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Username Post: 62 impala 409 overheating        (Topic#366505)
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-24-21 07:21 PM - Post#2827901    

So guys I’m putting this 62 impala with a 409 together. Got everything all done first 2 weeks of driving it was fine than started overheating. Replaced water pump thermostat and radiator, replaced fan with a 7 blade fan and added a electric fan operating on a temp switch. At idle it’ll reach 210 haven’t drove it just let it idle. Is that normal at 210 ?



 


dgstarr 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 265
dgstarr
Loc: Portland, OR
Reg: 04-16-13
09-24-21 08:27 PM - Post#2827906    
    In response to Mjal1106

Is this a factory 409? If not, you are probably using a much smaller radiator than come with a 409. The 409 had a 3 row large tank radiator that was taller and wider than most small block cars. US radiator reproduces correct radiators for the 409 cars. Show cars sells them for less than buying them from the manufacturer.



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-24-21 08:30 PM - Post#2827907    
    In response to dgstarr

It’s a cooling care 3 row aluminum radiator.



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-24-21 08:32 PM - Post#2827908    
    In response to dgstarr

And yes from what I was told it’s a factory 409 no modifications but I’m not 100% sure



 
pvs409 
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3241
pvs409
Loc: Sergeant Bluff, Iowa
Reg: 01-10-05
09-24-21 09:24 PM - Post#2827910    
    In response to Mjal1106

The brass core 409 radiators that Show Cars sells are 4 row radiators not 3 row.

I have a Griffin Aluminum 409 style radiator in my 62 Impala that has a 482 cubic inch stroker motor. I have a stock 409 fan shroud and a stock 5 bladed fan. Stays under 200 degrees.

Paul


57 BelairHT 283/270hp 4 spd
62 ImpHT 327/300 4 spd
62 Imp CV SS 327/300HP 700R4 (sold)
62 Imp HT SS 409/482 stroker 4 spd
62 Imp SS 409 - 5 spd Convertible
http://paulstensland.com


 
turbo38s10 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1930
turbo38s10
Loc: Agawam,MA
Reg: 09-17-09
09-25-21 04:41 AM - Post#2827914    
    In response to pvs409

are you running the shroud on the fan?



 
rrausch 
"16th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14672
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
09-25-21 05:04 AM - Post#2827915    
    In response to turbo38s10

Mjal, post some pictures of that bad boy so we can drool.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Mercedes 
Contributor
Posts: 352

Reg: 07-09-18
09-25-21 05:17 AM - Post#2827916    
    In response to Mjal1106

I don't believe that 210 degrees at idle is excessive. Above 220 would be overheating.

If it doesn't overheat any other than idle, I'd suspect poor airflow through the radiator via fan that isn't pulling enough air for whatever reason.



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-25-21 05:41 AM - Post#2827920    
    In response to turbo38s10

Yes I’m running the shroud



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-25-21 05:42 AM - Post#2827921    
    In response to Mercedes

I’ll take it for a ride today and see what happens with it



 
japete92 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1777
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
09-25-21 06:04 AM - Post#2827923    
    In response to pvs409

  • pvs409 Said:
The brass core 409 radiators that Show Cars sells are 4 row radiators not 3 row.

I have a Griffin Aluminum 409 style radiator in my 62 Impala that has a 482 cubic inch stroker motor. I have a stock 409 fan shroud and a stock 5 bladed fan. Stays under 200 degrees.

Paul




The above is what I also recommend. The stock 409 radiator, fan w/shroud is ALL you should require.

The OEM system allows enough air flow thru the radiator at forward speed (approx 25 mph) to sufficiently cool the engine in that mode. The 5 blade fan properly installed in a proper shroud provides enough air flow thru the radiator at 'idle/slow traffic' to sufficiently cool the engine in that mode.

What is 'sufficiently cool'? In my opinion; within approx 5% of the thermostat rating at forward speed; 10% at idle/traffic. The system is not sensitive to some minor fluctuations.

