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Username Post: 65 Biscayne Moser rear end swap        (Topic#366481)
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
09-22-21 10:05 AM - Post#2827692    

Hey guys,

Ordering a new 12-bolt rear end from Moser Engineering and they can ship it with control arm brackets installed for a '65 Impala (4-link). This means that there will be no provision for my Biscayne's existing panhard bar.

This also means that I would need to weld in an upper control arm bracket on my frame (driver side) since the Biscayne (mine anyway) only has the upper passenger side bracket.

Am I correct in assuming that, with the addition of an upper driver side control arm bracket, this rear end will bolt right in?

In other words, the impala rear suspension geometry (control arm bracket location, measurement, and layout) is identical to the Biscayne, except for the pan hard bracket and missing upper control arm bracket. Is this correct?

***UPDATE 10/15/2021***
Ordered my 12-bolt from Moser, set up with factory width and brackets "for a '65 Impala" (that's all they can tell you...it is up to the buyer to verify that it will work). It bolted right in without any problem whatsoever.

They install OEM type brackets, two uppers, and two lowers, and the passenger bracket does have the panhard bar hole if you choose to retain the three link setup. You would have to recover the stud from your old rear end.

More details down in the thread. Thank you everyone for helping with my questions.

-Kevin

1965 Chevy Biscayne


Edited by 65cayne on 10-15-21 09:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


ImpalaSam 
Newbie
Posts: 49

Loc: Inman, SC
Reg: 07-02-09
09-22-21 11:53 AM - Post#2827698    
    In response to 65cayne

I'm pretty sure the panhard mount is integral to the passenger side upper arm mount.



 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
09-22-21 12:12 PM - Post#2827704    
    In response to ImpalaSam

  • ImpalaSam Said:
I'm pretty sure the panhard mount is integral to the passenger side upper arm mount.



Correct. And on the impala, the bracket looks exactly the same sans the panhard bracket. At least I think it does. I do not own an Impala.


Maybe a better question for the group... Who here has swapped an impala 4-link rear end into a Biscayne?



1965 Chevy Biscayne


Edited by 65cayne on 09-22-21 12:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
aghaga 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2331
aghaga
Age: 67
Loc: Altavista, Va.
Reg: 07-05-08
09-22-21 06:58 PM - Post#2827736    
    In response to 65cayne

You will not have to weld a frame mount for the second upper control arm. The mounts are bolted on and are the same left and right. The upper control arms are the same also. When you install the additional arm/bracket be sure to add the shims between the mount and crossmember. You shim the new arm/bracket to match the other upper control arm. The panhard bar mounts are the same on the frame and rear housing be it 10 bolt or 12 bolt, 3 link or 4 link.



 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1738
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
09-22-21 07:12 PM - Post#2827737    
    In response to aghaga

I'd assume the street Moser will use a GM 12 bolt core housing, so it should come with the hole in the upper passenger side mount for the Panhard bolt. All the frames in that 65-70 gen came drilled for the 4th upper arm regardless.

1965 Laurentian post, 1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
09-23-21 04:30 AM - Post#2827755    
    In response to aghaga

  • aghaga Said:
You will not have to weld a frame mount for the second upper control arm. The mounts are bolted on and are the same left and right. The upper control arms are the same also. When you install the additional arm/bracket be sure to add the shims between the mount and crossmember. You shim the new arm/bracket to match the other upper control arm. The panhard bar mounts are the same on the frame and rear housing be it 10 bolt or 12 bolt, 3 link or 4 link.



He said they will weld the brackets on the axle in the OEM location for a 65 Impala 4-link and there will be no provision for a panhard bar. Meaning I could not bolt it in and run it in my existing configuration with the panhard bar.

Any idea where I can get the upper driver side frame bracket?

My main concern is that for the three frame brackets I have now, they are in the correct location and will work with the Impala OEM 4-link axle. Then all I need to do is add that 4th bracket to the frame, get another upper control arm and delete my panhard bar.

It sounds like this is the case.


1965 Chevy Biscayne


 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
09-23-21 04:45 AM - Post#2827756    
    In response to mjc1

  • mjc1 Said:
I'd assume the street Moser will use a GM 12 bolt core housing, so it should come with the hole in the upper passenger side mount for the Panhard bolt. All the frames in that 65-70 gen came drilled for the 4th upper arm regardless.



