In response to Adelaide65SS
As to 'reverse' method to install springs, yes, that is the factory repair procedure for removal and installation. Agree with Rick re: lubing the threads of whatever compressor you choose.
As for engine weight, if you mean to keep from lifting the whole car while jacking the arm into place I think that'd be trial and error unfortunately. While at it, if you havent replaced those bushings on the arms I'd do it at the same time. Hopefully you saved the very thin cap style washers also, they're hard to come by but I've seen similar marketed for some older 'vettes
Steve
*********
'65 Impala SS, Crocus Yellow/blk
327 / 300 L74
M11 3 on the tree
12 bolt 3.31 open dif |
|
Adelaide65SS
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 80
Loc: South Australia
Reg: 06-20-11
|
01-25-25 06:44 PM - Post#2877400
In response to docjns1
Thanks Steve, I had a look in the factory manual and I see there is a drawing of a 'tool' made from a metal bar and a block of wood that can help to swing the arm up.
Yes I have replaced the bushings and the washer you refer to, is that the slightly convex one on each end of the arm and is secured in place by a bolt which threads in to the end of the arm?
|
Gaspains
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 528
Loc: Nomad based out of SD
Reg: 11-23-09
|
01-26-25 01:06 PM - Post#2877421
In response to Adelaide65SS
I had a machine shop build a tool to the specs in the manual back in the 80s. Memory serves me that I gave up using it and rented a spring compressor. Still scary but more controllable than the pry bar method. I ran across it the other day while going through my extra parts boxes.
Kevin
1965 Impala SS Coupe
Regal Red with Black Interior
L74 327
M-20
3.31 Open, 12 bolt
65-66 FSCC #512
NIA #2832 |
|
docjns1
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 443
Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 11-12-19
|
01-27-25 05:40 AM - Post#2877434
In response to Adelaide65SS
Thats a yes on the washers. As for the tool in the manual I did not do that, just very carefully used the block of wood. It works ok as long as you get it to cradle or keep it just outboard of the bushing. I still used the spring compressor to relieve the tension but if you have them out of the car dont garb the very top/bottom turns as you'll need room to seat them. Also as mentioned previously, look for the hole in the upr arm to orient them properly
Steve
*********
'65 Impala SS, Crocus Yellow/blk
327 / 300 L74
M11 3 on the tree
12 bolt 3.31 open dif |
Edited by docjns1 on 01-27-25 05:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
bbcrtny
Poster
Posts: 77
Reg: 07-01-10
|
01-27-25 10:25 AM - Post#2877448
In response to Adelaide65SS
The tool is on page 3-12 of the 1965 Chassis Service Manual. https://www.chevytalk.org/CT/65IMPALACSMCOMPLET E.p...
|
|
Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member 
Attachment: 
