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Username Post: Help with possible timing issue        (Topic#364066)
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17607
grumpyvette
Age: 73
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
01-26-21 04:37 PM - Post#2813014    
    In response to todintexas

you did the correct thing if the lifters were extensively damaged, I have a piece of PVC pipe cut lengthwise to do similar lifter retrieval if the worn lifters require more than a firm tug to come up and out

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 


grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17607
grumpyvette
Age: 73
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
01-26-21 05:35 PM - Post#2813023    
    In response to grumpyvette

you did the correct thing if the lifters were extensively damaged, I have a piece of PVC pipe cut lengthwise to do similar lifter retrieval if the worn lifters require more than a firm tug to come up and out

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
todintexas 
Newbie
Posts: 18

Reg: 01-21-21
02-02-21 01:20 PM - Post#2813480    
    In response to todintexas

Well we have made some progress, now looking for suggestions on tuning. We tore everything back down, cleaned everything as best we could and flushed the motor, we are not in a position to take it out and rebuild it at this time. Installed a new summit 1103 cam, new lifters, roller tip rockers and new pushrods. Everything lined up perfect and looked good. Royal purple break in oil, the motor is an Edelbrock Performer RPM Manifold and a Summit 600 carburetor. Ignition is a new Summit HEI. Fired abs sounded decent, ran a +/-30 minute break in period at +/-2000 RPM. Pulled the valve covers back off, everything looked good, changed the oil. We set the initial timing at 10? before with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, verified at idle after break in. I was not home but my son took it for a short drive last night, he said off of idle the motor sounds great and feels pretty healthy but that it want to stumble and almost die coming off of idle, IDLE currently set at 850 rpm out of gear. Where would you guys recommend starting the troubleshooting?



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3866

Reg: 04-15-05
02-02-21 02:02 PM - Post#2813483    
    In response to todintexas

"We set the initial timing at 10? before with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, verified at idle after break in. I was not home but my son took it for a short drive last night, he said off of idle the motor sounds great and feels pretty healthy but that it want to stumble and almost die coming off of idle, IDLE currently set at 850 rpm out of gear. Where would you guys recommend starting the troubleshooting?"

AMAZING, all that, and NO info.

Initial timing, 10 deg/BTDC @ 850 rpms? HOW MANY DEGREES WITH VACUUM ADVANCE CONNECTED TO FULL MANIFOLD VACUUM SOURCING???

GET THAT FIXED, AND THE CARB CAN BE SET CORRECTLY. Idle is too high.



 
todintexas 
Newbie
Posts: 18

Reg: 01-21-21
02-02-21 02:24 PM - Post#2813485    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Hmm.. I'm confused by the "no info" but I definitely appreciate all the information and direction. I mentioned we had it at 10 BTDC (yes, I only called it before) We used the information that came with the carb, distributor and the cam which apparently was incorrect. The paperwork for the carburetor says to use that timed port for the advance, the spec sheet in the cam box recommended idle was 850, it does sound too high.If I'm reading correctly, we should be using straight manifold vacuum and not the timed port on the carburetor? Also, it appears we should be providing the timing reading with that hooked up as well as without? Not being sarcastic at all, very grateful for all the help but I'm definitely a novice and want to provide the correct information. My son is at home working on it now, I will tell him to locate a fitting for a direct manifold vacuum and to set the timing at 10? before with that unhooked and then hook it up and check it again, I'll also tell him to turn the idle down, maybe 750 in neutral? (Automatic transmission) thank you all, we are getting there..



 
todintexas 
Newbie
Posts: 18

Reg: 01-21-21
02-02-21 02:25 PM - Post#2813486    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Any vacuum port direct from the manifold will work?



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3866

Reg: 04-15-05
02-04-21 11:13 AM - Post#2813604    
    In response to todintexas

Yes, confused, but, there is hope, IF you give us these specs.

Initial timing?:
Degrees of timing in the vacuum advance?:
Is there a vacuum port on the base of the carb, lower than the throttle plates?:

How many degrees of mechanical advance timing?:

Now, what you are shooting for is an IDLE timing (initial and vacuum advance degrees) between 22 and 24.

Example: initial, 10, vacuum advance degrees, 12, added together, 22, and connected to a full manifold vacuum port on the carb. 22 IDLE degrees.

14 initial, plus 10 vacuum, 24 IDLE degrees.

Now, IF< 10 initial, 22 mechanical, total degrees would be 32, 14 initial, 22 mechanical, total would be 36.

SIMPLE as all get out, now, what are YOUR numbers?



 
Pullnfool 
Newbie
Posts: 2

Age: 70
Loc: Upper lower Michigan
Reg: 01-30-21
02-27-21 06:52 AM - Post#2815188    
    In response to todintexas

Your method of removing the lifters with a cut off pipe confuses me.. Can you send pictures or explain more please.. Thanks in advance..



 
todintexas 
Newbie
Posts: 18

Reg: 01-21-21
02-27-21 07:08 AM - Post#2815193    
    In response to Pullnfool

Yes sir, I would be happy to. I apologize for not having pictures but I will explain as best I can. You take a section of PVC pipe, I don't remember the diameter but it's somewhere around 1". You want the outside diameter to be about the same size as the inside diameter of the cam bushings or bearings. Cut the pipe a little bit longer than the overall length of the Cam itself, and then split down the middle so that you have basically a "1/2 pipe", half moon shape left. Slide that piece of pipe in place of the Cam, through all of the bushings and tell it hit the back of the block. When it is in place like this you can push the lifters down from the valley and they will fall into the pipe one at a time. I use a long magnet to stick in the hole and pull the lifter out. Hope this helps..



 
wagonman100 
Site Ambassador
Posts: 15021

Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
02-27-21 08:17 AM - Post#2815200    
    In response to todintexas

That is a good explanation. I think I could simplify it even further in case it is still unclear to anyone. You are basically making a trough and putting in place of the cam to catch the lifters as you push them down through the bores.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17607
grumpyvette
Age: 73
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
02-27-21 08:47 AM - Post#2815202    
    In response to wagonman100

https://www.amazon.com/Player-Supreme-Golf-T ubes-D...

the thin plastic golf club bag tube organizers are almost ideal,
they are available in 1.25", 1.5" and 2" diameters
as they are easy to modify for retrieving lifters from the cam journals

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
51 AD 3100 
Contributor
Posts: 125

Age: 53
Loc: Grant, AL
Reg: 08-30-20
02-28-21 05:25 AM - Post#2815254    
    In response to grumpyvette

i used a 16" length of oak dowel to get a couple stubborn lifters out of mine.

Life's more fun, in a '51


 


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