Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!

Classic Performance Products Nu-Relics Power Windows
American Auto Wire Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & Custom
Danchuk Catalog



 Page 2 of 2 <12
Username Post: 1980 3.8 won't start        (Topic#369850)
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7945

Age: 45
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
11-14-22 10:51 AM - Post#2850063    
    In response to ranman

Shows a 229 and 231 3.8, it appears the 229 was Chevrolet 3.8, and 231 was Buick 3.8.

On rock auto no cam available for the 229, if that’s his engine guess selling car to someone who wants to swap a 350 or LS engine would be about only choice.

Do you know which engine it is?

Too bad he won’t have transportation.



 


ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-14-22 09:34 PM - Post#2850084    
    In response to 1965C-10

It's the 229. Replacing the cam would mean pulling the engine. Add on the gearsand might as well get an oil pump, maybe rod and main bearings.....maybe hone the cylinders. Might as well boil the block and install new cam bearings....
If there was metal bypassing the oil filter, who knows where the damage stops.
Just too many what ifs at this point. He doesn't have the space even if that was an option.
I adjusted the rockers tonight. Tomorrow, he can put to rocker covers back on and we can make some sort of progress.
Will it run? Trying for it this weekend.

I'll pass on the aftermath Or the temporary

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


Edited by ranman on 11-14-22 09:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-19-22 08:51 PM - Post#2850251    
    In response to ranman

Ok....almost went well.
I'd adjusted all the rockers and only added 1/2 a turn. Told him it was good enough ant he could reinstall the rocker covers, hoses plugs etc.
It actually started and idled ok, but there's a clatter on the passenger side. I knew they were all adjusted close enough, so I'm rationalizing and wondering if a collapsed lifter could be the cause...... I'm scrating my head. How can comething be catering?
He fessed up and told be he thought that I addjusted a couple of them too tight, because a few of the pushrods wouldn't spin..... So he backed them off till they did.
Ok, he's taking that cover off again and I'll readjust them. It's a real pain because of a big wire loom, heater hoses etc, but he's doing it. I'm just gonna readjust the valves.
The engine started easily and idled nicely.
It pops when he begins to raise the RPM.
M hoping he loosened up the rocker nuts way too much and adjusting them fixes the pop.
I know two of the lobes a very heavily worn. I'm hoping that after readjusting this bank it runs well enough to sell it. I think #1 lobe only lifts about 20% as much as it should.
I'm only hoping for a couple hundred miles of in town use so he can sell it. I wish I could show images of the cam lobes taken with my boroscope.
With high zinc racing oil, how long can a worn out cam lobe live? It's not lifting much at all and the spring pressure probably isn't much.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1786

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
11-20-22 11:26 AM - Post#2850276    
    In response to ranman

If the cam lobes are worn, the wear will inhibit lift and cause certain running problems.

I doubt that the engine is worth any significant work but if you are handy, changing parts in the Chevrolet 229 V6 is like working on a small block Chevrolet. The Buick 231 V6 is another animal.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6189

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
11-20-22 11:42 AM - Post#2850279    
    In response to ranman

if oil pressure is down run higher viscocity oil like a straight 50 or 60 if its not cold there. stick some rare earth magnets on the oil filter and oil pan bottom. 1/4 thick 1 1/2 round ones on the bottom and the 1/2 square sticks are what i like. you will be surprised at how long it may last. basicly till the bearing die or the last few lobes round off. i would go 1/4 turn to try ease a bit of preload off the cam. jmo.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-20-22 12:44 PM - Post#2850284    
    In response to bobb

Thanks guys I really, really appreciate the advice and recommendations.
The guy swears by his DELO 400 10/40
I think it's CK 4/SN
Now he just wants to add some STP because he sees "zinc" on the bottle. I'm kinda doubting it has much zinc.
I'd rather he used Valvoline 15/50 racing oil or Mobile 15/50. Both probably have a lot better engineering than Betty home maker.

