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Username Post: 1965 L78-427 cars?        (Topic#367173)
Oshawa65SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1180
Oshawa65SS
Age: 62
Loc: Grande Prairie AB & N...
Reg: 09-22-14
09-19-22 05:55 PM - Post#2847549    
    In response to chevy396425

  • chevy396425 Said:
What about dealer installed. Did that happen ?



Certainly, dealerships were happy to oblige paying customers.
Happened with 1967 GT500's that left the Ford assembly line with 428's but had 427's installed afterwards.
Only 3 had 427's installed and documented by Shelby American.
All others with 427's were Ford dealer, shop, or DIY owner installs.
Shelby American didn't keep records of what Ford dealers did to the cars after receiving them, so a dealer install when new requires the invoice to prove.

Ryan

65 Impala SS Evening Orchid convertible 283 2V, PG, 10 bolt 3.08 open by PO, originally 3.36
Build date Dec. 21 '64 Oshawa


 


Halnas66 
Newbie
Posts: 29

Reg: 07-19-20
09-19-22 06:57 PM - Post#2847552    
    In response to elcamino

  • elcamino Said:
In 1970 396 were overbored to 402 solely because of GM management's green light. Prior to 1970 they would not allow an engine with more the 400 cubic inches in A-body cars so 396 was used. Those were reserved for Corvette and full size passenger cars only and this is well documented. They kept the SS396 model name because it was a legend and they were not about to ruin a legend.

GM never installed any engine in place of another because 'they didn't have one in stock' or 'mistook it for another one' or someone wanted a bigger engine - never happened. 2000+ workers on an assembly line running 200+ cars an hour while someone jury rigs a engine into a car not designed for it? The wire harness do not fit, the springs can't take the extra weight, they trans is wrong and so on.

ALL assembly components were pre-scheduled (known as sequenced) to arrive at the final assembly point in a Just in Time type operation - parts were there when needed and options (including engine assemblies) coded only for the vehicle by broadcast sheets printed for that vehicle - period. No weird' spares were sitting around the plant to be installed by accident or on purpose...

If a particular drive-train, RPO or other major part for a given vehicle were not available, then the final assembly was scheduled for a production period when it would be available.

Some RPO items and specially equipped (like COPO's) vehicles were commonly scheduled for final assembly in batches, so special engineering instructions could be followed and parts staged into lines as necessary.

COPO - Central Office Production Order aka Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Department.


Most of this info I got from Listening to Jim Mattison back in 2002 at the Corvette Museum. He was in the F&SO dept. during the 1960-70's/
He also owned Pontiac Historical Services and was still with GM.




I'm going to call BS to this. Back in the 60's there was not a lot of JIT,(just in time shipping).
I can remember GM Canada having a plane run off the runway flying in parts from the USA.... The parts were easily substituted, engines for sure, because they had to have so many on hand.
I find your story plausible but not 100% fact...




 
DHMelton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 35
DHMelton
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
09-19-22 09:10 PM - Post#2847559    
    In response to Halnas66

Dealers did lots of upgrades.

427 Camaros for example. Chev built very few, but several dealers offered the package, perhaps several hundred were sold from dealer upgrades.

Your block "is" a 396 block. Some one, or some entity bored it out to 427.

JIT was relative, typical dates from engine cast date to car install was 3 weeks to 3 months, usually 4-8 weeks was norm, except Corvettes, which usually had a closer engine cast date to car assembly date.

I was looking at my '66 396 Impala today. Block was cast 12/5/65, rear axle center section was cast 1/2/66, the broadcast sheet says 02/03(66) for car build date.

I haven't verified the stamp pad yet, but not many people faked 325 HP 396 motors in impalas.

https://imgur.com/a/hKeZLCd

Doug



 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5563
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
09-20-22 04:46 AM - Post#2847564    
    In response to chevy396425

Anyone interested in the assembly process should look at this. Once you read this you will see how complicated the assembly was and it was not possible to change engines on the fly. It would screw up the whole process.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

Teaser
  • Quote:
The trimmed out shells from Fisher were received in a "body bank" on the Chevrolet side. The VIN was assigned in sequential order and the hidden VIN derivatives were stamped on the cowl top and on the dash adjacent to the heater opening. The receiving body bank matched the arriving bodies against customer orders so that the final assembly could be scheduled. Assembly scheduling sorted the units based on equipment and option content to maintain assembly line work station balance. The individual specifications for the remainder of assembly were "broadcast" to assembly stations throughout the Chevrolet assembly plant and the units were released in proper sequence to the Trim Line. Once released from the Body Bank, the assembly sequence was "locked-in" all the way to the end of the Final Line; vehicles could not thereafter be removed from the line.



