 super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-12-23 11:24 AM - Post#2864089
There is a large heavy spring that is on the steering shaft .
Should it contact the back side of the horn ring ?? It doesn't ,it only contacts the steering wheel
1951 Chevy hardtop
When I assemble everything ,there is no spring to the horn ring when you try to blow horn. The horn ring is loose to the wheel.
Tightening the contact ring does no good.
It seems like there should be spring pressure on the back side of horn ring ? Am I correct ?
I've done this install before on my '50 and these instructions don't help with my problem.
https://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/miscellaneou...
THanks
Edited by super_cheyenne on 11-12-23 11:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 drtyler
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 725
Loc: Georgia
Reg: 05-06-10
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11-12-23 01:08 PM - Post#2864093
In response to super_cheyenne
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254378440012
There are instructions in the pictures. It looks like the metal plate with the holes is the spring. Not sure if this works with a 51.
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-12-23 05:18 PM - Post#2864110
In response to drtyler
There is a large heavy spring that is on the steering shaft .
What is it for ?? It does nothing currently but push against the steering wheel when I put the steering wheel on .
It does not contact the horn ring ,Should it ?
I'm wondering if there is a piece missing that would go on shaft before putting horn ring and steering wheel on that would give spring to the horn ring ??
The concave horn contact ring doesn't create any spring .
Any more ideas anyone ?
Thanks
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belairbob50
Contributor
Posts: 569
Loc: OH where rust never sleep...
Reg: 03-17-13
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11-13-23 08:07 AM - Post#2864127
In response to super_cheyenne
Attached is a photo of a page I copied from this site. I believe it is the handy work of RAM_51. I could not find the original post so I took a photo of the copy I have of it. It shows a 1950 steering wheel. Hope this helps
[image] [/image]
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53sd
Contributor
Posts: 210
Reg: 12-08-08
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11-13-23 08:15 AM - Post#2864129
In response to super_cheyenne
The spring is to keep pressure on the bearing at the top of the steering shaft.
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 RAM_51
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6481
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
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11-13-23 08:18 AM - Post#2864130
In response to super_cheyenne
Try this instruction for the Chevrolet booklet, SERVICING 1949-1952 PASSENGER CAR STEERING GEAR which accompanied a discussional slidefilm that was sent to Chevrolet Service Departments. The only spring in regards to the horn ring is the flat metal spring disk and it MUST be installed in the orientation shown; CONCAVE SIDE DOWN. I assume the heavy spring and spring seat on the shaft, "under the steering wheel" both serve to insure that the mast bearing stays seated in the steering column tube. 1950 shown but 1951-52 is the same aside from a full horn ring and ornamental differences.
1951 Fleetline Preservation
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green) |
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-13-23 01:49 PM - Post#2864140
In response to RAM_51
Thanks everyone for all the diagrams , But I already have all of those and I have it assembled the correct way,
BUT the horn ring has no spring to it and the contact ring never touches the steering column ,it never makes ground to blow horn .
The horn does work if I ground contact to column.
If I had my '50 available I'd take it apart to see what is wrong .
I'm lost ,I tried contact ring up and down doesn't work either way .
I have all the parts that are shown in pictures .
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eplantage
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2625
Loc: Southern MN
Reg: 03-15-04
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11-14-23 04:16 AM - Post#2864151
In response to super_cheyenne
I have a '53 column in my '50 sedan delivery as I wanted the turn signals. I had a similar issue with the horn. What I discovered was that I had overtightened the screws that go through the plastic ring and it flattened the "spring washer" under the horn ring and prevented it from contacting anything underneath it. I loosened them up until I could press the horn ring and sound the horn. Mine works properly now.
