Danchuk Catalog Classic Industries
American Auto Wire
Classic Performance Products
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomNu-Relics Power Windows




Username Post: knock-knock        (Topic#361003)
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-17-20 05:51 PM - Post#2794059    

I have been out of pocket for the last 18 months. My car sat this entire time without being started-----until today

this is a new create 350HO. Bought it several years ago but installed it and started it for the first time around 2 years ago. Has about 3 hours run time on it, while sitting on jack stands.

Ran great the last time I started it------18 months ago.

Used either to aid the start.

Just as it was trying to start (but never did), lt had one heck of a very loud knock, which never went away. Tried one more time....no change. Shut it down.

Checked oil before starting, full and clean

The knock I heard (couldn't be in two places at the same time) sound like it may have come from #8 area.

it was a loud banging sound not a tick.

Any ideas on what might be going on.

thank you for your help.
Tom






Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 


acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11364
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-17-20 06:52 PM - Post#2794066    
    In response to Big T

Valve retainer came off. Pull the valve covers.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
steve65 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 836
steve65
Age: 62
Loc: new westminster bc
Reg: 09-25-13
05-19-20 08:40 PM - Post#2794248    
    In response to Big T

Anything new on the noise Tom?
Did you pull a valve cover? Maybe pull all the plugs also?
Steve

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Not sure of color yet
work in progress



 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-20-20 10:11 AM - Post#2794279    
    In response to steve65

hi Steve. that is todays project. I didn't check this before, I don't want to do it now, (cranking it a few times )and check oil pressure. then move on to your and Dons suggestions

I am totally baffled. It is one heck of a knock. I wouldn't think something in the motor, piston rod etc let loose. But!!!!! it started and ran great. Nothing let loose while it was running.

keep you posted
Tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11364
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-20-20 01:10 PM - Post#2794293    
    In response to Big T

I hate to mention it, but there's always the possibility that a nut or bolt fell into an intake runner and finally got sucked into a cylinder.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-21-20 04:41 PM - Post#2794417    
    In response to acardon

well!!! took the covers off, checked the retainers all seem to be ok.

In years past (with other cars) when I pulled the covers, I could see raiments of oil in everywhere. the oil had a few miles on it so it was ez to locate.

Not so here. the oil is fresh and nearly clear. The only place there was substantial oil was "in" the rear drains....both sides and a little under 6-8, 5-7. Nothing on either valve cover----just like it was the day I took the our of the box.

Ran a clean paper towel under the back of the lifters. There was no oil on the towel under 1,3 and2,4.

Did not turn the motor over today to check oil pressure.....Im a chicken.

When the motor was running, 18 months ago, I ran it at idol, medium rpm and a few spikes into the high rpm.

The oil pressure (manual gauge) at startup cold idoll and was around 60psi. At idol with engine @110 degrees, dropped to 40-45 ps.

Changing the RPM, oil pressure was responsive as it should be.

Based on this, it appears the pump is doing its job, or is it

Don can't say for sure that something didn't fall into the manifold, but there was a rag over the carb mouth.

So not sure what to do next. Would dropping the pan help find the problem/damage?

thanks
tom

Last

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11364
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-21-20 05:05 PM - Post#2794420    
    In response to Big T

Have you turned it over by hand, with the plugs out, to see if you feel anything?

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
steve65 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 836
steve65
Age: 62
Loc: new westminster bc
Reg: 09-25-13
05-22-20 02:23 PM - Post#2794499    
    In response to acardon

I agree with turning it over by hand, but my other suggestion of pulling all the plugs still stands. If something is/was inside a cylinder that particular plug may show signs of 'gnarly-ness'. from comming into contact.
Steve

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Not sure of color yet
work in progress



 
steve65 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 836
steve65
Age: 62
Loc: new westminster bc
Reg: 09-25-13
05-22-20 02:25 PM - Post#2794500    
    In response to Big T

You could also pull the distributor and spin the oil pump with a drill to confirm oil pump function.

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Not sure of color yet
work in progress



 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-22-20 02:28 PM - Post#2794501    
    In response to Big T

Just realized that the motor, with clutch assembly and bell housing (no trans) installed. it sat on a floor jack with 2x4 under the oil pan all of this time

Could that have in some way, deformed the pan to a point where a counter weight hits the bottom???

If the possibility exists, I can solve that.

per Dons suggestion, I will turn it by hand first and see what happens.

thanks
Tom



Tom

55 4 door BelAir


Edited by Big T on 05-22-20 02:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5775
56sedandelivery
Age: 68
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
05-22-20 11:32 PM - Post#2794523    
    In response to Big T

Engine was cranked/started WITHOUT a transmission installed? That's where I'd start looking, at the most obvious thing/things. Could have lost the throw-out bearing or throw-out bearing arm, or the clutch disc could have slipped out of "position". Those should be fairly obvious on inspection. Keep everyone posted on the progress. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-23-20 11:45 AM - Post#2794557    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

thanks Butch for the heads up on this one.
Its a hydraulic clutch. Hopefully saved a problem there. Ill check the disc alignment later today or tomorrow

tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
YOUNG57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1204

Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 12-06-10
05-23-20 05:54 PM - Post#2794579    
    In response to Big T

“Just realized that the motor, with clutch assembly and bell housing (no trans) installed. it sat on a floor jack with 2x4 under the oil pan all of this time.”

