fritz1990
Dedicated Member
Posts: 6560
Age: 61
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
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03-18-23 06:41 PM - Post#2855906
In response to 65_Impala
Listen to 65Impala he is spot on! The quench and compression height is important to a good running engine. If you don’t know how to measure these things, ask. IMHO I would bore it, then you would have nice round bores. Don’t put new pistons in an out of round bore. My 5 cents.
Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.
Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1, 2007 C6 Love this one! Now have 2014 C7
Don't have a nervous come together!
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CNC BLOCKS N/E
Senior Member
Posts: 989
Loc: NORTH EAST
Reg: 12-12-03
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03-19-23 09:11 AM - Post#2855920
In response to Tony1963
There is no real way to measure alignment between housing bores follow the insurrections that come with you ARP kit
Torque plate hone is a must if you want to achieve good ring seal
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bobb
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6255
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
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03-19-23 12:24 PM - Post#2855924
In response to DuramaxLLY
i hope you are doing your homework. as noted quench is critical, as is piston design. dog dish pistons are junk junk junk. the heads and cam you choose will determine the rpm power band you end up with. look at vizard and holder vortec videos on you tube.
| 70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails. |
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-19-23 01:03 PM - Post#2855931
In response to 65_Impala
I've used cast flat-top pistons before without issues. But, I wasn't trying to build a 400 HP engine, either.
I suspect that he is looking for a budget upgrade in performance, thus, I steered him toward the cast piston if needed.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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1983G20Van
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3988
Loc: Hurst, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
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03-19-23 07:23 PM - Post#2855940
In response to DuramaxLLY
Alright finally got around to taking it to the machine shop. It’s already bored .30 over. I want to just hone it but if not we’ll go to .40.
Gonna keep the crank and rods. I’ll order some flat top hypereutectic pistons. Their weight will be about the same as stock so I shouldn’t need to rebalance.
I’ll ARP stud the bottom end. Line Hone is expensive so if the caps still line up nice I might skip that.
For heads, he recommended staying 185cc and below for better responsiveness on the street. Once I pick out a set of heads we’ll match the correct cam.
Now let’s see if I can stay under budget!
As for smaller than 185cc it is a pipe dream that they make more torque. I put 200cc advertised (more like 195cc in reality) aluminum heads on my old 350 Vortec in my heavy Express van when the garbage mexican Vortecs cracked. They made noticeably more power everywhere. When I built the 383 I had Lloyd Elliot port a set of those same heads for it. Up to about 210-215cc (varies a bit port to port). They flow ~300 cfm @ 0.600 and I have 0.578 lift. I make ~500 hp at the crank with a 218/228 @ 0.050 roller cam cut on a 108 LSA and it leaps to life. Loads of torque. The better the heads flow the smaller the cam can be to make a given power. The smaller the cam, the more off-idle torque, throttle response and fuel mileage you will have. The cam specs above make peak power at 5,600 rpm and peak torque about 3,500 rpm. Its over 500 ft/lbs at 3,500. The 383 moves my Express that weighs just shy of 7,000 lbs like it is 3,000 lbs lighter.
| 1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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03-20-23 04:26 AM - Post#2855948
In response to Tony1963
I've used cast flat-top pistons before without issues. But, I wasn't trying to build a 400 HP engine, either.
I suspect that he is looking for a budget upgrade in performance, thus, I steered him toward the cast piston if needed.
Which today is a hypereutectic piston. You obviously don't know what you're talking about anymore if you think cast pistons that are not hypereutectic is still a thing people should use.
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 Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2848
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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03-20-23 05:55 AM - Post#2855949
In response to 65_Impala
You can still buy "plain jane" cheaper regular cast pistons, next step up are the better Hypereutectic cast pistons that are superior to regular cast and can handle much more power. Pretty sure we all know this.
