Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!

Classic Performance Products Classic Industries
American Auto Wire
Danchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomNu-Relics Power Windows



Username Post: Nascar next gen        (Topic#363164)
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3995
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
11-05-20 06:45 AM - Post#2807026    

Are the next gen car specs already set in stone or is it still under development? I have seen video of two track tests earlier this year.
With the rear diffuser it looks like one of the old IROC cars. Mention of 18" aluminum wheels and 14" wide tires, one single lug nut and possible pneumatic jacks like Indy cars. I believe it was supposed to be put in service in 2021 but has been put off until 2022. Who has the scoop on the new car?

Boog
69 Chevy step
06 GMC ccsb Z71
09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


 


65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4595

Reg: 12-29-02
11-05-20 02:01 PM - Post#2807037    
    In response to Boog

Yes 2022 now. The basics are a spec carbon fiber tub chassis, IRS, 6-speed sequential transmission, 18-inch center lug wheels and fueling via a big hose. NASCAR owns IMSA and it seems the are trying to make the Cup cars more like the IMSA touring cars. Maybe in an attempt to attract ALMS teams and/or manufacturers to also compete in NASCAR? That could also big picture explain changes in NASCAR like the ROVAL races.




 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-05-20 05:41 PM - Post#2807059    
    In response to Boog

I don't think the tires are 14" wide but you pretty much nailed the rest as I understand it. Also don't know about the jacking and fueling one way or the other.

Something has convinced Nascar that IMSA looking cars and road racing is a better marketing direction. My question is why? I don't see IMSA as any more popular than in the recent past, and the teams there are suffering more financially than Nascar teams. Example, Penske team breaking up.




 
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3995
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
11-06-20 05:21 AM - Post#2807079    
    In response to Rick_L

From this Racing News article back in Jan
[https://racingnews.co/2020/01/09/more-on-the -2021-nascar-next-gen-car /] it mentions the IMSA connection, and Nascar owns IMSA. Also mentioned is Honda keeping a close eye on Nascar's changes. For most of Nascar's existence a pushrod V8 engine was required as was available from each car make. To get Toyota into the sport I'm told they had to design a push rod V8. With Nascar trying to attract other foreign makes who do not have V8 engines there is mention of going to a V6. Nascar tried V6 engines many years ago in the Busch series for several years. They weren't that great and as Richard Petty said "it just doesn't sound like a racecar". Everybody likes the roar of a V8 engine.
With these changes the cars really do look a lot more like Trans Am cars and with the increase in the number of road courses that adds to this idea.
I'll bet the new car specs are still not nailed down yet.

Boog
69 Chevy step
06 GMC ccsb Z71
09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


Edited by Boog on 11-06-20 05:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
62BillT 
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5903
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
11-06-20 06:18 AM - Post#2807083    
    In response to Boog

Further moving away from tradition, further alienating their old time fan base.

If they ever be successful, like anything close to where they once were, they're going to need a lot of luck with that.

I'm boycotting Nascar, but as mentioned, still like the racing and the tracks, but that could change too.

Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4595

Reg: 12-29-02
11-06-20 07:07 AM - Post#2807087    
    In response to Rick_L

Considering the loss of market share in both series, maybe longer term big picture will be combining the IMSA touring cars and Cup cars into one series?

My feeling is that allowing too much aero dependency is the most basic problem behind NASCAR demise. That kills the passing and bumping and rubbing that is expected from stock cars.




 
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3995
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
11-06-20 09:09 AM - Post#2807094    
    In response to 65_Impala

I wonder if moving to a series much like the Australian V8 supercar could renew interest in Nascar racing. The V8 supercar specs aren't that much different and I believe they only run road courses. V8 4 door sedans, full tube frames, top speed 186.
https://www.thesupercarscollective.com/inside-supe...
I've watched some of their racing. It is door slamming racing like we are used to on short tracks. I don't know if the world needs two of the same series but maybe use part of it to build new interest in Nascar. And along that line maybe run Nascar's version of V8 supercar series and late in the year join 1/2 a field of Nascar cars and 1/2 a field of Supercars for a world championship race or a short series of races on different types of tracks. The possibilities are interesting.

Boog
69 Chevy step
06 GMC ccsb Z71
09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4595

Reg: 12-29-02
11-06-20 10:33 AM - Post#2807107    
    In response to Boog

Lately, I've been enjoying watching Stadium Super Truck racing. The corner action with the sliding and drifting and inside front wheel off the ground is entertaining. Then you get action like the leader tank slapping and going nose first into the wall which causes the truck to do a 360 all while retaining the lead. Much like watching a truck flip and then get rolled back onto it's wheels so it can re-join the race.




 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-06-20 10:34 AM - Post#2807108    
    In response to Boog

  • Quote:
I'll bet the new car specs are still not nailed down yet.



Yes and no on the specs being nailed down.