Mike
2021 GMC 4WD Sierra Denali CC 6.2L/10-sp
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower


 
BigDogSS 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5075
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
09-20-22 09:30 AM - Post#2847569    
    In response to fsc66

  • fsc66 Said:
I saw all I needed to e-mailed you back



What did you find out, Paul?


    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS Sport Coupe 396 - Marina Blue FF - personal "barn-find" lol



 
fsc66 
Contributor
Posts: 820

Loc:
Reg: 05-05-12
09-20-22 05:49 PM - Post#2847593    
    In response to BigDogSS

I gave all the info to Carlos if he chooses to post, his call

Paul





 
Oshawa65SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1180
Oshawa65SS
Age: 62
Loc: Grande Prairie AB & N...
Reg: 09-22-14
09-20-22 09:19 PM - Post#2847607    
    In response to BigDogSS

Substitute tape measure wife for the documentation, and the husband becomes Paul in this video

https://www.tiktok.com/@themummeys/video/702 936412...

Ryan

65 Impala SS Evening Orchid convertible 283 2V, PG, 10 bolt 3.08 open by PO, originally 3.36
Build date Dec. 21 '64 Oshawa


 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4165
62sedan
Loc: Above the red Texas dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-21-22 04:52 AM - Post#2847615    
    In response to Oshawa65SS



Chuck






 
steve65 
"7th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1120
steve65
Age: 64
Loc: Langley, BC
Reg: 09-25-13
09-21-22 02:07 PM - Post#2847634    
    In response to Oshawa65SS

Am I the only one to notice his 'handle' is
chevy396425 and not chevy427425? LOL
But I guess we may never know what Paul found out.
Steve

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Sold, gone to a better home.



 
DHMelton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 35
DHMelton
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
09-21-22 02:20 PM - Post#2847635    
    In response to steve65

I noticed a long time ago, but made no comment.

Doug



 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
09-21-22 03:18 PM - Post#2847638    
    In response to DHMelton

I know a guy who has a 1980 Chevrolet Impala that has a rare, special order, special secret handshake, ultra special Chrysler Hemi engine with a Ford 5-speed manual transmission.

If you look at the VIN under special light it reads "zippitydodah".

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
fsc66 
Contributor
Posts: 820

Loc:
Reg: 05-05-12
09-22-22 07:15 AM - Post#2847664    
    In response to Tony1963

Fellas, I’m sure you are all aware of my business. When anyone sends me documents, i do not share those documents nor any information contained in those documents with anyone else without the sender’s permission. I reiterated aAll the information I was able to ascertain to Carlos based on the documents he had sent. If he chooses to share that information, that is his call. Anyone is more than welcome to ask him for the same if you wish

Paul





 
DHMelton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 35
DHMelton
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
09-22-22 01:00 PM - Post#2847671    
    In response to Tony1963

  • Tony1963 Said:


If you look at the VIN under special light it reads "zippitydodah".



This reminds me....
Back in the early 2000s, I would take my '61 Corvette with NOM L79 CE 327 motor to car shows.

I would get these people bending over and looking at the stamp pad to see if the numbers matched, so without altering the CE stamping, I hand stamped EAT ME on the stamp pad.

A few years later I swapped that motor out for larger small block,and used that EAT ME motor in a 1937 ford Pickup I was building.

The truck was a basket case with no title, I used a TCI frame so no more Ford VIN on the frame so when i went to register it, the DMV people were all hinky, so i showed them a picture album of the build, which put their minds to ease but they still need the vehicle inspected. in private, so they could confiscate it if they determined it was stolen.

I was talking to the inspector and she was telling ne "there are secret VIN numbers on things (the motor) nobody knows about". I would assume she was referring to the stamp pad..

I Said, you mean the motor stamp dad? I bought the motor over the counter from Chev parts in 1976, the stamp pad has CE0xxxx on it. She assured me that no, there was VIN number on the motor from the vehicle the motor came out of. I guess she thought I was stupid, or something.

So she shoes me out of tehr oom,a nd comes back and says she can't read the pad (the secret location) since an AC bracket was in the way, and I needed to remove the bracket.

I borrowed a couple tools from her and removed the bracket,and she shooed me out of the room again. I was wondering what she was going to think of my custom pad stamping, when

a couple minutes later, she comes out with a kind of pissed look on her face, shoves the inspection papers in my hand and says here, you can get it registered, go put your truck back together.



Doug




 
chevy396425 
Newbie
Posts: 24

Reg: 05-23-15
09-23-22 08:16 AM - Post#2847690    
    In response to Oshawa65SS

Ditto and Bingo.