I just figure if it runs enough to drive a mile to the store, the extra $40 is worth the gamble.
On the two badly worn lobes, I was thinking of using 1.6 rockers ????
Well, he took it apart, so I'm heading over to sheck out the rockers and adjust them.
I hope what he did was obvious so I can have some confidence in our final attempt.
Let me know what you think about my oil idea.
I'm thinking some high zinc oil is worth it if the engine actually runs decent. I'd did idle well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-20-22 12:49 PM - Post#2850285    
    In response to ranman

For what it's worth, the low temperatures here on the Oregon coast are in the mid 30's and highs this time of year, 50 to 55.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6189

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
11-20-22 02:37 PM - Post#2850290    
    In response to ranman

as i understand it delo 400 truck oil does not have enough anti scuff stuff in it. dodono what that means but i would look at high milage or race oils 20/50. no 1.6 rockers waste of money. imo the magnets are worth more and can be removed when the engine dies. just got this
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


Edited by bobb on 11-20-22 02:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-20-22 04:29 PM - Post#2850296    
    In response to bobb

Thanks, I appreciate that.
Well let's just call the engine dead. It's still idols so it may be possible he can just back it out of the garage but he's not driving it around anywhere. After readjusting the rockers, the clicking sound is gone and now I hear a knocking sound. The car is jacked up with the wheels off because that's the best way to change the spark plugs. With the wheels off and the engine running, the knocking sound is about the same listening from either side.
So after all this, it wasn't the timing chain. Two of the valves don't open very far and that still causes a small backfire when you start to rev the engine up. Tiny backfire, not flames and a big kaboom.
He's having a garage door installed on December 1st so having the car running I think will allow him to idle it out to the street because they don't want to work in there with a car.
What is a 1980 Monte Carlo worth. Yes, it even runs. ????
For a person that wanted one of these you probably couldn't find a better one. The frame doesn't have rust on it and even the exhaust manifold bolts look clean with only surface rust on them. The entire underside of the car is clean and no Rusty body panels. Even the factory pinstriping is in beautiful condition. Over the years he's had a lot of offers on the car just because it's so clean. Anyone buying this would want a stuff of 350 in it anyway but not having a good running engine is going to kill the value.
I don't know where to begin checking around to find out what the car is worth, but I'm betting it all depends on where you live.
Anyway it runs but we're not going to do any more work on it. It would be nice to find a $500 used motor somewhere, something we could put a carburetor on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-20-22 11:49 PM - Post#2850303    
    In response to ranman

While I'm here.....
....what's the procedure for removing a 350 from a 1977 Chevy van? Mine is setting. The roof/windshield is too rusty to replace the windshield. I do have an engine for him.... Including a th350 tranny.
It has over 250,000 miles on it, but it runs. I replaced the timing chain, oil pump, water pump, fuel pump 5 or 7 years ago.
He'd need a new exhaust connection.
Not sure about the transmission linkage or throttle cable.
I'd give him the engine, so he'd only be out the linkages and exhaust connection stuff.
Crazy idea?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1786

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
11-21-22 02:28 PM - Post#2850326    
    In response to ranman

It is a shame that you can't rebuild the engine. I assume that we are talking about the 229 Chevrolet V6 and I checked a supplier that I used 30 years ago. Nada - nothing for that engine to rebuild.

I could not find a rebuild kit and I would think you need to find a good cam. Putting new lifters on a used cam is risky, but what other options are there?

Installing a 350 is doable, but the transmission from that era won't handle much HP.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-23-22 11:09 AM - Post#2850388    
    In response to Tony1963

If we could find a running engine that has the transmission, that would be ideal. I've researched his transmission and agree, it wouldn't be a good idea.
I'm just thinking a carbed 350 would be ideal. I'm thinking the driveshaft would need modifying. Maybe the transmission cables too.
A 4.3 would be good too, but are intakes available to adapt to a carburetor. Then he'd have a roller cam and he could stop playing oil chemist.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1786

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
11-23-22 04:33 PM - Post#2850404    
    In response to ranman

I know that this is a long shot, but if you could find a Chevrolet 267 V8 from the era, it would be a much easier swap. Total power is about the same and mostly the same layout as another small block.

