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Username Post: 1984 MC SS Upgrading stock 302        (Topic#369199)
Ellaruth1 
Newbie
Posts: 2

Reg: 08-14-22
08-14-22 04:41 PM - Post#2845919    

Hi all, i have read alot about the maladies of the stock monte carlo ss 302, such as getting rid of it and replacing it with a 350, use it as a boat anchor. Guess i'm stubborn and think there is resonably good reason that 290hp can be coaxed out of it. Then i got to thinking what is the difference between the 1969 z28 302 and my 1984 mc ss 302? How could i build my stock 302 into what chevy built in 1969. Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas about this. Thanks.



 




wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15691

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
08-14-22 07:26 PM - Post#2845925    
    In response to Ellaruth1

What you have is a 305, not a 302. Pretty much a completely different animal. While they are both 1st generation small blocks, they have very little in common.. The 305 was born in the mid 70s as a smog motor. Even as a “high output” motor it was a bit of a dog. You can get good power out of it, but honestly it probably isn’t worth the effort.
The 302 was a 327 block with a 283 crank. Meaning it was a large bore/short stroke motor that meant you could wind it up to high rpm’s.
You’d be better served by getting a good used 350 block and building a new motor with some aftermarket heads. Or doing an LS swap.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
Ellaruth1 
Newbie
Posts: 2

Reg: 08-14-22
08-15-22 07:37 AM - Post#2845941    
    In response to wagonman100

Thanks Jay. I must have been having a brain moment regarding my 305 L69. Anyway, the best investment for me at the moment has been a good tune up, carb rebuild, all new brakes, replacement of suspensionbushings, wheel alignment, new trans pan as the old one was leaking, under carriage cleaning to find and fix leaks, new tires, new exhaust with flowmaster,repaired a/c and vaccum canister, new headlights, and new headliner. Makes for a good driver and show and shine events.



 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
08-15-22 01:15 PM - Post#2845954    
    In response to Ellaruth1

The 302 was designed due to racing rules limiting the displacement to 302. There is nothing magical about the 302 other than the nostalgia that goes with it.

I agree that a 350 will perform better and much cheaper to build.

However, if you want double the HP with half the fuel consumption, the LS swap is the way to go. Those Gen 1 engines are getting pretty long in the tooth.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15691

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
08-15-22 08:00 PM - Post#2845971    
    In response to Tony1963

Actually the displacement limit was 305 and the 4.00 inch bore from the 327 block and 3.00 inch stroke of the 283 crank made the displacement 302.4.
I wholeheartedly disagree that the 302 was nothing special. How many stock engines from back then could you wind up to over 7,500 RPM and not double the amount of parts in them? I had a friend that had a ‘69 Z/28 race car that he regularly wound the engine up over 8,000 RPM and it held together. And to get that much power from that small of a displacement was unheard of. They were basically the LS motor of their day. But far fewer of them were produced.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3970

Loc: Hurst, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
08-18-22 11:11 AM - Post#2846091    
    In response to wagonman100

I have a LS swapped vehicle and other than the fact I got a running 6.0L for $400 I personally would not waste my time. A later Vortec 350 with cheap aluminum heads and a cam upgrade will run circles around a cammed 6.0L for less money. The Gen1 small block may be long in tooth but for good reason. They are durable, cheap and make awesome power where you need it in normal driving. I get tired of having to rev the 6.0L to 4,000+ rpm just to get a little acceleration out of it. Without boost, I would not waste my time on a LS.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 08-18-22 11:12 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6120

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
08-21-22 10:16 AM - Post#2846215    
    In response to Ellaruth1

if your going to build an engine i would go with a 383. if your going to buy a running engine then maybe a 350, 383, or 400. cubic inches = torque. thats what you feel when driving around. dont look at hp numbers they mean nothing. look at torque numbers. torque is what will set you back in your seat and make you have a stupid grin on your face.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
Shepherd 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2692

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
08-21-22 05:30 PM - Post#2846230    
    In response to bobb

Yup



 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
08-29-22 04:09 PM - Post#2846500    
    In response to wagonman100

You are correct in that the limit was actually 5.0 liters which translates into roughly 305 cubic inches.



People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15691

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
08-30-22 07:27 PM - Post#2846547    
    In response to bobb

As the saying goes: “You drive torque, you sell horsepower.”

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5563
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
09-12-22 07:05 AM - Post#2847210    
    In response to wagonman100

fwiw

  • Quote:
No such thing as a "302 block" - it's the same block used for many other applications; the only thing that makes it a "302" is the crank, rods, pistons, cam, and heads assembled to it, and the suffix code stamped on the pad later - there's nothing "special" about the block.

by JohnZ (former 1st generation GM Camaro Engineer)




Mike
2021 GMC 4WD Sierra Denali CC 6.2L/10-sp
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower


 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15691

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
09-12-22 04:11 PM - Post#2847234    
    In response to elcamino

Exactly. It was a 327 block with a 283 crank. The first ones were small journal cranks and later they used a large journal crank. Technically since bore and stroke are the main factors in displacement, the block (bore size) and crank (stroke length) are the only things that make it a 302. The rest of the components are what make it a DZ 302.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
gcrkfrd 
"6th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 427
gcrkfrd
Age: 75
Loc: Neosho, MO.
Reg: 04-01-18
09-20-22 09:34 AM - Post#2847570    
    In response to wagonman100

A 305 in your garage, is a lot better than a small block on E-bay, or Craigs List. You at least know what you have. Remember, if you buy a cam, intake and exhaust manifolds, and Carb, oil pump, timing chain, lifters, push rods, distributor, you can use those parts on other small blocks, made for Thirty Years. Its a Small Block Thing. 265-283-305-327-350-400

1952 Styleline Sedan, 62-235, Drum brakes, Manual steering, 2" Drop, 8-60 AC, Glass packs, Two Carbs, and a Cast Iron PowerGlide-
Way out behind the Old School

Half a Dozen in a Row, all it needs for Her to go.


 




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