 
BigDogSS 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5075
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
09-23-22 08:54 AM - Post#2847694    
    In response to chevy396425

Hi Carlos,
Can you share Paul's finding with us? Your car is what it is, no matter what engine it turns out to have installed. We are NOT here to bust your chops.
Thanks and have a great day.

    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS Sport Coupe 396 - Marina Blue FF - personal "barn-find" lol



Edited by BigDogSS on 09-23-22 01:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bigred65 
Contributor
Posts: 314
bigred65
Age: 40
Loc: Kenmore WA
Reg: 03-18-13
09-23-22 01:18 PM - Post#2847707    
    In response to chevy396425

Would love to see some pictures of the car, I have a 65 also made the second week of August, LA plant, with the transistor ignition. Unfortunately the original L78 and 4 speed are long gone. Post some pics of your car.

Brandon

1965 Impala SS 396 4spd
1966 Impala SS convert 4spd
1973 Corvette 4spd
1973 Firebird Formula 4spd
1959 Corvette FI 4spd will restore it someday!!!


 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
09-23-22 05:57 PM - Post#2847718    
    In response to elcamino

That is one of the best articles about vehicle assembly that I have ever seen. Good for you for publishing the FACTS and not indulge in the nostalgia of made-up fantasy.

No matter how much evidence that you produce, there is always someone who has some long lost uncle who special ordered something that didn't exist because he "knew some guy", etc. etc.

We have all heard the stories and I believe none of them. Keep in mind that all of the factory records are LONG GONE and the company that built these vehicles technically no longer exists. When GM declared bankruptcy and was dissolved into dust, what came forward was the New GM with all of those familiar brand names.

Let the fake legends live on in the minds of those that want to believe. Takes me back to the 90s with the X-Files...

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
steve65 
"7th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1120
steve65
Age: 64
Loc: Langley, BC
Reg: 09-25-13
09-24-22 12:33 PM - Post#2847736    
    In response to Tony1963

Tony, can you then explain to me how the Z11 option 427 ended up up in more than one or two (possibly more) 63 Impala’s?
Steve
Just want to hear how you think they got in there?
Steve

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Sold, gone to a better home.



 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
09-24-22 01:06 PM - Post#2847737    
    In response to steve65

That's an entirely different discussion where the factory built a couple of race cars. Ford did the same thing as did Chrysler.

Next I'll hear someone who had a specially designed ABS system in a 1965 Biscayne that was developed by Volvo and was installed in their vehicle because Barney knew Bob and the service manual is in Swedish.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
rcr3 
Site Ambassador -"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3725
rcr3
Age: 70
Loc: MANHEIM PA. U.S.A.
Reg: 11-24-02
09-24-22 04:18 PM - Post#2847744    
    In response to Tony1963

  • Tony1963 Said:
That's an entirely different discussion where the factory built a couple of race cars. Ford did the same thing as did Chrysler.

Next I'll hear someone who had a specially designed ABS system in a 1965 Biscayne that was developed by Volvo and was installed in their vehicle because Barney knew Bob and the service manual is in Swedish.



Don't forget your other friends,George and Elmer.

'67 Camaro survivor
'06 Z71 Sierra Ex Cab
'37 Chevy cp.SOLD!!6/7/14
'00 S10 Ex Cab BUILT FOR EVERYDAY,NOT JUST THE HOLIDAYS
'73 Nova pro-street project
'17 Chevy Trax LT







 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
09-24-22 05:43 PM - Post#2847748    
    In response to rcr3

LOL - yes, good ole' George and Elmer.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4165
62sedan
Loc: Above the red Texas dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-25-22 06:46 AM - Post#2847751    
    In response to Tony1963

Take all your "friends" and go away.

Chuck






 
62sedan 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4165
62sedan
Loc: Above the red Texas dirt
Reg: 08-12-02
09-25-22 06:47 AM - Post#2847752    
    In response to Tony1963

Never mind..... it's not worth typing it.



 
Tony1963 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1665

Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
09-26-22 02:07 PM - Post#2847803    
    In response to 62sedan

I invite you to go away, too. Either make a contribution to the post or stop with the personal attacks.

People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know.


 
DHMelton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 35
DHMelton
Loc: Central Arizona
Reg: 04-10-22
09-26-22 02:15 PM - Post#2847805    
    In response to Tony1963

  • Tony1963 Said:
That's an entirely different discussion where the factory built a couple of race cars. Ford did the same thing as did Chrysler.

.



Yes, and those weren't built on the normal assembly line, and they were diverted to well known racers or builders, somewhat (or totally) under the table, not sold to Billy Bob in Toadsuck, AR.

Doug




 


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