Edited by Shepherd on 03-20-23 05:56 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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03-20-23 08:46 AM - Post#2855950
In response to Shepherd
You can still buy "plain jane" cheaper regular cast pistons, next step up are the better Hypereutectic cast pistons that are superior to regular cast and can handle much more power. Pretty sure we all know this.
Enlighten me then. Where do you get a 4.030" bore, 1.56" compression height cast piston then that are so much cheaper than a set of hypereutectic it's even worth considering them?
Sets of 8 Hypereutectic pistons for a 350 start at around $195.
Sets of 8 cast non hypereutectic pistons for a 350 start at around $180 and they have the wrong compression height.
I never said plain cast pistons are no longer available.
But, it is complete stupidity to use plain cast pistons in a 350 small block build that you are doing as a performance build.
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Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2848
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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03-20-23 10:29 AM - Post#2855958
In response to 65_Impala
I would never use basic cast pistons in any build, I wasn't challenging anyone's ideas, just info in case someone wasn't aware of the different types of cast pistons.
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-20-23 03:45 PM - Post#2855967
In response to 65_Impala
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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03-20-23 04:41 PM - Post#2855970
In response to Tony1963
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
You post wrong information and when it is pointed out to be wrong you double down on your claims. Post foolish crap and you'll get called for it. What else do you expect?
Again, hypereutectic pistons are CAST pistons. They are the type of cast piston almost every manufacturer makes as the standard ones to use, and it has been that way for about 15-20 years now.
You post like hypereutectic pistons are big dollars. They aren't. They also aren't for high HP, high compression builds either.
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Rick_L
Member #409
Posts: 28040
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
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03-20-23 04:50 PM - Post#2855972
In response to Tony1963
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
Maybe they don't have a "right" to it, but they also deserve to not hear misinformation from you.
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-20-23 05:00 PM - Post#2855973
In response to Rick_L
There is no "misinformation". Basic cast pistons do exist and they are fine. The OEM used them for years.
While you may not agree, that does not justify the hostility.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-20-23 06:23 PM - Post#2855979
In response to 65_Impala
You have choices. If the basic cast piston was "good enough" for muscle-car era production, it is a reasonable choice today.
However, spend your money as you see fit.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/after mark...
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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Rick_L
Member #409
Posts: 28040
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
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03-20-23 06:29 PM - Post#2855981
In response to Tony1963
There is no "misinformation"
It's not just this thread, it's just about every post you make, you get something wrong or just take a contrary view when it's OT or just not necessary.
I'll say it again, you may have a "right" to say that, but the rest "deserve" not to have to read that crap.
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-21-23 02:38 AM - Post#2855985
In response to Rick_L
I don't need to read your crap either.
The OP comes here and is looking for a budget build. There was a suggestion to pursue a build that is closer to 300 HP and reuse many of the existing parts.
Since there is concern about a budget build, I suggested basic cast pistons and I'm standing by that recommendation.
The article cited indicates that cast pistons are acceptable and were used during the muscle car era. While the recommendation was given, the OP can do what he or she sees fit with the information. That is the purpose of this discussion.
Adding hostility to the discussion does not add credibility to your points.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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03-21-23 04:37 AM - Post#2855989
In response to Tony1963
People have the right to come to this board...
You actually don't have any rights when it comes to this board. Not a single right.
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japete92
Posts: 2092
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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03-21-23 06:47 AM - Post#2855990
In response to 65_Impala
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
You post wrong information and when it is pointed out to be wrong you double down on your claims. Post foolish crap and you'll get called for it. What else do you expect?
Again, hypereutectic pistons are CAST pistons. They are the type of cast piston almost every manufacturer makes as the standard ones to use, and it has been that way for about 15-20 years now.
You post like hypereutectic pistons are big dollars. They aren't. They also aren't for high HP, high compression builds either.
More of his misleading, false, posted info:
'...EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT...'
Tony 1963, aka tony 1963, aka Mercedes is a health care executive (read his bio) who once owned a used car business that specialized in high end foreign car (his own words).