The big things are nailed down, and test cars exist. There are suppliers and tooling for the bodies and major components that are spec'd. There will not be "in house" building of chassis and bodies. That's supposed to be the major cost savings. Tires and wheels are spec'd and exist.

So I think the car is 95-98% specified. Plus, as now, things like wing size and the rest of the aero package will always be in play, as will be hp level.

What I've seen on engines is pushrod V8s but smaller, maybe. Plus maybe some kind of "hybrid" gas/electric power. I think the engine packages are not connected timewise to the rest of the introduction. They are still talking about these but not doing yet, so it's too soon for a 2022 introduction. The engine changes is one thing that spurred Childress and Hendrick to pool their engine R&D.

Honda has said more recently they are not interested in Nascar, that their plate is full with Indycar. I think they are also scaling back IMSA (actually Acura which is a Honda company). I have also heard that Volkswagen could be a participant but I don't think it's serious.





 
Boog 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3995
Boog
Loc: Central Arkansas
Reg: 04-28-02
11-06-20 05:45 PM - Post#2807140    
    In response to Rick_L

The last I read Dallara will supply the chassis, someone else will supply the body parts. Engines will be supplied by TRD, Roush/Yates and Hendrick/Childress. 6 speed trans and independent rear suspension.
As said the team's gen 6 notes won't be of much help with the gen 7 car as it will be all new.
Outwardly the new car doesn't look all that different but it is.



Boog
69 Chevy step
06 GMC ccsb Z71
09 Yukon slt 4 wd
All GM...'nuff said!
JR Nation


 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-06-20 07:54 PM - Post#2807149    
    In response to Boog

I had not heard about 6 speed transmissions or IRS. Why would they consider those?

Edit: I did some googling and the 14" wide tires are reported to be in the package. As well as the 6 speed and IRS if the reporting is true. I still wonder why those?



 
pauldian 
Contributor
Posts: 355
pauldian
Loc: seligman,arizona
Reg: 05-14-09
11-08-20 02:44 PM - Post#2807282    
    In response to Rick_L

Just for my information, is their anything that is truly stock ? In n.a.s.c.a.r. :alert :



 
monty56 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1476
monty56
Loc: Chandler(it's a dry heat)...
Reg: 04-26-04
11-09-20 08:45 AM - Post#2807337    
    In response to pauldian

No stock anything in a "Stock Car" and hasn't for many years. The last to go was the body, right after the frame.

Monty
'56 3100 Short Stepside Someday
2001 Chevy Suburban 2500
2009 Saturn Vue w/20's

Member: Desert Classic Chevy's Inc.
Monty's 56 Truck
Avatar is my Truck


 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-09-20 11:26 AM - Post#2807351    
    In response to monty56

  • Quote:
The last to go was the body, right after the frame.



That ship has sailed. 35-40 years ago.





 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Original Founding Member Group
Posts: 5005
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
11-11-20 04:23 PM - Post#2807510    
    In response to Rick_L

You guys are much more up on NASCAR than I am but I happened on a now lost article/pic.
When I read about the 18" rim I wondered about new aspect ratio or same ratio and top of fender bumps for clearance. Came across a pic of b4 and after and though dark it shows a Goodyear tire with a smaller sidewall. I lean toward the smaller the sidewall the better the handling. Add in wider thread equals higher corner entry, mid and exit speeds.
Being able to use a 3 inch larger rotor allows you to brake later on entry. We ran 15" rims on our oval track cars and the 67 Camaro road course car.
Since on the oval all were running 15s no biggie but on the road courses the Corvettes could brake later and did not have the wiggle we had when hard braking.
Is there a way to check alum wheels or do you just replace every race?
With all the 10.9.10.4 lug nut fines that single lug set up concerns me. On those that race with that kind of set up is there a gauge or something that shows it is full tight?
Think that the short track folks will want bigger brakes also? Down the road?
Last item is the picture showed a side view and while a two door, from the back edge of the door to the bumper area a hint of a shortened 4 door.



Edited by Mel Foye on 11-11-20 04:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4595

Reg: 12-29-02
11-11-20 05:30 PM - Post#2807526    
    In response to Mel Foye

I've read claims the aluminum wheels are way more durable and will last longer even possibly more than one season which apparently doesn't happen with the steel wheels.

I also believe NASCAR is going to stop policing the nut torque all together. I also read that the single nut requires a little longer sustained hit with the impact. Maybe the thought is it will go quicker than the fueling so they won't have to rush at the wheels as much or possibly the teams have to get them tight or else they will be right back into the pit to fix it? Overall, I'm not sure how that will play out.



 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-11-20 06:26 PM - Post#2807531    
    In response to 65_Impala

Interesting and valid comments.

On the brakes, I don't know why they'd wait on the short track package to have bigger brakes. That's where the current cars have their biggest brake package (along with the road courses).