Are you saying this motor IS sitting on the floor on 2x4s and you start it periodically with a battery and oil pressure gauge hooked up?




 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5612

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
05-23-20 09:09 PM - Post#2794595    
    In response to Big T

there are different kinds of knocks. piston knock will come from the top of the engine. rod or main knock will come from the bottom of the engine. pan knock will sound like pounding on the pan at the bottom of the engine. i would pull all the plugs, rotate the engine by hand to feel if there is a bind. and get a bore scope to check the cylinders. a bore scope is a very useful tool and well worth the cost if you ask me.if you get one get the smallest diameter head. as you rotate the engine you need to look at the valves to see if they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. also pull the distribiter cap to see if its doing what its supposed to be doing.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
toms57 
Senior Member
Posts: 529

Loc: Caney, Ks, USA
Reg: 10-28-01
05-24-20 12:12 PM - Post#2794651    
    In response to bobb

I would verify the throw out brg / clutch area first then I would start pulling the heads and on down until I found the problem.


Toms57










 
HYPR 
"17h Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 10782
HYPR
Age: 68
Loc: Shaking and Burning!
Reg: 07-19-01
05-24-20 03:32 PM - Post#2794677    
    In response to toms57

Tom,
Do you have or can you take a picture of how the engine is sitting in the engine bay from underneath? If it is just sitting on a on a floor jack with 2x4 under the oil pan then yes the oil pan can be dented and the crank is hitting it inside. You really should have the engine sitting on the motor mounts bolted in place and if no tranny installed that is a simple fix using a 2 foot piece of angle iron or square tubing bolted to two small sections of angle iron bolted to the two lower tranny mounting holes then drilling into the larger angle iron or section of square tubing (at right angles) making a small stand. Far safer and no risk of damaging anything. Cost would be under $30 and take about an hour to make and install.
Now, back to your noise, I would check the oil pan for dents first.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/222599
To be born a Redneck is by chance, to live as one is by choice!
Preserving the Redneck tradition one day at a time!


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-25-20 03:00 PM - Post#2794800    
    In response to YOUNG57

350HO create. Car is on jack stands. has 3-4 hours run time.

Under the hood is completely finished

It is all dialed in and ready for the trans to be mounted.

in the mean time, the back of the motor has been supported....for a long time....... by a floor jack with a 2x4 cushion on top.

tom


Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-25-20 03:16 PM - Post#2794803    
    In response to bobb

this knock best described is like a big sledge hammer banging on the block. Just a "dead" thump.

I do have a pretty good bore sight. will start looking as suggest.

hopefully I can identify which side the sound is coming from,

thanks all
tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-25-20 03:23 PM - Post#2794806    
    In response to acardon

Hi Don this is starting to look like its heading in that direction. I do keep a rag over the carb when it is not running, this makes it a even more of a mystery. But............

checked all of the peripherals and nothing is loose
tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-25-20 03:34 PM - Post#2794811    
    In response to HYPR

Hey Bob
Been awhile. Hope all is well.

The motor is on it mounts. the jack is just holding up the back end standing in for the trans mount.

Tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
55Sedan210 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8
55Sedan210
Reg: 12-21-17
05-26-20 04:41 AM - Post#2794857    
    In response to Big T

Definitely gotta start at the beginning and prime motor with a drill, remove all plugs and turn over by hand while doing so. If it gets oil pressure and feels smooth, roll it over with the starter, ignition unplugged. If that seems good, reinsert plugs and roll over again, still no ignition. Finally try to fire if all is quiet.

Also, starters can make a racket if loose or damaged.



 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-27-20 03:18 PM - Post#2795004    
    In response to 55Sedan210

will do, thank you. tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-30-20 12:05 AM - Post#2795237    
    In response to Big T

a friend suspects a piece of carbon broke loss. can that happen with only 3-4 hours run time. tom

Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11364
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-30-20 07:43 AM - Post#2795244    
    In response to Big T

Not likely had time to build up any carbon.

I don't think I could sleep, not knowing what was wrong with a almost new engine. Have you done any trouble shooting (looked at plugs, rotated by hand, checked flywheel, etc.)?
We're curious!

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


Edited by acardon on 05-30-20 07:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Big T 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Membe
Posts: 2745
Big T
Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
05-30-20 12:42 PM - Post#2795267    
    In response to acardon

Don
I have not had a day to myself in almost two weeks. So, none of the things suggested have been done. I hope I can get this stuff taken care of this coming week.

It's really bothering me as well. I need to find the problem. One of my biggest concerns/fears is taking off at least the heads if not the entire motor coming out and taken to a shop to repair damage if any.......wish-full thinking.
tom


I will keep all posted as I move along with this problem



Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Original58 
Contributor
Posts: 543
Original58
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Reg: 10-30-13
05-31-20 07:22 PM - Post#2795348    
    In response to Big T

Hi.
Not normally in this section but read your post and noticed you mention that you used ether to aid in starting. Being highly volatile its not usually used in gas engines...and I hesitate to use it in diesels. Have you considered the possibilty that you may have damaged a rod or cracked a piston?
Ether is extremely hard on a motor.
Jeff

1958 Biscayne 283 Turbo-Glide 31,000 mi (now 35,000 and counting) driven daily
1966 Mustang Inline 6- C4 57,000 mi and growing daily
1929 Graham - Paige 612- the eternal headache that I will never sell


 


Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

596 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.17 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 08:44 PM
Top