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Username Post: question for stick shift guys        (Topic#360810)
66cayne 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2888
66cayne
Reg: 08-06-08
05-05-20 10:55 AM - Post#2792842    

I installed my My M22 Muncie using the factory linkage and correct b-body only shift fork. To get the clutch pedal correctly adjusted with about an inch or so of free play before the throwout bearing touches the pressure plate springs, I had to loosen the set screws and move the cross-shaft adjuster almost all the way down to the end of the pedal rod. It works fine but I'm not going to have much adjustment as the clutch wears. I used the short throwout bearing (vs. the long style bearing) and now I'm thinking I might have used the wrong one. Thoughts?



 


62BillT 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5866
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
05-05-20 11:22 AM - Post#2792846    
    In response to 66cayne

I learned the hard way to always go by what clutch you have in there and what the books says on what throw out bearing should go with it.

I once went by my own judgement years ago and had the opposite problem. I used what I thought should have been the long and when I put it together, it slipped. Not only did I have to take it apart again, but it cost me another bearing. I was wondering why I had trouble getting the trans in, lol.

Now in my truck today, I went by what the parts store told me. I put it all together, got in the truck and the pedal dropped to the floor. Thought I forgot about the clutch rod, but I didn't. I called the parts store and was told that they gave me the wrong one. I told them that they need to change that in their computer system and as we were talking, he said, "I already did".

It's still in there today. Did not feel like taking it apart again and I'm just living with a pedal that grabs low. Till I pull it again. I picked up a 4-Speed for it.

Hopefully you will know what clutch you have in there.

Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
DZAUTO 
Member #51
Posts: 8906

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
05-05-20 12:26 PM - Post#2792851    
    In response to 62BillT

I rarely (almost never) get on this forum (64 is my limit), but this one caught my attention.
Over the years, I've observed that many people do not have a good comprehension of clutch/bearing relationship.
First, one simple thing is that Chevy used two bearings, and two styles of clutches (diaphragm that is). RARELY are the 3-finger Borg and Beck style clutches used these days.
The Diaphragm clutches are either flat finger (low-perf applications) and bent (or cone) finger types. MOST clutch applications today use the bent finger style clutch.

Now, here is the thing to keep in mind.
Flat finger clutches use the LONG bearing.
Bent finger clutches use the SHORT bearing.
That's basically all that needs to be remembered.

FACTORY Chevrolet clutch setups and bell housings and throwout bearing forks ----------- HAVE HAD THE SAME GEOMETRY SINCE 1955!
There have been multiple types of throwout bearing forks --------------- BUUUUUUUUUUUUT, FROM THE BALL STUD TO THE END OF THE FORK WHERE IT ENGAGES THE THROWOUT BEARING, THE BACK AND FORTH MOVEMENT OF THE BEARING BY THE FORK IS THE SAME!!!
From the back of the bell housing where the transmission mates, to the back of the block where the bell housing mates ----------------IS THE SAME DIMENSION FOR ALL CHEVY BLOCKS- HOUSINGS- TRANSMISSIONS SINCE 1955. Thus, the travel of the bearing on the front bearing retainer of the transmission is the same. THE DIFFERENCE OCCURS WHEN A FLAT FINGER DIAPHRAGM AND LONG BEARING OR BENT FINGER DIAPHRAGM AND SHORT BEARING ARE USED!

Last, regardless of what bell housing is used, the fork and linkage should be what is correct for the car -------------- NOT the bell housing, NOT the transmission. for example, A cast iron bell housing for a 55 Chevy can be used on a 427 in a 66 Impala ----------- BUT THE FORK AND LINKAGE NEEDS TO BE FOR THE 66 IMPALA.
Or, in reverse, a 1968 bell housing can be used on a 1955 Chevy with a 265 engine, but the fork and linkage need to be for the 55 Chevy.



 
62chevy427 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2188
62chevy427
Loc: laurens sc
Reg: 04-13-06
05-05-20 04:47 PM - Post#2792891    
    In response to DZAUTO

many moons ago when i put a 427 in my 62 i used a corvette (i think) 11 inch clutch and pplate. could not get the throwout bearing to work. short one too short,long one too long to release properly. i wound up taking a short one and a long one apart and using the housing of the actual bearing made a medium length one. that worked and has worked since the early 80s.

56 bel air ((since 2002)
62 impala ss (since 1965)
65 el camino (since 1969)
66 nova (since 1987)
67 malibu convertible (since 1981)
72 el camino ss454 (since 1985)
83 gmc 4wd (since 1991)
95 impala (new)
15 chevy equinox



 
62BillT 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5866
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
05-05-20 07:41 PM - Post#2792912    
    In response to 62chevy427

  • 62chevy427 Said:
many moons ago when i put a 427 in my 62 i used a corvette (i think) 11 inch clutch and pplate. could not get the throwout bearing to work. short one too short,long one too long to release properly. i wound up taking a short one and a long one apart and using the housing of the actual bearing made a medium length one. that worked and has worked since the early 80s.



