 super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-10-24 09:59 AM - Post#2869715
I have a totally restored 1951 Chevy 2 door hardtop. 1964 Chevy 327 ,bored 30 over , powerglide trans and 3.55 chevy rear.
I bought it last fall 90% done with Fresh rebuilt motor ,trans and rear. Everything new or rebuilt top to bottom.
I have ran into numerous little problems all winter. But finally got it on the road last month.
Drove 10 miles to a shop and had #3 exhaust valve spring break . Friend had good used valve springs so for now we replaced #3 intake and exhaust valve springs .BUT then a week later I broke #1 intake valve spring so we replaced that .
Checked lash on all and adjusted . I'm going to replaced all valve springs but for now I needed fuel sender replaced and brakes fixed .
So had 140 miles on motor and made my longest drive ,37 miles to a friends garage since he has a lift. Replaced fuel sender and found bad master cylinder so those issues are fixed .
Drove the 37 miles at 60-65 with no problems . BUT
on way home (2 days later had to order master) I only got about 18 miles and engine got really hot ,oil pressure dropped (due to heat)wouldn't keep running .
I had friend come and tow me home . Once home it ran for 45 minutes in garage with no problem ,at idle.
I've driven it twice now and I can't go 2 miles without it getting hot and wanting to stall, runs rough, shakes.
We have checked thermostat, water pump, re-checked valve lash , antifreeze 50/50, headgasket good.
1964 ,327 , bored 30 over, RV cam ,headers edlebrock 600 carb,
Strange thing is I had 178 miles on it with NO problem. SO what happened while sitting in friends garage ???? Why did this problem start on way home ? After 170 miles ??/
Any ideas 
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tommy49
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3597
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
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05-10-24 12:59 PM - Post#2869721
In response to super_cheyenne
Sounds like a Craigslist rebuild, wrong springs for the cam,, worn cam, worn out oil pump, cracked block/head, spun bearing. What testing have you done?
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Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3442
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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05-10-24 03:08 PM - Post#2869726
In response to super_cheyenne
So the engine locks up when this happens?, what are the temps, good circulation in the radiator, cooling system not air bound? How did you check for bad head gaskets? Lottsa info needed here, no quick answer for this.
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-10-24 05:44 PM - Post#2869734
In response to tommy49
New block,magnafluxed ,bored 30 over, new oil pump, oil is still crystal clear, all new components, new intake,CAM unknown, suppose to be RV cam. New larger radiator , big electric fan , REMEMBER NO problem with heat for 170 miles
Checked lash on all valves -good, check thermostat - works properly, checked water pump- vanes turn,works correctly, 14lb radiator cap , checked timing was at about 15 retarded to 8 did not do any good.
I ran 170 miles no heating issues. Just started after 18 mile trip home from 38 miles away
Now gets hot in 2 miles ,won't keep running , runs rough from a cold start
Car was restored by a friend of 22 years and another friend both mechanic,bodymen, the PO has done over 50 total restorations. Some $100,000 customs. Good Guys but one died after rebuilding motor. My friend didn't finish car because he was building it for his wife who die suddenly 4 years ago.
NO ONE said anything about "locking up"
I've already talked to 2 machine shops in the area and a half dozen engine builders all with the same suggestions ,
Valve lash,
Timing,
thermostat,
water pump,
Radiator cap
And I have checked all those items over and over.
Just wondering what I could be missing ????? Why after 170 miles??
Thanks
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Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3442
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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05-10-24 05:55 PM - Post#2869735
In response to super_cheyenne
You harp on the fact no issues for 170 miles, this does not equate to anything but that is when the overheating began. That issue is your main concern. From our desks all we can do is suggest some steps based on your info. I referred the
locking up comment to the issue with the problem of keeping it running when overheating, which can lead to that happening.
Edited by Shepherd on 05-10-24 06:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 GreatNorthWoods
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1608
Age: 82
Loc: Littleton, New Hampshire,...
Reg: 03-31-02
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05-11-24 01:59 AM - Post#2869738
In response to super_cheyenne
When you first start it, are you getting a lot of condensation (white smoke) from the exhaust? I had a 327 with a cracked head years ago that had similar symptoms. Getting hot in 2 miles is very quick and my guess has to be either a bad head gasket, cracked head, or cracked block.
