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Username Post: Whats up with all the Nascar penalties?        (Topic#368045)
WagonCrazy 
"16th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 3310
WagonCrazy
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 06-07-05
03-30-22 06:39 AM - Post#2838971    

I still haven't finished watching last weeks race at COTA (recorded but no time to sit and watch it).

But I've seen media reports of Nascar penalizing for team infractions lately. Something about Bubba losing a wheel, etc.

Why are they being so punitive with this new car?

57 Nomad -LS1 with C4 suspension
59 Apache Fleetside Shortbed BigWindow



 


Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27981
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
03-30-22 07:38 AM - Post#2838980    
    In response to WagonCrazy

Well if nothing else it's what they said they would do.

On the other hand, it was demonstrated (though a bit poorly to the public) that all is not perfect with the lug/dowel system on the new wheels. Penske and Roush had wheels confiscated but no penalties. But small teams (and some not so small) pay a heavy price for Nascar's shortcomings in this area.



 
monty56 
"17th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1526
monty56
Loc: Chandler(it's a dry heat)...
Reg: 04-26-04
03-30-22 09:20 AM - Post#2838984    
    In response to WagonCrazy

I'm thinking the wheels manage to find a blank spot to land and after the trie spins awhile it "drops" int the slots and then the nut is loose. Murphys law

Monty
'56 3100 Short Stepside Someday
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BigDogSS 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5042
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
04-01-22 09:00 AM - Post#2839110    
    In response to Rick_L

The single lug nut is NOT a new technology. They have been proven in open-wheel and sports car racing for YEARS. This was verified by Tony Stewart during the COTA broadcast. I know they want fast pit stops, but they need to take that extra time to make sure the wheels are seated correctly. I think they are waiting on fuel most of the time anyways.

    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
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Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27981
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
04-01-22 03:44 PM - Post#2839125    
    In response to BigDogSS

Is every part the same, such that it's "off the shelf" for other race cars, and previously produced in some kind of quantity? Wheels might be different diameter, width, and offset. Drive plates might interface the suspension differently. Likely that every piece is not common to another race series.



 
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4027
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
04-03-22 06:15 AM - Post#2839176    
    In response to WagonCrazy

There were so many infractions in the previous years Nascar said they were clamping down and handing out stiffer penalties, and they are. I recently saw the new penalty levels and costs of those penalties. The highest penalty is now a $500,000 fine and possible permanent suspension from the sport. Many, if not most, teams regularly finished the races with loose and/or missing lug nuts. The 23xi team recently lost a wheel during the race and if I recall correctly were penalized $100,000, suspension of crew chief, jackman and the right rear tire changer for the next 4 races. You can say that's pretty harsh but Nascar takes this one very seriously. I saw the story and a pic where many years ago there was an incident where a wheel came off a race car then rolled and bounced up over the catch fence and stuck and killed a man sitting in the top row of seats. They do not want a repeat of that. A single lug nut is nothing new to auto racing but it is to Nascar racing. The thought in using it is there is less chance a car gets out of the pits with loose lugs. They've got new impact wrenches with sensors to record the amount of torque applied to each lug nut also. I believe this new car is less about saving teams money and more about controlling the competition and the big show as well as liabilities.

Boog
69 Chevy step
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09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27981
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
04-03-22 08:16 AM - Post#2839189    
    In response to Boog

  • Quote:
I believe this new car is less about saving teams money and more about controlling the competition and the big show as well as liabilities.



Controlling the competition maybe. But controlling the liabilities? That's not working. So far this season there are MORE, not less, incidents where the wheel exits the car. While maybe there are more incidents with the old way, they didn't result in as many wheels leaving the car.

You can't just tell people you have to do better. If they want positive results, Nascar must mandate hardware that will have positive results.



 
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 4027
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
04-03-22 06:26 PM - Post#2839215    
    In response to Rick_L

Because it's not working is the reason for the stiffer penalties. As long as humans are changing the tires on race cars there will always be the chance for a loose wheel getting out on the track. The increased penalty for that occurrence is meant to get the teams to pay more attention to these things. In today's race Bubba left the pits and immediately felt something wrong and returned to the pits to get a wheel tightened. This coming the next race after he lost a wheel last week.
One would hope a tire changer could at least get one single lug nut tight on every stop instead of five as before. They'll get better.

Boog
69 Chevy step
06 GMC ccsb Z71
09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4900

Reg: 12-29-02
04-04-22 09:49 AM - Post#2839259    
    In response to WagonCrazy

I've been thinking the increase in fines is getting stupid, even before this year. It's getting to the point that the teams might was well put aside about 50k a race for when it's their turn to buy off NASCAR.

Do you remember the whole checking torque thing at the end of each race they did for a while? A nice big penalty if one nut didn't meet the torque penalty. If the same team does it again next race then the crew chief is probably suspended a race or more. A wheel falling off will ruin the teams race so isn't that penalty enough?

Now, it seems they're forcing the teams to be so scared they won't even attempt to let the car go to speed unless the gun says the wheel reached the right torque and the crew camera shows the wheel going on correctly. Any doubt at all and they'll give up all their track position to double check it.

Does NASCAR not realize the single nut wheels fall off too? That system is not infallible.

Hell, they now heavily penalized teams for failing the initial inspection. Isn't the whole point of that inspection to ensure the car meets the rules? The teams are supposed to be pushing everything to the limit of the rules and the inspection cat and mouse game is supposed to catch them. Why even bother with any initial inspections before the race if they're not allowed to fail the inspection? Just let them run and you lose the position if you fail post-race.





 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27981
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
04-09-22 01:58 PM - Post#2839557    
    In response to 65_Impala

A couple of internet articles out in the last two days about Keselowski's big penalty.

Supposedly RFK repaired a tail panel and ran it for 3 races and then got busted for it when Nascar took the #6 back to Charlotte after a race. Apparently the "repair" was not up to Nascar standard. Or maybe by simply repairing it, it's declared as "modified" and was a violation of the rules. Statement by Keselowski implied that there were no new ones available. So would they have missed a race (or 3) because of that part?

Lots of questions unanswered here. On top of that, neither of the 2 articles had a photo of the offending part or even of the tail of a car with it installed.

Something smells funny here, and both the race team and Nascar are holding back, at least to the public (you and I).



 
elvis 
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 913
elvis
Loc: Ontario
Reg: 11-10-05
04-15-22 07:01 AM - Post#2839831    
    In response to Rick_L

This single lug nut topic is interesting. Not sure what to think. Given the existing types of race cars that already use a single lug (F1, Indy Car, World of Outlaws/sprint cars), I would hope NASCAR learned from the experience of other leagues. Heck, for the safety of everyone in the sport of racing, I would hope people from various leagues are comparing and sharing data.
Has anyone noticed, a top fuel dragster still uses multiple lug nuts? It sort of reminds me of a comment made to me years ago by a retired commercial airline pilot. He said he would rather fly a plane with 2 engines than one. If one engine out of 2 gives up, he still has 1 engine left to land. If 1 engine out of 1 gives up, he's a glider.

Pouring money between the wheels.


 
CowboyTrukr 
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4782
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
04-15-22 01:47 PM - Post#2839849    
    In response to elvis

Same reason diving operations boats have two complete compressor systems and hoists.

Greg

‘01 Silverado 2500HD 8.1/Allison 1000 Xcab/LB
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