Beware of blocking the natural air flow at speed with unnecessary accessories (electric fans, etc) when using the OEM system.

IF (I do not recommend it) electric fans are used; go ALL electric and make sure there is sufficient air flow, with proper on/off setting, for both at speed and at idle operation.

Also recommend you check the timing. Advancing the timing may help.

Pete








 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15355

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
09-25-21 07:20 AM - Post#2827928    
    In response to japete92

First off, 210 may not be what it should run, but it is not overheating. What temp. thermostat is it? The general rule is, running hot while moving is not enough radiator, running hot sitting still is not enough air flow.
You may have an air pocket in the system as well. This can cause the gauge to read higher than the actual temp. Run the car with the radiator cap off and the front end jacked up. The fill neck of the radiator should be the highest part of the system to let any air pockets purge out.
Is your fan half in and half out of the shroud? That is the ideal positioning to pull air through the front and push it rearward for scavenging. Also, a copper/brass radiator is actually more efficient at heat dissipation than an aluminum radiator. Newly built engines also can tend to run a little hotter until they are broken in.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5899

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
09-25-21 09:17 AM - Post#2827934    
    In response to Mjal1106

if it was fine i would look at the tuneup

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-25-21 09:48 AM - Post#2827936    
    In response to wagonman100

Has a 165 degree thermostat installed that’s brand new. I bled it out didn’t see no more air pockets in it. Tried it 4/5 times and still same result.



 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7633
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
09-25-21 01:25 PM - Post#2827946    
    In response to Mjal1106

Is the temperature gauge accurate? Check the temp with an IR gun on the thermostat housing and see if it agrees with the gauge.

As was asked before—

Is the fan blade half in half out of the fan shroud? Is the engine a new build? Either of f these issues could explain 210 at idle, if the gauge is accurate.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-26-21 01:38 PM - Post#2828027    
    In response to DonSSDD

No fan blade isn’t half in half out. Running the oem fan clutch and shroud that came with the car. Engine isn’t a new build either.



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-26-21 02:22 PM - Post#2828036    
    In response to DonSSDD

Temp gauge is accurate I checked it with ir gun. New gauge and sensor also



 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7633
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
09-26-21 02:44 PM - Post#2828039    
    In response to Mjal1106

What’s the engine history, if not a new rebuild?

I think a stock thermostat was a 180. The fan should be half in half out, otherwise it may run a bit hotter.

Are you running 50/50 antifreeze/water? That’s the normal thing to run.

At 210, you’re at the high end of ok with antifreeze. About 195 is normal with a modern vehicle with long life antifreeze, aluminum rad and block. I’d get the fan half in half out of the shroud and drive it carefully and see if it is ok in normal driving.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-26-21 03:58 PM - Post#2828043    
    In response to DonSSDD

Not to sure on engine history honestly. How would I get the fan half in and half out ? It’s the 409 shroud 409 clutch only changed the fan to a 7 blade but even with the 5 blade it was the same thing.

Yes 50/50 mixture. I drove it today and it went past 210 reached 230 and I shut it down



 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7633
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
09-26-21 04:29 PM - Post#2828047    
    In response to Mjal1106

If you have the correct components for the 409, the fan should be in the right place. Something you have is not right. I assume your blades are fully inside the shroud?

Can you post a pic?



63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
kingkreeton 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1573
kingkreeton
Loc: Nashville TN
Reg: 04-15-11
09-26-21 05:45 PM - Post#2828055    
    In response to Mjal1106

Any coolant leaks?

Maybe that new radiator is defective. Where did you get it? I have t heard of that brand before.