Vern
1953 Chevy Belair Sport Coupe - 355 Chevy V8, 700-R4, 4-wheel disc brakes, Ididit column, cruise/tilt,'59 Vette Steering Wheel, A/C
1930 DeSoto CK Business Coupe- 350 Chevy Crate V8, 4-wheel disc brakes, TH400, S-10 Rear, Heidt's IFS, A/C |
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bobb
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6686
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
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05-12-24 10:23 AM - Post#2869758
In response to super_cheyenne
need to drain the oil in a clean pan if you want to reuse. pull all plugs and pressurize the cooling system. see if coolant comes out from anywhere. roll the engine over to check for leaks into cylinders. did you verify coolant flow?
| 70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails. |
Edited by bobb on 05-12-24 10:24 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-12-24 04:33 PM - Post#2869769
In response to GreatNorthWoods
When you first start it, are you getting a lot of condensation (white smoke) from the exhaust? I had a 327 with a cracked head years ago that had similar symptoms. Getting hot in 2 miles is very quick and my guess has to be either a bad head gasket, cracked head, or cracked block.
Now that you said that I did notice the last time I had it running in garage that the left side exhaust was really creating a lot of water , condensation spitting out the exhaust more so than on the passenger side. It was making quite the wet spot on floor . :sad :
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tommy49
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3597
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
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05-12-24 07:24 PM - Post#2869772
In response to super_cheyenne
Pull the plugs, put some rope or heavy string into the cylinders, pressure the cooling system. Wait a spell, then pull the rope/string out, see if any are wet.
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GreatNorthWoods
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1608
Age: 82
Loc: Littleton, New Hampshire,...
Reg: 03-31-02
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05-13-24 03:35 AM - Post#2869778
In response to super_cheyenne
Then you probably have a bad head gasket, cracked head, or the block is cracked on that side. That is exactly what my 327 was doing when the head developed a crack on that side. I replaced the head on that side and it was fine after that. 
Vern
1953 Chevy Belair Sport Coupe - 355 Chevy V8, 700-R4, 4-wheel disc brakes, Ididit column, cruise/tilt,'59 Vette Steering Wheel, A/C
1930 DeSoto CK Business Coupe- 350 Chevy Crate V8, 4-wheel disc brakes, TH400, S-10 Rear, Heidt's IFS, A/C |
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IgnitionMan
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4081
Reg: 04-15-05
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05-13-24 03:25 PM - Post#2869804
In response to super_cheyenne
Need this info, please, can help then
Initial timing (vacuum advance disabled for test)
How many degrees does vacuum advance at idle (vac adv on FULL MANIFOLD VACUUM, NOT PORTED)
How many total degrees, @ what rpm? this is adding initial (no vac adv, and mechanical curve)
What ratio anti-freeze to TAP water?
What radiator, fan, shroud, thermostat, water pump
What carb and intake manifold
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-14-24 08:47 AM - Post#2869830
In response to IgnitionMan
found another broken valve spring,#1 exhaust valve spring , currently waiting for new springs to arrive for installation.
Replacing all 16
12-14 degrees advance
no vacuum advance
mechanical advance ,Mallory Dual point converted to Pertronix
Edelbrock manifold, edelbrock 600 cfm carb
160 thermostat
Electric fan set at 190 degrees
Checked water pump, impeller intact and rotating
Antifreeze 50/50
Edited by super_cheyenne on 05-14-24 08:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3442
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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05-14-24 09:23 AM - Post#2869834
In response to super_cheyenne
Make sure these springs aren't running into coil bind, at full lift you want at least .060 coil clearance, also the bottom of the retainer not hitting to top of the valve guide.
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G. Baker
Contributor
Posts: 109
Loc: Ontario Canada
Reg: 12-18-15
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05-14-24 12:20 PM - Post#2869845
In response to super_cheyenne
Don't just 'check' the Thermostat, Replace it with 180° one, and then check timing. Replace ALL Valve Springs and install NEW Factory waterpump, not the High HP one with shaved vanes. Tighten Fan Belt.
Is is routed through Heater Core?
Report back.
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-15-24 09:27 AM - Post#2869884
In response to G. Baker
If a thermostat is working properly why should it be changed ?
Check timing- how many times ?/ It's been checked about 20 times.
I stated that I ordered new valve springs and I am replacing ALL of them
The water pump was replaced when the motor was overhauled - why replace again? Who said it was a High Hp ??
Fan belt has been off and on and tightened every time
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japete92
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2273
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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05-15-24 11:48 AM - Post#2869887
In response to super_cheyenne
Without vacuum advance, your timing is futzed up. Until the timing is correct, the engine timing may be causing some of your issues.