In the context of his sentence, "I" means he did it himself; not had an employee do the work and merely paid for the parts and labor. He (by any name) words his posts as if he is a mechanical expert with hands on experience. Y'all decide for yourselves if his posts are lies. He is certainly a 'wanna be' car guy; but shows no 'under the hood' experience.
His BS has been going on in this forum since 2009! When he gets embarrassed enough he changes his name and starts again.
Pete
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-21-23 07:39 AM - Post#2855992
In response to japete92
That's your opinion. I assure you, I give it no regard.
I would say that most of these board members would have loved to have owned their own independent dealership for 20 years.
And, yes, I have personally assembled SBC engines with my own hands in the past, about ten of them.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
Edited by Tony1963 on 03-21-23 08:00 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rcr3
Site Ambassador -"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3800
Age: 71
Loc: MANHEIM PA. U.S.A.
Reg: 11-24-02
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03-22-23 05:30 AM - Post#2856019
In response to japete92
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
You post wrong information and when it is pointed out to be wrong you double down on your claims. Post foolish crap and you'll get called for it. What else do you expect?
Again, hypereutectic pistons are CAST pistons. They are the type of cast piston almost every manufacturer makes as the standard ones to use, and it has been that way for about 15-20 years now.
You post like hypereutectic pistons are big dollars. They aren't. They also aren't for high HP, high compression builds either.
More of his misleading, false, posted info:
'...EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT...'
Tony 1963, aka tony 1963, aka Mercedes is a health care executive (read his bio) who once owned a used car business that specialized in high end foreign car (his own words).
In the context of his sentence, "I" means he did it himself; not had an employee do the work and merely paid for the parts and labor. He (by any name) words his posts as if he is a mechanical expert with hands on experience. Y'all decide for yourselves if his posts are lies. He is certainly a 'wanna be' car guy; but shows no 'under the hood' experience.
His BS has been going on in this forum since 2009! When he gets embarrassed enough he changes his name and starts again.
Pete
AND his neighbor is a design engineer for Bmw!!!!!!!!!
'67 Camaro survivor
'06 Z71 Sierra Ex Cab
'37 Chevy cp.SOLD!!6/7/14
'00 S10 Ex Cab BUILT FOR EVERYDAY,NOT JUST THE HOLIDAYS
'73 Nova pro-street project
'17 Chevy Trax LT
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japete92
Posts: 2092
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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03-22-23 06:08 AM - Post#2856022
In response to rcr3
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
You post wrong information and when it is pointed out to be wrong you double down on your claims. Post foolish crap and you'll get called for it. What else do you expect?
Again, hypereutectic pistons are CAST pistons. They are the type of cast piston almost every manufacturer makes as the standard ones to use, and it has been that way for about 15-20 years now.
You post like hypereutectic pistons are big dollars. They aren't. They also aren't for high HP, high compression builds either.
More of his misleading, false, posted info:
'...EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT...'
Tony 1963, aka tony 1963, aka Mercedes is a health care executive (read his bio) who once owned a used car business that specialized in high end foreign car (his own words).
In the context of his sentence, "I" means he did it himself; not had an employee do the work and merely paid for the parts and labor. He (by any name) words his posts as if he is a mechanical expert with hands on experience. Y'all decide for yourselves if his posts are lies. He is certainly a 'wanna be' car guy; but shows no 'under the hood' experience.
His BS has been going on in this forum since 2009! When he gets embarrassed enough he changes his name and starts again.
Pete
AND his neighbor is a design engineer for Bmw!!!!!!!!!
WOW. That's helpful in Chevy Talk; especially for the vintage models and trucks. Maybe he will change his name to 'BMW' next. 
I just very quickly to a gander at all the sub forums of Chevy Talk he posts in. He really thinks he's an expert on EVERYTHING. 
And I bet his employer does not know how much time he spends viewing car porn on company time.
Perhaps we should be kinder and view his loneliness and need for attention as an infliction that needs professional help. :tongue :
Pete
Edited by japete92 on 03-22-23 06:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rcr3
Site Ambassador -"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3800
Age: 71
Loc: MANHEIM PA. U.S.A.
