 RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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01-17-23 12:41 PM - Post#2853494
I am still having the issue of the front brakes pulling to the left when first applying the brakes. I have drum brakes front and back. The whole brake system has been replaced. The front suspension has been rebuilt and lined up. If I put a little pressure on the pedal before applying the brakes it will stop straight. Seems like the right front brake takes a second longer to start to catch. I am thinking of installing a residual valve between the master cylinder and the junction block for the front and read lines. My car has a single master cylinder and there is no valve in it. The line from the master to the junction is 1/4". all other lines are 3/16. I purchased a residual valve but it came with fittings for 3/16 line. Has anyone installed one of these valves? Would it be ok to replace the 3/16 fittings with 1/4" and install the valve? Thanks for any advise. Russ
Edited by RATHD on 01-17-23 12:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 DHMelton
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
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01-17-23 02:07 PM - Post#2853497
In response to RATHD
Before dicking up your brake system, have you (as previously suggested).
Verified that the new shoes are correctly arced to the brake drums?
IIRC, you swapped brake shoes AND the drum, from r/l to l/r in front? Did it still pull to teh left?
Did you swap just drums leaving the brake shoes in place and it still pulled to the left?
Have you VERFIED your brake adjusters are working and you did 15 or so low speed, hit brakes hard in reverse to let the adjusters do their thing? (I know its supposed to work in both forward and reverse.)
Doug
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 Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2846
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
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01-17-23 02:08 PM - Post#2853498
In response to RATHD
Are you sure your Mc has no internal valve, use a 1/8 drill shank, lightly push into the outlet port on the Mc, you would feel some back pressure if it has a residual valve. That will not correct a brake pull though. Unmatched return springs can cause this, mispositioned shoes, is the area of the backing plates where the shoes ride lightly lubricated?. Lotta issues can cause this. As DhMelton mentioned, if one or both drums where resurfaced, you would loose concentric shoe contact unless arc surfacing the shoes to match the drum radius was done.
Edited by Shepherd on 01-17-23 02:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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DHMelton
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
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01-17-23 03:13 PM - Post#2853501
In response to Shepherd
Yeah, there are diff springs front/rear shoes, or should be.
Having two rear springs on one side and two fronts on the otehr isn't optimum.
Doug
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RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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01-17-23 10:55 PM - Post#2853507
In response to DHMelton
Brake drums where turned and switched from side to side. Shoes where arched and switched also. New spring kits and switched also.New rubber lines and switched.New master and all metal lines. Two sets of front wheel cylinders. Backing plates are ok. Blocked off rear brakes to verify fronts where the problem.There is no valve in the master cylinder. So far nothing has changed.Thanks for the suggestions.
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DHMelton
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
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01-18-23 07:48 AM - Post#2853512
In response to RATHD
Did it pull before you replaced all this stuff?
If it pulls to the same side even after switching drums/shoes to the other side, and if both wheel cylinders are same size, its in you hard lines, or one of the T blocks.
Doug
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japete92
Posts: 2092
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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01-18-23 08:48 AM - Post#2853513
In response to RATHD
Brake drums where turned and switched from side to side. Shoes where arched and switched also. New spring kits and switched also.New rubber lines and switched.New master and all metal lines. Two sets of front wheel cylinders. Backing plates are ok. Blocked off rear brakes to verify fronts where the problem.There is no valve in the master cylinder. So far nothing has changed.Thanks for the suggestions.
You have yet to identify the configuration of the shoes that are installed.
Are they the correct width for the front? the rear? If they are the same width, they are wrong (same for the drums).
Are they different 'lengths' within a given wheel? i.e. Is the shoe facing the front of the car 'shorter' than the one facing the rear? They are installed wrong if the shorter shoe is not facing the front. Are they the same length? If so they are the wrong shoes.
I ask these questions because I have seen vendors advertise their shoes are for these cars but they are either equal widths, or equal lengths, or both. Such shoes are wrong.
As has been stated previously, the correct shoes need to be manually adjusted first and then 'self adjusted' for fine tuning and maintaining adjustment. Self adjust by pumping the brakes vigorously while moving backwards.
The residual pressure valve (approx 10 psi) is (in my opinion) required for proper operation. Don't have one? Add one.
Just some thoughts.