Also, I'd try getting a local yard to check for the 229 V6 availability - you might get lucky.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1786

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
11-23-22 05:00 PM - Post#2850405    
    In response to ranman

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255803917644?hash =item3b8...



People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6189

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
11-24-22 10:30 AM - Post#2850436    
    In response to ranman

basic unbolt everything. yank the rad an cut the rad brace with a hacksaw. bend the brace forward and geta piece of plywood to form a ramp. drag it out. havent done this with the trans on. or, unbolt the front x member and drop the whole thing out the bottom. much easier if you have a forklift or sometning like that.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


Edited by bobb on 11-24-22 10:32 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-25-22 01:26 AM - Post#2850466    
    In response to Tony1963

That's strange, there must only be one of them cuz I looked on Craigslist and that's the same one I found. ????
I live in Oregon so it'll be traveling from coast to coast. I'm checking tomorrow at a place in Oregon called B&r Auto wrecking. They pick up parts all up and down the state and deliver them. If they had an engine for the same price you wouldn't be paying very much for delivery.
I'd rather he find a 4.3 with roller rockers than the original engine but then it would also be nice to have the transmission attached so he wouldn't have to rely on the hydromatic transmission that's currently in the car. His brother came to visit him for Thanksgiving, maybe he threw him something bucks to help him out. Probably not but it would be a nice thought. ????

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-25-22 01:30 AM - Post#2850467    
    In response to bobb

Problem with my van is that it's in the backyard so even getting a cherry picker near it would be impossible. It would have to be loaded on a truck and towed somewhere to pull it out. I'm going to help the guy by looking around and I've also called a couple friends and told them to be on the lookout for another used engine.
The other problem with my van is twofold. The van is outdoors, this is winter, I don't have a way to get the engine out and I'd be doing all the work to get his old engine out in another engine in.
That's something I could do if I had time but I don't. It's just a messy situation. A cherry picker would work in his garage to remove his motor and I have access to one through friends.
We're just going to have to sit tight and see what miracle appears.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1786

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
11-26-22 03:39 PM - Post#2850559    
    In response to ranman

https://www.edelbrock.com/performer-plus-camsha ft-...

I am not an expert on these V6 engines so someone with more knowledge would have to help. Seems that camshafts are available and replacing the cam and lifters seems cheap enough. Replacing the timing chain and gears is cheap too.

This would probably keep the thing on the road for a long time.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


Edited by Tony1963 on 11-26-22 03:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ranman 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 10932
ranman
Loc: The cold wet and windy O...
Reg: 03-10-01
11-29-22 07:24 PM - Post#2850725    
    In response to Tony1963

Thanks, but after setting the rockers that cured the lifter tick. I was now able to hear what sounds to be a rod knock. Sound is coming from the side of the block or the oil pan. The knock sounds the same listening though the wheel well on rather side.
I wish I had a shop so I could take it apart and see what's worth salvaging. If a rod cap is loose, the rods probably damaged. Can you get a new rod that weighs the same?
If so, why being that deep, not change all the rod and main bearings?
The engine surely has metallic crap all throughout the engine. Might as well clean the inside of the engine, the crank and block passages?
How about the cam bearings?
No way would I go that deep without replacing the oil pump.
The piston walls have some scuffing too. Re-hone and new rings?
Add good oil and break in oil, then replace that with good, high zinc oil at least for the first 500 miles.
There are so many what ifs. If it was mine and I had a place to mess with it, I'd surely take it apart before making the next decision. I haven't checked the price of a short or long block.
The car is worth saving. How many 45 year old cars are there with good original paint and no rust? ...and I mean NO rust. He would go so far as taking his jack with him down to the car wash, jack it up on each side to clean the underside.
It would them return to the garage. It was never parked outside it's entire life.
Just a messy situation, especially money wise.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If plants ruled the world, would they regulate oxygen?


 


 Page 2 of 2 <12
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

985 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.136 seconds.   Total Queries: 17   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 06:25 PM
Top