I put a 396 in my '62 also with a 427 Clutch, but believe it was the smaller one. It fit perfect in my 327 Bell. That's the time I grabbed a Long Throw Out instead of a Short.


Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1639
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
05-05-20 08:03 PM - Post#2792914    
    In response to 62BillT

Some images showing the difference,

Long (flat) vs short (bent) finger style clutch, or the Short/Long throwout style,


Long finger,


Short finger,


Both side by each, both sit at the same height regardless,


1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
65acadian 
Member
Posts: 231
65acadian
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Reg: 08-15-04
05-05-20 10:41 PM - Post#2792918    
    In response to mjc1

Wow those pictures look familiar Mark!

One more thing to remember, there's two different heights for the clutch fork pivot ball that screws into the bellhousing. The choices are 1 13/16" or 1 1/3" tall. Believe me, you need the correct one. The wrong one makes a ridiculous difference in clutch adjustment position.



 
Johnny468 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 816
Johnny468
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
05-06-20 04:16 AM - Post#2792930    
    In response to 66cayne

Here's a possible solution for your linkage adjustment issue. I've run this setup for years and it works great.

https://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/rod-links

I actually have a Chevelle style bent fork with short bearing, adjustable pivot ball and this linkage and I was able to get the geometry dialed in correctly.

Johnny



1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/3.90


 
66cayne 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2888
66cayne
Reg: 08-06-08
05-06-20 07:31 AM - Post#2792942    
    In response to Johnny468

Thanks for the tips guys. Here is a pic of the Ram clutch/pressure plate I'm running with the short style bearing.



Attachment: ram-98764_ds_ml.jpg (9.39 KB) 10 View(s)


Ram Clutch/Pressure Plate




Edited by 66cayne on 05-06-20 07:32 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1639
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
05-06-20 07:36 AM - Post#2792943    
    In response to Johnny468

I like that rod end setup Johnny. Might just do that myself. Price isn't too bad either.

On top of ensuring all the geometry is correct, as Johnny suggests, you could also use an adjustable pivot ball to build in a little more adjustment.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lak-15501



1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
Johnny468 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 816
Johnny468
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
05-06-20 10:08 AM - Post#2792971    
    In response to mjc1

If you go with the rod-end linkage you may need to fab up a couple spacers to get everything lined up properly but it's well worth the effort. Super smooth and never needs lubed.

I've had mine in the car for probably 15 years with zero issues.

Johnny

1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/3.90


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5635

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
05-06-20 09:04 PM - Post#2793046    
    In response to 66cayne

everything is so chop suey these days. get an adjustable pivot ball and an adjustable t o bearing from mcleod. that will give you a good start. after that its all about the geometry.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
DZAUTO 
Member #51
Posts: 8906

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
05-07-20 08:54 AM - Post#2793078    
    In response to bobb

An adjustable ball stud is also an excellent way to go.
Over the years, I've noticed that the BIG truck bell housings have adjustable ball studs. That may be a good source to locate one. Big truck housings are easily identified from car housings because they have the big extra bulge on the bottom.

Here is a truck housing compared with a small and large car housing.



Attachment: 486-Truck_housing.JPG (31.35 KB) 3 View(s)




Attachment: DSCN0594.JPG (478.19 KB) 4 View(s)






 
ImpalaSam 
Newbie
Posts: 36

Loc: Inman, SC
Reg: 07-02-09
05-07-20 10:00 AM - Post#2793089    
    In response to DZAUTO

The truck bellhousing will most likely have a larger bore for the transmission as they are made for a different transmission that had a larger front bearing retainer.



 
DZAUTO 
Member #51
Posts: 8906

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
05-07-20 12:58 PM - Post#2793105    
    In response to ImpalaSam

  • ImpalaSam Said:
The truck bellhousing will most likely have a larger bore for the transmission as they are made for a different transmission that had a larger front bearing retainer.



That is exactly correct. And adapter rings are readily available.
I spend some time on the Chevelle forum and several of the Chevelle guys have truck housings and use the adapter ring for their Muncies, 5 and 6sp trannys.




Attachment: Truckbelladapterring_1_.jpg (81.01 KB) 4 View(s)




Attachment: Truckbelladaptringinstld_1_.jpg (96.96 KB) 3 View(s)






 
niftyfive 
Member
Posts: 186

Loc: Durango, Colorado
Reg: 02-07-05
05-12-20 07:21 AM - Post#2793587    
    In response to DZAUTO



NIFTYFIVE


 
bigbowtielover 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2583
bigbowtielover
Loc: Surrey British Columbia
Reg: 09-01-13
05-24-20 07:44 PM - Post#2794703    
    In response to niftyfive

'55 bellhousing also has side mounts on it instead of transmission mount on trans tailshaft housing.



 


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