Pete
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RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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01-18-23 10:44 AM - Post#2853517
In response to japete92
I was not aware there was different spring kits for the front and rear brakes. I will have to check them. Do you know how to tell the difference between them? I may still install a residual valve in the line from the master to the junction block to see if it helps. Thanks again for the info.
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japete92
Posts: 2092
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
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01-18-23 01:50 PM - Post#2853522
In response to RATHD
I was not aware there was different spring kits for the front and rear brakes. I will have to check them. Do you know how to tell the difference between them? I may still install a residual valve in the line from the master to the junction block to see if it helps. Thanks again for the info.
My comments were regarding different 'SHOES'. The front shoes are wider than the rear. So are the front drums. AND, within any individual wheel's brakes, the SHOES are different lengths (see my previous comments).
Pete
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Oshawa65SS
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1221
Age: 62
Loc: Grande Prairie AB & N...
Reg: 09-22-14
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01-18-23 02:58 PM - Post#2853525
In response to RATHD
Here's some specs to review:
Ryan
65 Impala SS Evening Orchid convertible 283 2V, PG, 10 bolt 3.08 open by PO, originally 3.36
Build date Dec. 21 '64 Oshawa |
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DHMelton
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
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01-18-23 08:59 PM - Post#2853529
In response to Oshawa65SS
Brake springs have nothing to do with front or rear brakes.
There is one spring for the front brake shoe,and another spring for the rear brake shoe.
That applies on all four corners and all front shoe springs are the same,and all rear brake shoe springs are the same.
They are (were) different colors so you could tell them apart.
Doug
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fritz1990
Dedicated Member
Posts: 6560
Age: 61
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
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01-19-23 11:39 AM - Post#2853543
In response to DHMelton
Sounds like you have a bad right front hose or a restriction in it.
Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.
Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1, 2007 C6 Love this one! Now have 2014 C7
Don't have a nervous come together!
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shoeboxpaul
Newbie
Posts: 25
Age: 74
Loc: New Freedom, PA
Reg: 08-15-16
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01-23-23 08:18 PM - Post#2853664
In response to DHMelton
Grinding the shoes to fit the drums sounds like a good idea on the surface. I used to have a complete Aamco brake lathe for disc and drum plus it had the arc grinder. There is a problem in doing this. The brake shoe is located by the pin on the backing plate where the return springs attach and the grinder locates the shoes by clamping on the side. I stopped doing this and also stopped using relined brake shoes. If the core is not right, it can grind the lining not on center. I experienced this a few times with Raybestos relined shoes and when I replaced them with new shoes, all pulling and locking up disappeared. I always had the most issues with pulling due to relined shoes. My suggestion would be to see where the contact is taking place on the lining. If at the leading edge, the lining is not centered to the spindle.
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RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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01-29-23 05:19 PM - Post#2853893
In response to shoeboxpaul
Thanks for the information. I have installed two sets of shoes. They were from the local auto parts store. They looked like new ones, but I am not sure. I just replaced the left wheel cylinder again because it started to leak but where was no fluid on the shoes. I have installed a residual valve at the master cylinder and bled the brakes. I will have to wait on better weather to see if it helped.
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bobb
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6254
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
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01-29-23 05:29 PM - Post#2853894
In response to RATHD
as noted sounds like a bad right hose or line. did you replace the hose and blow the line out?
| 70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails. |
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RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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01-30-23 12:16 PM - Post#2853926
In response to bobb
Hoses were replaced and switched from side to side with no change. Shoes were also switched and still had pull to left.
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bigbowtielover
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2727
Loc: Surrey British Columbia
Reg: 09-01-13
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02-19-23 10:07 AM - Post#2854699
In response to RATHD
Check tierods and draglink etc for any wear or looseness. Also check strutrod bushings . I have had pulling issues that were solved with some new parts in steering and strutrods. Check alignment too. One of my cars had toe out too far and caused some diving on hard braking. It also had worn out strutrod bushings on one side.
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Brickwhite
Contributor
Posts: 306
Loc: Colorado
Reg: 09-05-19
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03-07-23 11:44 AM - Post#2855467
In response to bigbowtielover
just did my rears..
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RATHD
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 84
Reg: 06-29-11
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03-19-23 10:17 AM - Post#2855922
In response to Brickwhite
I have installed the residual valve and the brakes are a lot better. I will have to drive the car some more when the weather is better. Thanks for all of the information.
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