Age: 69 at the moment
1950 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery
1953 BelAir Convertible Project
2002 Heritage Springer FLSTSI
1930 Model A Standard Coupe |
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RAM_51
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6481
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
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11-14-23 05:34 AM - Post#2864156
In response to super_cheyenne
Eplantage is correct. The three screws do not get tightened down completely. Doing so will compress the spring and the horn will not rock...it will be in a continual pressed state. So yes, loosen the screws until the ring has an obvious "rocking" motion to it. Another thing I noticed is that your steering wheel has been repainted. You might try cleaning the obvious paint build up from inside the hub. I believe this is causing an interuption in the flow of current. In fact, I'd make sure all contact points are clean and bright from the mast jacket bushing, to the spring that rides on the bushing, the spring washer, and as I pointed out, the inside hub of the wheel. Finally, if you cannot get a rocking action with the three screws loosened to their "sweet spot" and with the spring installed according to the illustration above, you may need another more "spry" spring washer.
1951 Fleetline Preservation
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green) |
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-14-23 07:21 AM - Post#2864161
In response to RAM_51
I've already tried all your suggestions about the ring. The ring adjustment goes from being too tight to being too loose . There is no adjustment that gives me a spring to the horn ring .
It's either tight or too loose that it wobbles.
So perhaps the concave washer is worn out .
BUT also I will check the paint ,the PO restored the steering wheel and repainted it
I'm guessing the concave ring must be worn out ,I've tried bending it so it would have more concave but it hasn't helped.
Does anyone know where I can get just a NEw ring ?? I've found horn kits but no single ring .
Thanks
Edited by super_cheyenne on 11-14-23 07:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-14-23 07:33 AM - Post#2864162
In response to RAM_51
Ram51 , do you think I need to remove the paint from the outside of the hub of steering wheel ,where I have blue circle??
If I don't I see no way for the ring to contact steering shaft ground ??
Edited by super_cheyenne on 11-14-23 07:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-14-23 09:39 AM - Post#2864166
In response to 53sd
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-14-23 11:24 AM - Post#2864167
In response to super_cheyenne
I think I might have found my problem ! Look at the next 2 pictures, I;m missing these plastic pieces !
Evidently 2 styles.
The last picture is all I have , no plastic pieces! So when I try to blow horn the contact ring doesn't move !
Gonna try to rig something up to test my theory
What do you think?
I also cleaned all the paint off onside my steering wheel
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RAM_51
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6481
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
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11-14-23 11:27 AM - Post#2864168
In response to super_cheyenne
When new, the steering wheels had no paint on the inside of the hub. The exposed steel hub goes to about the center area of the three larger holes that the horn blow ring screws pass through. This would need to be exposed for the circuit to be completed. Once you remove the paint, you will see the steel hub. If you study the link you posted in your lead-in comment, you will also see it there.
I believe the additional pieces you show above are for the '53-'54 and possibly up into the tri-5 horn assemblies...as far as my experience goes, they are not needed on the '49-'52 Deluxe horn assemblies. All the Deluxe horn blow rings I've worked on ('50 and '51) only required the parts shown in my posts above to work properly.
If your spring is behaving as you describe above (going from loose and rattling to tight and not moveable), personally, my thinking is that you should invest in a new spring as opposed to the additional parts you are showing.
1951 Fleetline Preservation
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green) |
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-14-23 02:25 PM - Post#2864173
In response to RAM_51
Yep, the problem is definitely that the steel contact ring is not touching the center of steering wheel , that hub you circled
I have removed all the paint on the outside of the hub you circled and on the backside also where the heavy spring makes contact.
Works great with a screwdriver but nothing I do makes the metal contact ring touch the center of steering wheel.
And yes ,I agree my contact washer is TOO flat ! I've tried bending it to put more arch in it but that doesn't work .
So adjustment goes from "too tight"to "too loose" .
Guess I need to find a new contact ring But so far I only see them in a kit . Guess I'll have to "bite the bullet" and spend more money :mad :
Guess by your circle I should take off even more paint than I did. Take it off out as far as your circle .
Edited by super_cheyenne on 11-14-23 02:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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bobt
Contributor
Posts: 378
Loc: colonial heights va
Reg: 06-28-14
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11-15-23 03:08 AM - Post#2864176
In response to super_cheyenne
I know this is silly but I have my steering wheel on upside down because I think it looks better. My cross bar is on 8:30 and 3:30 (incorrect) instead of 9:30 and 2:30 (correct) Another silly question. What position is the emblem in the middle?