On the wheels, I have no idea why an aluminum wheel would outlast a steel wheel. Seems to me that if you hit the wall with a wheel, it's done - won't matter the material. The other thing that tears up wheels is loose lugs, and that will continue.

On monitoring wheel nut tightening, Nascar won't have to. With a single nut, if it's loose, you're done as soon as the car gets to speed and probably before. The teams now monitor pressure in the air line to verify all (or enough) lug nuts are tight. They may still do that so that they can catch a mistake quickly. I saw one comment that the fueling system is going to change, so we don't know the timing yet of changing four tires and tightening four nuts versus the speed of fueling. But the fueling is probably slower.

I'm not sure why they want to increase the cornering traction. Right now they take away aero to reduce it anyway. Get it up there enough, and you have the Indy car situation with cars flying into and through the catch fence. So they'll just be taking it away rather than letting them have the potential provided, at least on the 1.5 mile tracks. Road courses will be faster, but is this needed?





 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Original Founding Member Group
Posts: 5005
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
11-15-20 02:37 PM - Post#2807820    
    In response to 62BillT

  • 62BillT Said:
Further moving away from tradition, further alienating their old time fan base.

I thought a lot about the word tradition Bill and I don't see it as static or having a common starting time.
For me it was about age 13 when racing hit me. A short dirt track outside of Shakopee Minn. After the race I was in the pits and looking over the RACE cars. Yes bent up, beat up and a little rusty covered somewhat by house paint.
I was asking questions to a driver---I could tell he was the real thing because he was dirty and had on a real helmet and a bandana around his lower face.
Behind his seat was a 5 gallon Jerry gas can which was standing up and held in place by one man's belt. The best idea was the dash had a large J hook bolted to it. I learned he raced in second--old 1938? floor shift trans. Shoved it past going in gear so shifter would go in the hoop and couldn't jump out of gear. Cool right??
From there I easily slid into Herb Thomas who wasmy fav and all the way to Marty Robbins and his too big carb.
Somewhere now a young kid will believe Chase is the best of all time and his view of tradition will start.
When did your view of tradition start Bill?






Edited by Mel Foye on 11-15-20 02:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
62BillT 
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5903
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
11-16-20 05:54 AM - Post#2807848    
    In response to Mel Foye

  • Mel Foye Said:
When did your view of tradition start Bill?




To me, Tradition goes all the way back to it's original roots of the first few decades. Three and 4-Speed Transmissions, 5 and 6 Lug Wheels and it's influence of Southern culture. Born out of humble beginnings, Moonshine.

Along with it's strong Patriotic, Military and Christian values.

Sure there have been changes through the years, some we like, some we don't like, but most of that fan base never gave up on Nascar. Till recently. They have definitely crossed, and continue to cross, a threshold of a new era, abandoning the old. The old that actually helped build it.


Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Original Founding Member Group
Posts: 5005
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
11-16-20 08:17 PM - Post#2807907    
    In response to Rick_L

  • Rick_L Said:
I had not heard about 6 speed transmissions or IRS. Why would they consider those?
I have not yet thought it through on gear ratio changes on non clutch trans but down shift I could exit a corner at a higher rpm I may be faster leaving said corner then shift up.
If they are running with two tires on a corner burm
I would think the IRS would help with both rear tire contact.




 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-17-20 02:26 PM - Post#2807953    
    In response to Mel Foye

Thing is Mel, much of what Nascar has been doing for the last 20-30 years has been to take performance away from what it could be. So adding wider tires, 6 speeds, and IRS just adds to performance - which they will commence to take away.



 
monty56 
"16th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1476
monty56
Loc: Chandler(it's a dry heat)...
Reg: 04-26-04
11-18-20 08:29 AM - Post#2808000    
    In response to Rick_L

Maybe Electric motors and WAYMO drivers? :evil :

Monty
'56 3100 Short Stepside Someday
2001 Chevy Suburban 2500
2009 Saturn Vue w/20's

Member: Desert Classic Chevy's Inc.
Monty's 56 Truck
Avatar is my Truck


 
62BillT 
"19th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5903
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
11-19-20 05:24 AM - Post#2808061    
    In response to monty56

I'm just waiting to hear "Automatic Transmissions".

As Nascar moves away from tradition, I have to give them credit in that department, keeping in that Clutch Pedal.

But I wouldn't bet much money on it.

After all, most of the supposedly "New Generation" of young fans can't even drive a Manual.



Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27781
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-19-20 07:00 AM - Post#2808074    
    In response to 62BillT

A good electric motor will eliminate the need for a transmission.



 
57tim 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3094
57tim
Loc: Cameron, Wi, USA
Reg: 11-09-01
11-27-20 05:16 PM - Post#2808787    
    In response to Rick_L

And the fans as well.

57 Bel Air 2dr Ht
327 700r4
http://www.picturetrail.com/tmneid


Edited by 57tim on 11-27-20 05:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

495 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.646 seconds.   Total Queries: 17   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 09:29 PM
Top