Shane
64 Impala SS:
Chevy Performance 350HO
4 Speed Muncie


 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-26-21 10:13 PM - Post#2828072    
    In response to DonSSDD

I’ll get pics in the morning. I was told The fan,shroud and clutch were the factory ones. Anywhere I looked online they all matched up to what I have



 
Mjal1106 
Newbie
Posts: 12

Reg: 09-24-21
09-26-21 10:17 PM - Post#2828073    
    In response to kingkreeton

No leaks I triple checked the system and pressure tested it everything was fine. Radiator came from a buddy I’m not sure where he got it from but it was brand new and he said it’s for a impala. I pressure tested cooling system and the cap and they held pressure just fine.



 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3745

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-27-21 04:37 AM - Post#2828086    
    In response to Mjal1106

Your water pump impeller might be slipping on the internal part of the shaft. Wouldn't be the first time that I have seen this happen, especially with rebuilds that were done incorrectly. Only way to know for certain is to remove it and physically examine it.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
japete92 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1777
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
09-27-21 06:31 AM - Post#2828093    
    In response to Mjal1106

  • Mjal1106 Said:
I’ll get pics in the morning. I was told The fan,shroud and clutch were the factory ones. Anywhere I looked online they all matched up to what I have



Here is a pic of my sbc with a 4 blade non clutched fan. The 409 clutched fan (and any sbc with, or w/o clutch) 'sits' like mine; half in-half out. I could replace my 4 blade fan with OEM/stock GM parts for the 5 blade clutched fan, and the blade would be in the exact same place in space.; half in-half out.

The OEM/stock GM BB and sb shrouds are the same; approx 18" diameter. The fan blades too (from memory) 17" diameter for the 4 blade, 17 1/2" for the OEM/stock GM 5 blade fan.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete

Attachment: impala_4_blade_fan_shroud.jpg (390.37 KB) 4 View(s)






 
327 
Contributor
Posts: 127

Age: 60
Loc: Ontario , Canada
Reg: 02-09-21
09-27-21 07:01 AM - Post#2828095    
    In response to japete92





 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7633
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
09-27-21 08:27 AM - Post#2828102    
    In response to 327

The 348/409 shroud is shorter, front to back. The W block is longer front to back than a small block with all the extra length being forward of the motor mounts.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
japete92 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1777
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
09-27-21 11:41 AM - Post#2828122    
    In response to DonSSDD

  • DonSSDD Said:
The 348/409 shroud is shorter, front to back. The W block is longer front to back than a small block with all the extra length being forward of the motor mounts.




I never owned a BB, and the above statement makes sense to me. But, I looked thru the 63 Assembly manual and did not find any different part numbers for a BB shroud (just 3824142). I may have missed something. That has happened in the past.

I did not look up what differences may exist between the BB and SB regarding the water pumps/fans.

I am not disputing your statement, I just can't find any difference in the part numbers.

Just discussion; not criticism.

Pete



 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7633
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
09-27-21 01:41 PM - Post#2828129    
    In response to japete92

Pete, no criticism taken. From what I have read, the 59-63 shroud was the same except 63 had an open bottom on the bolt holes for the bottom 2 holes. The shroud came as 2 part numbers, 3824137 was the LH, 3824138 was the RH. They were spot welded by the dealers I believe. If you go to the 63 RPO section, L31 L33, sheet 2.00 under miscellaneous you will find 3824137 saying it is for both sides.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
kingkreeton 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1573
kingkreeton
Loc: Nashville TN
Reg: 04-15-11
09-27-21 01:53 PM - Post#2828130    
    In response to Mjal1106

I googled your "cooling care 3 row aluminum radiator" and it is sold on Amazon for a very cheap price. I would recommend replacing it with a radiator/fan combo that is from a known manufacture.

The friend that gave it to you, was it new or used?

  • Mjal1106 Said:
And yes from what I was told it’s a factory 409 no modifications but I’m not 100% sure



I think this is one of those cases where you get what you pay for. You seemed to have done all the other checks, I would bet your radiator/fan combo is your issue.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.


Shane
64 Impala SS:
Chevy Performance 350HO
4 Speed Muncie


Edited by kingkreeton on 09-27-21 01:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


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