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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11-16-23 08:44 AM - Post#2864210
In response to bobt
I'm still lost .
I think the paint is screwing me up . BUT
Does the contact occur on the top with the metal ring or does it occur on the bottom side of steering wheel with the horn ring ??
I can't see what moves to make contact to ground the horn ??
The metal ring doesn't move so now I was thinking it is from the bottom and the horn ring that makes the contact 
I don't know where else to remove paint ??
Edited by super_cheyenne on 11-16-23 08:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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kzhurley
Contributor
Posts: 161
Age: 40
Loc: Orrville,Ohio
Reg: 01-02-12
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11-16-23 10:00 AM - Post#2864213
In response to super_cheyenne
Fwiw on my 50 wheel there is no paint in the center and also approx 1-3/4 diameter circle around the center. The center of the cone spring is what touches the wheel to make contact with the flat part of the wheel.
1950 Styleline Deluxe 2-door sedan..
348 tripower/NP833 4-Speed/3.73
1950 Styleline Deluxe 4-door..
Vortec 4200 I-6/4l60e/3.42/current project car
1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville 500 efi/4l80e
1987 GMC R1500 Sierra Classic
454 tbi/700r4/3.42
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Edited by kzhurley on 11-16-23 10:08 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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RAM_51
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6481
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
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11-16-23 10:54 AM - Post#2864216
In response to super_cheyenne
I'm still lost.
The instruction states to put the spring washer in with the "CONCAVE SIDE DOWN". This is counterintuitive. It would seem, if installed that way, the spring washer would immediately make contact with the metal hub of the steering wheel....and it does! However, the instruction also says to adjust the three screws until proper horn operation is achieved. What you are actually doing when you are adjusting or tightening the three screws is basically, "LOADING" the spring washer. Generally speaking, a spring doesn't do any work if it isn't first loaded. For you physics mined folks, we're talking potential energy here.
By tightening the three screws, you are in actually lifting the center of the spring washer away from the center and off of the metal hub of the steering wheel at "B" in the illustration. If you over tighten, it pushes the spring back against it again (it flattens the spring out)....hence you are trying to achieve the "sweet spot" that was referred to earlier. As a side note, the Shop Manual illustration, Fig. 16 below, isn't very good as it actually shows the horn assembly in either an "overtightened" or "horn blowing" state...there should be a slight gap seen at "B" if the horn is adjusted properly and the horn is not blowing...which is not shown.
The three screws, and more specifically, the plastic ring, when tightened / adjusted properly serves as a pressure point at "A" which forces the spring onto the metal center of the steering wheel hub.
Once adjusted properly and the horn ring is pushed, it forces the spring washer to collapse at "A" causing the spring washer to contact the metal hub of the steering wheel at "B" which in turn actuates the horn relay and finally the horns. Once you lift pressure off the horn ring, the spring washer, filled with the potential energy spoken of earlier, lifts away at "A", contact at the metal hub of the steering wheel is lost, the horn relay circuit is broken, and the horns go silent.
1951 Fleetline Preservation
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green) |
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super_cheyenne
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1019
Age: 71
Loc: Williamsport, Pa. USA
Reg: 10-14-01
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12-01-23 03:51 PM - Post#2864675
In response to RAM_51
DANG, I'm sorry  , I thought I posted, PROBLEM SOLVED !!.
It was the paint ! Once I removed enough paint from around the center of the steering wheel, all the adjustments worked like they should !!
It was just all that paint from when the PO restored steering wheel stopping it from making contact .
I knew it had to be something simple ! 
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RAM_51
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6481
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
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12-02-23 07:27 AM - Post#2864688
In response to super_cheyenne
PROBLEM SOLVED !!.
Glad you got it sorted out. Yes! When you first posted photos of the steering wheel...I noticed the paint build up in the hub immediately.
1951 Fleetline Preservation
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green) |
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