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Username Post: gas tank swap - vents, lines?        (Topic#364073)
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-21-21 04:58 PM - Post#2812576    

Rather than pay $200-ish for a new tank I went to the you pick and someone else's loss is my gain, with a fairly fresh replaced tank all I had to do was pick up and carry out.

But when they prep these they drop the tank to drain it and just cut everything, so all the lines and so forth are gone and not salvageable.

So before I can install it I have two vents on top of the tank with lines that go to what I presume is the charcoal cannister I have to move over.

The problem is these lines are fitted to the vents in the same way they attach to the connectors that clip on and off, they don't appear to be made to be removed. Any ideas how to remove them? Maybe I can take the whole vent off but it's not clear how they attach either.

This is an 02 van, so it has a metal tank that sits on a plastic shield which also serves as mount for the filter and the canister. At least I assume that's what the box is on top of it which is what these lines feed to.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
jktucker92 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 458
jktucker92
Loc: West Richland, WA
Reg: 02-05-17
01-22-21 08:14 AM - Post#2812626    
    In response to Bill K.b

Can you get a photo of the connector and post it? Below is the section from the service manual about EVAP Hose replacement at the tank, so it appears that they're made to be removed. I've seen two types used on GM vehicles that I've removed. One uses a white plastic clip like #1 in the image below. For that one, you pinch the tabs and then rock the fitting back and forth until it comes free. The other one I've seen on GM vehicles is like #4 below. For that one, there's a thin clip that needs to be pushed in to release it. Once it's pushed in, you rock it back and forth until it comes free. I've also been successful in pulling on it and fully removing it, although you're more prone to breaking it that way.

Directions from the service guide are:
Remove the fuel tank. Refer to Fuel Tank Replacement .

Disconnect the rear EVAP vapor pipe (1) from the fuel sender (2), the fuel tank roll over valve (3), and the fuel tank clips (6).

Remove the EVAP vapor pipe from the fuel tank.
Cap the fuel sender EVAP pipe and the fuel tank roll over valve.





Attachment: Fittings.png (10.7 KB) 10 View(s)
Attachment: Tank.png (33.65 KB) 8 View(s)



Edited by jktucker92 on 01-22-21 08:15 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-22-21 09:47 AM - Post#2812631    
    In response to jktucker92

Hoses fit to the vents like the left side of 1 in the first picture. There is no clip, the hose is pressed on the same as they are pressed to the clip.

Vents are the same as GM GENUINE 25180509 on Rock Auto. Appears they may twist and remove.

Second picture appears to show a later all plastic tank.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


Edited by Bill K.b on 01-22-21 09:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-22-21 01:29 PM - Post#2812644    
    In response to Bill K.b

Well, the vents turn about 120' and pull out. I got all the stuff swapped to the replacement tank, changed the plug, but every single step of this job has been a fight.

The pump would NOT go in with the new gasket that came with it. I compared to the one that was on the pump in that tank (I also grabbed it at the yard because it's a fairly new one, but they broke the housing) and the new gasket is larger than the old one. So I tried it with the old gasket and that one went in. Of course no snap ring with the pump, so I had to use the one off the rotten tank I pulled out.

Now where I am stuck is the filter. I just cut the ends off it to get it off there. The end on the line under the van will NOT come out. I have the clip tabs depressed and can spin the thing in a circle but it will not pull out more than just the maybe 1/4 inch it moved. I presume it has some rust up inside. With everything plastic and it cold out I'm hesitant to really horse on it but I pulled pretty hard while holding it with the other hand and it just spins around.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-22-21 04:58 PM - Post#2812662    
    In response to Bill K.b

The nylon ring is very likely stuck to the rusted filter. I would guarantee it.
What is spinning with the filter is the 2 rings, the nylon one and the Yellow O-ring behind it.
Sucks when that happens. You may get lucky if you keep spraying it while you move it, but likely you will end up pulling them out of that fitting.
If you are lucky you will get it off the filter once removed and be able to reinstall it into the fitting. O-ring first, then black nylon ring.
The nylon ring should push in snug into the fitting.
If you cannot get that done you will have to replace the fitting.

Old School GM fan FOREVER


Edited by rockfangd on 01-22-21 05:01 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-22-21 09:53 PM - Post#2812679    
    In response to rockfangd

I haven't even tried spraying it yet; PB blaster or something else?

The wind picked up and my hands started to hurt from the cold so I packed it in there.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-23-21 08:25 AM - Post#2812727    
    In response to Bill K.b

PB should be ok.
As long as the spray does not swell the rubber seal

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-23-21 11:21 AM - Post#2812750    
    In response to rockfangd

I got thinking, maybe it would help if I boiled up a pot of hot water and stuck the line end in it for a few minutes. Any water in the fuel line is just going to drip down out of it as I shake the thing around trying to pull that nub out.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
Algoma56 
Contributor
Posts: 728

Loc: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Can...
Reg: 03-14-05
01-25-21 08:30 AM - Post#2812883    
    In response to Bill K.b

Careful use of a hot air gun, should help.



 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-25-21 12:54 PM - Post#2812898    
    In response to Algoma56

Well, it was a tad warmer and a blast of PB and it came on out. However it came with a black plastic ring on the metal end, which I was able to slide off (all rust under it is why it stuck). That doesn't seem to be damaged at all. What worries me more is there appears to be a yellow (maybe once it was white?) o-ring past that and this came out with a sliver of it which fell on the ground.

I probably should replace it.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-25-21 04:17 PM - Post#2812916    
    In response to Bill K.b

Reread my above post. Talks about all of that. from 1/21/21
I would not replace it if it is still flexible. It is not just rubber.