So, if you post the numbers Dave (ignition man) suggested, perhaps there's some help here in this forum.
Just trying to be helpful.
Pete
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VWNate
Senior Member
Posts: 393
Loc: Sunny So.Cal.
Reg: 09-25-02
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05-16-24 06:28 PM - Post#2869954
In response to japete92
Interesting .
I remember one of my mates was building Low Rider Hot Rods and encountered a 'reverse flow' Chevy 350C.I.D. water pump, apparently some years use a serpentine belt that runs the pump backwards and so requires a pump with a different impeller .
Just one more thing to check .
12+ initial degrees timing advance is a lot, I'd suggest easing it back to 10 degrees B.T.D.C. .
Since you've broken more than a few valve springs I wonder how good this 'rebuilt' engine is, possibly some beads / sand or other debris got left in the water jacket and is now blocking the top tubes in the radiator ? .
YOU are there, we are not so you have to diagnose thing mess .
Did you try squeezing the top radiator hose ? you should always feel coolant coursing through it .
I never run more than 40% coolant for what that's worth .
Once it's getting hot, remove the upper baffle plate and hood latch, carefully slide your hand down the front of the radiator ~ it should (ne must) be equally hot from side to side and get cooler as you slide your hand down .
I'm an old Geezer so I tend to do things a little bit differently, kike we did when this was a new or old used car .
-Nate
'49 3100 Series Pickup W/'57 235 & Muncie M420 ~ SOLD & Missed .
'69 C10 Stepside shortbed L6 250, TH350, P.S. & P.B. side mount spare also greatly missed . |
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-19-24 05:44 PM - Post#2870049
In response to japete92
Without vacuum advance, your timing is futzed up. Until the timing is correct, the engine timing may be causing some of your issues.
So, if you post the numbers Dave (ignition man) suggested, perhaps there's some help here in this forum.
Just trying to be helpful.
Pete
Distrbutor is a Mallory Dual point with MECHANICAL ADVANCE as stated previously , you may have missed that
Thanks
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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05-19-24 05:51 PM - Post#2870050
In response to VWNate
Interesting .
I remember one of my mates was building Low Rider Hot Rods and encountered a 'reverse flow' Chevy 350C.I.D. water pump, apparently some years use a serpentine belt that runs the pump backwards and so requires a pump with a different impeller .
Just one more thing to check .
12+ initial degrees timing advance is a lot, I'd suggest easing it back to 10 degrees B.T.D.C. .
Since you've broken more than a few valve springs I wonder how good this 'rebuilt' engine is, possibly some beads / sand or other debris got left in the water jacket and is now blocking the top tubes in the radiator ? .
YOU are there, we are not so you have to diagnose thing mess .
Did you try squeezing the top radiator hose ? you should always feel coolant coursing through it .
I never run more than 40% coolant for what that's worth .
Once it's getting hot, remove the upper baffle plate and hood latch, carefully slide your hand down the front of the radiator ~ it should (ne must) be equally hot from side to side and get cooler as you slide your hand down .
I'm an old Geezer so I tend to do things a little bit differently, kike we did when this was a new or old used car .
Well, Friday I got my new valve springs and installed them all . Adjusted lash and put everything back together .
Engine sounded great ,, ,,,, for a while, about 20 minutes .. I took it around the block (very short block) and I heard it , KNOCK,KNOCK,KNOCK ,faster the engine went,the faster the knock went .
Sure wish my machinist was still alive 
He'd fixed me up , the PO was a close friend but not the expert that Fran, the original engine builder was .
Just don't know what I want to do now , I'm in too deep ,probably can't sell it as is without taking a huge loss.
Edited by super_cheyenne on 05-19-24 05:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike JW
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1562
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
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05-19-24 08:42 PM - Post#2870053
In response to super_cheyenne
327 were great engines, not known to heat up. (Like a flathead) find a 292 L6 a little head work, cam, some carb work. And you'll run with the 327's and most 350. Beside's they look good.
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japete92
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2273
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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05-20-24 08:19 AM - Post#2870064
In response to super_cheyenne
Without vacuum advance, your timing is futzed up. Until the timing is correct, the engine timing may be causing some of your issues.
So, if you post the numbers Dave (ignition man) suggested, perhaps there's some help here in this forum.
Just trying to be helpful.
