Hello, it's been a few years since I've been around here and I've probably forgot more than I used to know. Fast forward a few years and completely change my mindset 180 degrees. I have a few questions and I would like to hear some honest feedback. Older age and being a little more realistic and budget minded has brought me here to ask some probably stupid questions.
The project in question is a 1968 CJ-5 jeep. It currently has an old tired 225 Cid oddfire buick V6. Factory rated at around 160hp. Parts are getting harder to track down and more expensive.
So I have decided to start collecting sbc parts for a swap.
Intended use is cruising around the back roads. Local OHV area easy trails and dirt roads. Occasional 20 mile round trips to work on the back roads in nice weather. This is not going to be used for rock crawling or mudding.
From what I can this is close to stock height. New tires will be about 29.5"-30" tall. Axle gear ratio is 4.88. Dana 18 T case with advance adapter to muncie 4 speed car transmission.
I have a couple of small chevys in my possession. One is a complete 327 or 307. Casting says 327 but the little pad by the water pump says it could be a 307. Ran when pulled out. Head casting 3911032.
I got a fresh 350 short block from a trusted source .060 over with 2 track days on it. Basically block with rotating assembly. Pistons are 4 valve dished. Not exactly exciting in my opinion.
I picked up the short block from a friend and found the 327/307 for dirt cheap thinking it was worth the oil pan,oil filter adapter, small balancer and timing cover. The heads were also included still bolted on. So I figured it might be a bonus.
My dilemma is I'm not going for maximum power. I would like to buy a cam kit, gasket kit and intake and run what I have. I can't see spending a ton of money on new heads etc if it doesn't need it. If I was trying to build a fast toy I wouldn't mind buying a set of aftermarket heads.
I'm not sure how the 3911032 heads would work on a 350 and what mild (stock or very lightly upgraded) cam to use vs what kind of results I could achieve. Low rpm torque at slow and cruising speeds in a 2500 pound vehicle not my normal deal.
I haven't pulled the heads off to inspect them yet. If they check out I would like use them. If the 327/307 turns out to be a 327
Would the smaller displacement work better for my intended use and listed combination?
Any advice, thoughts, comments etc would greatly be appreciated before I do something that ruins the setup.
Approximately, the 307 has a 3-7/8" bore and a 3-1/4" stroke. It is basically a 'stroked' 283. The 327 has the same 3-1/4" stroke but a 4" bore. The 350 has a 4" bore and a 3-1/2" stroke.
Generally, the longer stroke yields higher low end torque. The shorter stroke allows more HP at higher rpm.
From your post, it would appear to me that any sbc block can be built to suit your purposes. The running engine you have would be my choice.
Just my opinion.
Pete
Edited by japete92 on 08-30-23 06:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
IMHO, the 307 has never gotten the respect it deserves. I transplanted one into a 67 Camaro years ago and put a 4bbl carburetor on it which 307s never came with. It really woke up the little engine. It was my wife's car and she drove the wheels off of it for years. I think you would be very happy with a 307 in your Jeep.
Vern
1953 Chevy Belair Sport Coupe - 355 Chevy V8, 700-R4, 4-wheel disc brakes, Ididit column, cruise/tilt,'59 Vette Steering Wheel, A/C
1930 DeSoto CK Business Coupe- 350 Chevy Crate V8, 4-wheel disc brakes, TH400, S-10 Rear, Heidt's IFS, A/C
The 307 is a sbc I have never owned or really had any experience with. It has a freeze plug that was leaking and upon further investigation it literally crumbled. I'm not doubting it performance wise but my gut instinct is telling me to use the 350.
As far as breaking parts goes, if they break it probably needed an upgrade. The only weak link I really see is the transfer case and the rear Axles. I'm not sure the t case is a real concern. The buick odd fire was rated at 160hp and people modified them with cams and intakes with 4 barrel carbs along with headers. I would assume 200hp would be doable. Not to mention the fact that the 3 guys with jeeps I know have either sbc or sbf engines on stock drive trains. Advance adapters as well as a few other components make engine and trans adpeters for these Jeeps.
Mine is a factory v6 but has been adapted to a muncie car 4 speed and still keeps the original Dana 18 transfer case. The rear axle is a dana 44. From what I have gathered is that because it is a 2 piece axle that is keyed together at the hub is supposed to be the weak link.
I would like to believe that common sense and small tires would keep this thing together for a while. I could see doing burnouts and popping wheelies on the asphalt would definitely be a recipe for breaking stuff.
I think I've thought about it and I have a game plan. I just need to collect some parts and order some parts.
I wanted to do the small block chevy because 1 I do have most of it and 2 I'm familiar with them. The dauntless is just plain weird to me and parts are getting harder to find and more expensive.
On another note I really can't get into this project like I should. I don't feel it's my thing right now. I am in the middle of swapping out a new tilt column and swapping out the rag joint for a u joint and everything else in between. I'm waiting for a different 1" to 3/4" u joint in the mail to finish. Once I get the steering done I have headers and everything to do the exhaust. Depending on how I feel at that point I might just put it for sale.