The housings are manufactured by Moser. They are not cores. However, you could be correct though. I know the bracket kit from Currie (for an Impala 4-link) indeed has that provision for the panhard bar that you are talking about. Maybe Moser's brackets will be the same. I intend to go to a 4-link set up but a panhard bar provision would get me on the road immediately.

Thanks guys for all your replies! It's been very helpful.

1965 Chevy Biscayne


 
ImpalaSam 
Newbie
Posts: 49

Loc: Inman, SC
Reg: 07-02-09
09-23-21 08:40 AM - Post#2827779    
    In response to 65cayne

My '65 Impala came with a 10 bolt and 3 link rear. I swapped in a 12 bolt with 4 link from a '69 Caprice. Everything fit without issue when I used the upper links from '65 because the upper links from the '69 were a different length, I think the upper crossmember is flipped and the upper links are shorter on the later cars.



Edited by ImpalaSam on 09-23-21 08:40 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
09-23-21 10:53 AM - Post#2827799    
    In response to ImpalaSam

Thanks Sam

1965 Chevy Biscayne


 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
10-15-21 10:32 AM - Post#2829212    
    In response to 65cayne

Well I pulled the trigger on the Moser rear end. I installed it in place of the old GM 8.2 rear end along with two new upper adjustable control arms and two new mounting brackets.

The assembly can be fairly inexpensive however when you add some powder coat, a few upgrades, sales tax, and shipping, it gets quite expensive. With age, I find myself saving the extra $$ for the "once and done" solutions rather than trying to go the cheapest route. I came close to doing that (just repairing the stock rear) however after disassembling it, that would have been a terrible decision. It was on borrowed time long before the axle seal blew out.

I ended up getting a custom built rear with bolt in axles and GM "big" housing ends (Impala and truck only) to accept my factory backing plates. Other than adding the second upper control arm and having to order a new driveshaft (converted to 1350 U-joints), it is a straight bolt-in solution.

The complete assembly is as follows:

Moser 12-bolt housing with factory style brackets
3.73 gear set with 1350 yoke
Wavetrac helical limited slip (they were out of my other two choices...this was much more expensive but had a lifetime transferrable warranty)
35 spline axles with 3" x 1/2"-20 screw in studs (upgrade from planned 33-spline due to Wavetrac only accepting 35 spline axles... 10yr warranty on the axles)
Moser aluminum girdle (diff cover)
Powdercoat (semi-gloss black)

Plus two Globalwest TBC-51 upper control arms, and two VTC-50 brackets. Both brackets bolt right in as mentioned by another Poster.

The rear was delivered 13 days after I ordered it. Got here fast and undamaged but the crating/packing job was the pits.

If anyone has any questions, please ask. Thanks for everyone's help.

Time to heal the wallet now.



1965 Chevy Biscayne


 
space66 
Contributor
Posts: 676
space66
Loc: Montreal,Qc
Reg: 06-01-16
10-16-21 07:22 AM - Post#2829249    
    In response to 65cayne

nice upgrade, and a nice self given gift.
a $5000, well spend ...
"once and done" congrats !


My first car: 1970 Olds, 442,455 (1981-82)
My last car : 1966 Chev. Impala convertible,396 (1984-2020)
current car: Can't afford them anymore ...


 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1738
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
10-16-21 08:10 AM - Post#2829255    
    In response to 65cayne

Could you post some images?
I'd love to see it.

1965 Laurentian post, 1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4818

Reg: 12-29-02
10-17-21 07:21 AM - Post#2829339    
    In response to 65cayne

You seem confused on the panhard bar. You always need it, even with a 4-link.



 
space66 
Contributor
Posts: 676
space66
Loc: Montreal,Qc
Reg: 06-01-16
10-17-21 08:37 AM - Post#2829342    
    In response to 65cayne

Is the Moser cover the same depth as original ? I've seen guys with after market aluminum case covers having clearance issues mounting the panhard bar ...