Old School GM fan FOREVER


Edited by rockfangd on 01-25-21 04:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-25-21 05:02 PM - Post#2812925    
    In response to rockfangd

The black nylon ring was stuck on some rust on the filter stub. The O-ring stayed in - most of it. About a 3/16" long sliver of it came out and fell on the ground. Almost like you'd purposely tried to shave part of it off.

Replacement connectors were three bucks at the parts store, I bought two, I figured I could dig out the same bits and put them in my connector. Given these things run what, 60 PSI, I don't want it leaking fuel out of there.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-25-21 05:28 PM - Post#2812928    
    In response to Bill K.b

I have done that. Only other option is to replace the fitting, but without the proper tool it is nearly impossible.
There is no way to install anew one without cutting off the part of the line with the old one

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-25-21 05:30 PM - Post#2812929    
    In response to rockfangd

I make it a habit to change my fuel filters annually after dealing with issues.
Nuts that are seized into place, lines that will not come off, etc...
Probably the original fuel filter lol

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-25-21 06:29 PM - Post#2812932    
    In response to rockfangd

I'm going to assume it was changed at least when the pump was changed. The top of it (the side protected by the plastic thing it mounts on) was pretty clean. But when was that, five years ago? Ten?

You can buy for $20 a repair kit from Dorman but it has about 12" of straight line with it. I'd have to cut most of that off to use it. I almost think if I had to change the end I would go hit the junkyard again and see if there's anything left of the lines on the vans there and splice in a piece with one of those compression fittings. Cheaper.

On my TBI vans where the PSI is just 15 or so and the filter is screwed on, I purposely splice the filter in with a couple sections of fuel line hose so you can just take it off that way and put it in a vise or something if necessary to get it apart. I much prefer working on those.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-26-21 02:21 PM - Post#2813000    
    In response to Bill K.b

Agree. This way you can actually get the box portion of a wrench on all points.

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-30-21 02:10 PM - Post#2813276    
    In response to rockfangd

I wonder what the trick is to actually getting this tank in. New straps don't fit right, to the shock of no one. Tried the original rear strap and almost got it into place, but it cross threaded the nut and twisted the clip off. Brand new. Gee thanks Dorman. I have to drop the tank again to massage the front strap to get it anywhere close to the nut, gee thanks GM for making it this way.

I think with the rear if I go get a bolt that is about 4 inches long I can zip it up in there and it will feed through a slot in the crossmember and who cares if there's extra bolt. Or I can drop a long bolt down from the top and run a nut up from the bottom.

Every single step of this process has been a fight. Even the fuel filter clip, the black insert isn't fully seated and I have to mess with that some more. At least it saved me from having to pull it back off again.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
rockfangd 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 3090
rockfangd
Age: 34
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
01-30-21 05:01 PM - Post#2813289    
    In response to Bill K.b

I have awful luck with that brand.
I typically put a jack under the tank with the strap in place. Jack up the strap with the tank.
If you do the bolt trick, check the post I mentioned about it. It works very nicely.
I feel for you. Been there before enough times

Old School GM fan FOREVER


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
01-30-21 05:31 PM - Post#2813292    
    In response to rockfangd

Even the old strap doesn't quite get close to where it belongs, the bolts in the set are about 2 inches long and I just got it in but of course not at the right angle.

We have a wholesale bolt and fastener place here, getting a long bolt is not an issue, but the front strap and clipped nut has to work because it's blind into the van floor above it. Otherwise I'd just use the cage nut and try and get a longer bolt that would reach and just run it right up as needed.

I compared the straps beforehand and the length seems to be the same, but the edges are curled a bit making them harder to bend or alter. If you put the jack head in the middle, when you push it tight it spreads the strap out instead of just pushing it.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


Edited by Bill K.b on 01-30-21 05:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
02-01-21 02:19 PM - Post#2813422    
    In response to Bill K.b

Took the dorman bolt up to the wholesale place.

Found nuts that fit it, found bolts that fit those nuts. Those bolts don't fit the cage nut.

(insert stream of expletives here)

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
02-18-21 04:13 PM - Post#2814557    
    In response to Bill K.b

So the solution here was to move the jack to the rear, jack the tank up there, then I had enough play to thread in a bolt to a new nut so it wasn't cross threaded.

Up front, I just got a like 110mm bolt and bent the end of the strap some and did the same with the jack and I got it installed. The bolt is longer than it should be but nothing is going anywhere.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15020

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
02-20-21 10:27 AM - Post#2814709    
    In response to Bill K.b

Glad you found a relatively easy solution.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
02-23-21 06:29 PM - Post#2814969    
    In response to wagonman100

I mean the *right* solution would have been to drop the tank and either re-bend the Dorman strap or buy a different brand that's flat enough to bend more easily (O'Reilly has them). This was kind of the lazy solution.

Now if only it had solved the not running problem

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
CowboyTrukr 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4568
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
02-24-21 08:52 PM - Post#2815037    
    In response to Bill K.b

[quote=Bill K.b}

Now if only it had solved the not running problem



ohhhhh. Crud. Sorry to hear that, Bill.

Greg

‘01 Silverado 2500HD 8.1/Allison 1000 Xcab/LB
'00 Explorer XLT 4.0 SOHC V6 Auto
'95 K1500 Z71 EC Short Step 5.7L+0.040/NV3500 SOLD

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke


 
Bill K.b 
Senior Member
Posts: 4497

Loc: upstate NY
Reg: 10-24-05
02-24-21 09:20 PM - Post#2815039    
    In response to CowboyTrukr

Concluded it needs a fuel pressure regulator. Real pain in the butt to change that out. It's under the upper intake plenum.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize it on the internet.

Driving 2002 Express 2500
2002 Express 2500 extended
1988 G20 conversion
1993 GMC 3500 dually

Plus cars for swap and sale
& yes, I once tried a frame swap on a 51 Chevy.


 
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