I would like to get it drivable. I jumped into this project thinking it would be a simple quick process. Previous owners handy work has made it quite a slow frustrated mess. My patience has been pushed and I'm really just wanting my garage back at this point.
Ok, understood. Was just thinking being a 68 you have the shortnose...things get tight. Probably short H2O pump for sure. The 4.3 is a SBC minus 2 cylinders, so everything you know about V8 SBC still applies....mostly.
Short nose is still very doable. I work with 2 guys with short nose 1 sbc and sbf. Another guy has a flat fender with a sbf. Short water pump will definitely help. The 72 and newer grill bolts right in place of the Short nose style and the chevy style radiator swap radiator bolts directly to that. I'm running a buick with the muncie m22 so bell swap to chevy and build the front motor mounts where they fall in.
On paper sounds like a piece of cake lol. My front bumper was made from a heavy pieof rectangular tubing solid welded to the front of the frame. Front frame rails were fully boxed for the saginaw steering conversion. My plan for v8 motor mounts would probably be a tubular cross member like speedway sells. I think I could almost ditch the radiator/grill cross member if if wasn't for mounting the one bolt in the bottom grill. I could probably run a piece of flat stock for that and gain a ton of space for a long water pump.
I understand its very doable.....I've seen BBC in Cjs before. I really wanted the shortnose on my Cj8 to give the appearance of the front axle moved more forward (it is) for better approach.
A short water pump and electric fan (pancake motors) help with clearance issues.
I'd do some research and see what sort of HP and torque that your drive-train will hold up to. I tend to agree, that you are gonna break stuff. I bet that your trans, and transfer-case aren't up to the task.
Another choice would be a 231 Buick V6. It was a newer version of your motor. It would bolt right up and have a slight increase in power. This evolved in to the 3.8 that was used in FWD cars for forever and a day.
Before I put a SBC in, I'd look for an 85-86 4.3. I think those are the carbed years of the 4.3. You could always get a TBI 4.3 and put a carb on it.
Edited by Stinky on 09-05-23 10:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
My dad had a 69 cj5 with the 225 oddfire and (?) T90 3spd/D18....that thing would idle down to nothing for rpm, and was torquey! I would think a hop-up build might suit your needs....?
Edit: Interesting....per Novaks site, it a T14 3spd. in 1969. Explains the down low Tq and 1st gear ability. The oddfire had an 50lb flywheel and the T14 a 3.xx 1st gear ratio.
Unfortunately for me one of the previous owners swapped the factory transmission with the low first gear for a m22 muncie. I guess the muncie is good if you want to row through the gears like a hot rudder. The old crawler transmission is gone now.
Honestly I'm a hot rod guy too and crawling isn't me. My original goal was to get this project road worthy as a father son project. Later down the road or if the kid wasn't interested I was planning on doing street project out of it.
Honestly if it was 2 wheel drive and a wheelie machine I couldn't care less. The kid isn't impressing me at this point as far as getting it done. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow in my opinion. So if I can throw together a torquey small block that will make me smile I don't care.
Yes I have thought about the 4.3 and 3.8. My feelings are F that I'm going all in or at least be able to go all in with another sbc if it goes there. Some of the most fun vehicles I've owned are the most sketchy. I want to be able to smash the skinny pedal and actually scare myself from time to time.
Breaking parts not so fun but if the weak link breaks let's upgrade and run it again. One guy I work with has another flat fender he is willing to sell with a sbf in it. I was thinking about buying it and lowering it,throwing a sbc and a th350 without a tcase in it and making a street legal go kart ouf of it.
Just watched Hot Rod Garage with Alex and Lucky....working on an est 450bhp 4.3 Syclone build. Thought of your project.....
I had to stop watching TV shows like that a long time ago.
I have been struggling with everything I have done or tried to do with this jeep project. I have been working on the steering for the last 3 weekends. I got the new column in and finish mounted. The floor flange deal is a pain by yourself. The kid hasn't offered to help one time. I think at this point I'm tired of dealing with it and I will probably finish the steering, exhaust and wiring. I have everything to paint it as well. My goal is to finish what I have been working on and hopefully put a for sale sign on it by the beginning to middle of next month. I would be happy to get my money back at this point.
i would be more concerned about my kid than my ride. but thats just me being me. i used to do stuff with my kids every weekend and every chance i got. they were in high school and we were still doing stuff together. they just graduated college and we still go out to do stuff together when we get a chance.
70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.
I do stuff with my son all the time and I thought this might be a good project that would teach him something that most kids his age don't get a chance to do or learn. How many 14 year old kids in today's times know how to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission let alone probably even know what one is?
My goal in buying this project was only for us to spend more time together. Once it was safe and reliable I was planning on taking him to the local OHV park that is 10 minutes away from home so he could have an opportunity to gain some more skills while spending time with me.
If it's something that he is not interested in doing I'm not going to force him into it. Simple as that.
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