My first car: 1970 Olds, 442,455 (1981-82)
My last car : 1966 Chev. Impala convertible,396 (1984-2020)
current car: Can't afford them anymore ...


 
docjns1 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 218
docjns1
Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 11-12-19
10-18-21 04:12 PM - Post#2829443    
    In response to space66

FWIW, my Impala SS has the 4 link and panhard bar, (12 bolt
) all stock. My understanding is the SS and wagons got the 4 link and all others had the 3 link but mounting is all the same. Ditto above comment re: shimming the bracket to match the other side. The shims are used to set pinion angle so imortant to checkk that, especially with a non factory housing. I've installed adjustable upper arms as well to accomodate that while chasing a vibration

Steve
*********
'65 Impala SS, Crocus Yellow/blk
327 / 300 L74
M11 3 on the tree
12 bolt 3.31 open dif


 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
10-19-21 09:56 AM - Post#2829479    
    In response to mjc1

  • mjc1 Said:
Could you post some images?
I'd love to see it.



I cannot post images because I am not a dues paying member.


1965 Chevy Biscayne


 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
10-19-21 10:07 AM - Post#2829480    
    In response to docjns1

  • docjns1 Said:
FWIW, my Impala SS has the 4 link and panhard bar, (12 bolt
) all stock. My understanding is the SS and wagons got the 4 link and all others had the 3 link but mounting is all the same. Ditto above comment re: shimming the bracket to match the other side. The shims are used to set pinion angle so imortant to checkk that, especially with a non factory housing. I've installed adjustable upper arms as well to accomodate that while chasing a vibration



  • 65_Impala Said:
You seem confused on the panhard bar. You always need it, even with a 4-link.



Thank you both for bringing this to my attention. I guess I always assumed the four link setups eliminate that provision. Indeed, I was wrong and you (and the chassis service manual) are correct.

On the shims, I removed them along with the original factory bracket and installed two new brackets. I will be resetting the pinion angle with my adjustable uppers when I get my driveshaft later this week.

  • space66 Said:
Is the Moser cover the same depth as original ? I've seen guys with after market aluminum case covers having clearance issues mounting the panhard bar ...



**update** Unfortunately, yes it does interfere. So I will need one of two solutions:

1) A bent/adjustable panhard bar to go around the cover. These exist, but none specifically for the Impala/Biscayne. I may call a manufacturer with dimensions and try to find a cross match.

2) A 1" longer stud that will bring the bar out farther from the axle. This thing basically looks likt a giant 1/2-20 x 3" rocker stud.

Unrelated, I also found out that the manual steering pitman arm is actually shorter than the power steering arm (I am converting to manual steering). This will only exacerbate my drag link and oil pan interference problem at full turn. So that is another issue I will need to address or maybe just take really wide turns.

Joys of hot rodding I guess.





1965 Chevy Biscayne


Edited by 65cayne on 10-19-21 02:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4818

Reg: 12-29-02
10-19-21 05:16 PM - Post#2829503    
    In response to 65cayne

Be careful with a bent arm, a bent piece of tubing isn't nearly as strong as a straight piece. I would try to find a way to space the stud out further before using a bent bar.



 
space66 
Contributor
Posts: 676
space66
Loc: Montreal,Qc
Reg: 06-01-16
10-19-21 08:01 PM - Post#2829510    
    In response to 65cayne

  • 65cayne Said:
  • mjc1 Said:
Could you post some images?
I'd love to see it.



I cannot post images because I am not a dues paying member.




Kevin,
you can use > https://postimages.org/
choose image ,use the (Hotlink for forums) to copy (right side link ) and paste on message



My first car: 1970 Olds, 442,455 (1981-82)
My last car : 1966 Chev. Impala convertible,396 (1984-2020)
current car: Can't afford them anymore ...


 
65cayne 
Contributor
Posts: 112

Reg: 08-21-07
10-20-21 05:58 AM - Post#2829521    
    In response to 65_Impala

  • 65_Impala Said:
Be careful with a bent arm, a bent piece of tubing isn't nearly as strong as a straight piece. I would try to find a way to space the stud out further before using a bent bar.



That is a valid point but there are many applications already using factory and aftermarket engineered/bent track bars. I don't plan to alter one myself.

My preferred option, like you said, is to extend the stud without jeopardizing the strength of the attachment. Simply double-nutting a long bolt through the hole is not a great solution so something custom is in order.


1965 Chevy Biscayne


 


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