Reg: 11-24-02
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03-22-23 06:22 AM - Post#2856024
In response to japete92
I really do not understand all of the vile hostility that is on this board. Yes, you can still get basic cast pistons, which I used in EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT and never had an issue.
People have the right to come to this board and express a view without being belittled or torn to shreads.
You post wrong information and when it is pointed out to be wrong you double down on your claims. Post foolish crap and you'll get called for it. What else do you expect?
Again, hypereutectic pistons are CAST pistons. They are the type of cast piston almost every manufacturer makes as the standard ones to use, and it has been that way for about 15-20 years now.
You post like hypereutectic pistons are big dollars. They aren't. They also aren't for high HP, high compression builds either.
More of his misleading, false, posted info:
'...EVERY SINGLE SMALL BLOCK I EVER BUILT...'
Tony 1963, aka tony 1963, aka Mercedes is a health care executive (read his bio) who once owned a used car business that specialized in high end foreign car (his own words).
In the context of his sentence, "I" means he did it himself; not had an employee do the work and merely paid for the parts and labor. He (by any name) words his posts as if he is a mechanical expert with hands on experience. Y'all decide for yourselves if his posts are lies. He is certainly a 'wanna be' car guy; but shows no 'under the hood' experience.
His BS has been going on in this forum since 2009! When he gets embarrassed enough he changes his name and starts again.
Pete
AND his neighbor is a design engineer for Bmw!!!!!!!!!
WOW. That's helpful in Chevy Talk; especially for the vintage models and trucks. Maybe he will change his name to 'BMW' next.
I just very quickly to a gander at all the sub forums of Chevy Talk he posts in. He really thinks he's an expert on EVERYTHING.
And I bet his employer does not know how much time he spends viewing car porn on company time.
Perhaps we should be kinder and view his loneliness and need for attention as an infliction that needs professional help. :tongue :
Pete
 Like!
'67 Camaro survivor
'06 Z71 Sierra Ex Cab
'37 Chevy cp.SOLD!!6/7/14
'00 S10 Ex Cab BUILT FOR EVERYDAY,NOT JUST THE HOLIDAYS
'73 Nova pro-street project
'17 Chevy Trax LT
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Rick_L
Member #409
Posts: 28040
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
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03-22-23 08:35 AM - Post#2856028
In response to rcr3
tony1963 is just a troll.
No matter what we say, we can't seem to shame him into not posting his BS. He feeds on it while he whines and keeps coming back.
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 Magnetocheck
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 89
Age: 68
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Reg: 09-05-22
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03-22-23 09:38 AM - Post#2856029
In response to Rick_L
I've got no dog in this fight, but if the moderators think anyone is doing more harm than good, can't they agree to just block him?
Bob
'65 Impala SS 396 Convertible |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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03-22-23 12:00 PM - Post#2856037
In response to Tony1963
The shitty cast pistons that could save money on for a build today are NOTHING like the factory cast pistons from the muscle-car era.
If you actually read the article, it is mostly talking about using hypereutectic pistons. There is a paragraph about cast pistons then the rest talks about hypereutectic pistons.
drum brakes were "good enough"
bias ply tires were "good enough"
no overdrive transmissions were "good enough"
Good enough doesn't mean anything. That reasoning isn't how you justify using any of that technology today.
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bobb
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6255
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
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03-26-23 11:22 AM - Post#2856147
In response to 65_Impala
uh, no self respecting car guy/girl would rebuild an engine with cast pistons. lol
| 70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails. |
Edited by bobb on 03-26-23 11:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2072
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
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03-26-23 02:40 PM - Post#2856151
In response to bobb
I understand your concerns. My suggestions were based upon the OP indicating that there were budget considerations and was going to be reusing many of the lower end parts.
The OP can make their own decision about pistons from all of the perspectives shared here.
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
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