Pete
Distrbutor is a Mallory Dual point with MECHANICAL ADVANCE as stated previously , you may have missed that
Thanks
Absolutelt NOT being argumentative but you said '...mechanical advance ,Mallory Dual point converted to Pertronix...'.
I took that to mean you replaced the dual points with a Pertronix unit that replaces points.
Regardless, the dual point ignition (in my opinion) is for racing only. A single point (or Petronix) distributor with vacuum advance will run much better (and cooler ).
Good luck with fixing your problems.
Pete
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50hotrod
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1089
Loc: Wisconsin
Reg: 07-25-11
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06-20-24 10:32 AM - Post#2871068
In response to super_cheyenne
Interesting .
I remember one of my mates was building Low Rider Hot Rods and encountered a 'reverse flow' Chevy 350C.I.D. water pump, apparently some years use a serpentine belt that runs the pump backwards and so requires a pump with a different impeller .
Just one more thing to check .
12+ initial degrees timing advance is a lot, I'd suggest easing it back to 10 degrees B.T.D.C. .
Since you've broken more than a few valve springs I wonder how good this 'rebuilt' engine is, possibly some beads / sand or other debris got left in the water jacket and is now blocking the top tubes in the radiator ? .
YOU are there, we are not so you have to diagnose thing mess .
Did you try squeezing the top radiator hose ? you should always feel coolant coursing through it .
I never run more than 40% coolant for what that's worth .
Once it's getting hot, remove the upper baffle plate and hood latch, carefully slide your hand down the front of the radiator ~ it should (ne must) be equally hot from side to side and get cooler as you slide your hand down .
I'm an old Geezer so I tend to do things a little bit differently, kike we did when this was a new or old used car .
Well, Friday I got my new valve springs and installed them all . Adjusted lash and put everything back together .
Engine sounded great ,, ,,,, for a while, about 20 minutes .. I took it around the block (very short block) and I heard it , KNOCK,KNOCK,KNOCK ,faster the engine went,the faster the knock went .
Sure wish my machinist was still alive
He'd fixed me up , the PO was a close friend but not the expert that Fran, the original engine builder was .
Just don't know what I want to do now , I'm in too deep ,probably can't sell it as is without taking a huge loss.
Well, you can't have all this "knocking" going on without something showing up in the oil.
Wipe the dip stick with your fingers and rub your fingers together. If you feel anything other then "smooth" oil, there's debris in there.
1950 CHEVY 2 DOOR 327 TRI POWER FENDERWELL HEADERS HEIDT FRONT SUSPENSION 700R4 TRANS 411 REAR
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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07-12-24 04:43 PM - Post#2871706
In response to 50hotrod
Well, since last posting , I pulled engine ,sent to machine shop . WE were hoping for the best but got the worst.
All bearings shot,trashed, New cam since current cam unknown, new lifters, Crank turned ,journal polished, rods resized, new rings . Used the block since it only had 200 miles on it and the new valve springs because they only had about 15 minutes run time.
Also had the heads done over . Discovered that someone had put them together wrong ,wrong retainers, had spacers in all exhaust valves heads were screwed up from day one.
Presently got new engine broke in. Took it a couple miles today . Changed metering rods in carb,was running too lean, moved radiator forward a whole 1/2" !! But that gave me a whole inch between fan and radiator,so I could install a mechanical fan that required only a 1/4" !! No shroud but helps a lot . I still installed electric fan for pusher .
Only issue today on test ride was 2 freakin' spark plug wires came off plugs . That's the second time plug wires have come off ! And I checked them over and over and my wife checked them Gotta fix that problem.
So since buying this car that was 95% done last September , just needing weather stripping, door panels, bumpers put on ,rocker panels I've spent over $6000 !!! $3360 for rebuild
WHAT A DEAL :mad : :mad :
Definitely got screwed on this deal .
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super_cheyenne
"20th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1087
Age: 72
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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07-16-24 06:45 AM - Post#2871818
In response to tommy49
Sounds like a Craigslist rebuild, wrong springs for the cam,, worn cam, worn out oil pump, cracked block/head, spun bearing. What testing have you done?
found all of the above upon tear down on engine
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 drtyler
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 796
Loc: Georgia
Reg: 05-06-10
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07-16-24 07:48 AM - Post#2871820
In response to super_cheyenne
Well it stinks that you had to spend so much extra money and time on the car, but it should be good to go now, right?
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