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Username Post: Frame crack        (Topic#360374)
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-02-20 03:24 PM - Post#2790141    

I to stop looking so close. Cleaning off the rust I found a frame crack over the rear spring rear mount. The crack is only on the side of the frame, not on the outside top or bottom. The white stuff is Hirsh rust remover I plan on stop drilling the crack then welding a 1/4 “ flat plate doubler about a foot long. What do you think on how to proceed? I am working in my home garage and can’t fabricate anything. Advice please.

Thanks guys

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tommy49 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2895
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
04-02-20 04:28 PM - Post#2790149    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

Grind all the crud off, down to bare metal, to see what you really have. There could be more damage.

Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 4.8/4L60E swap in progress, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...




 
Mike JW 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1450
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
04-02-20 05:00 PM - Post#2790152    
    In response to tommy49

I'm with Tommy get it clean so you can really see what you have drill your holes and then weld it up.



 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-02-20 05:45 PM - Post#2790160    
    In response to Mike JW

Thanks guys, I will take your advice and get my grinder out.



 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3387

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
04-02-20 10:36 PM - Post#2790177    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

I have found that an air powered needle scaler cleans rust away faster and easier than using a grinding wheel. Also a lot easier to control on the surfaces you are working on.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
tommy49 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2895
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
04-03-20 05:10 AM - Post#2790186    
    In response to junky

  • junky Said:
I have found that an air powered needle scaler cleans rust away faster and easier than using a grinding wheel. Also a lot easier to control on the surfaces you are working on.



The needler will clean crud and rust off, but, in my opinion, don't leave the best surface for welding, especially in a crack.


Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 4.8/4L60E swap in progress, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...




 
johnwd98 
Contributor
Posts: 457
johnwd98
Age: 70
Loc: Little Falls, MN
Reg: 09-05-10
04-03-20 05:35 AM - Post#2790190    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

Pretty sure that's not just a crack. It's a rusted out section. I had a similar looking area on my frame near the front by the cowl. There was a mouse nest in that spot. Had to cut out and replace with a section about 1.5"X 10-12".

1950 Fleetline, 355 TBI, mild cam, 700R4, 3.73 posi rear Blazer axle, MII front. Remote door and trunk locks, GM cruise control, A/C,


 
40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 695

Age: 74
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
04-03-20 04:55 PM - Post#2790257    
    In response to johnwd98

When metal cracks, it is usually the result of continuous flexing that work hardens the metal. Eventually the metal becomes brittle resulting in the crack. Welding the crack may very well not solve the problem as the material is now damaged to the point it will merely crack again next to the weld.

If the damage is the result of rust behind the panel it really needs to be opened up anyway in case the damage is bad enough to effect the integrity of the panel. An experienced welder should be able to give you advice on what they can do with it. You obviously have been down this road before with the area up front.

Good luck, I hope that is the only trouble spot. I will say, on my '53 it was so bad I bought a parts car in order to get a good frame.

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


Edited by 40grit on 04-03-20 04:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-03-20 05:08 PM - Post#2790260    
    In response to 40grit

Thanks everyone. I am going to start by sand blasting the area and see what turns up. It may just be rot rather than a fracture as is pointed out. It just never seems to end with this 52.

Thanks again

Doug



 
Mike JW 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1450
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
04-03-20 07:33 PM - Post#2790268    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

Good Luck with what ever it takes.



 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5775
56sedandelivery
Age: 68
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
04-04-20 12:09 AM - Post#2790273    
    In response to Mike JW

OOPS!!! Posted to the wrong thread.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




Edited by 56sedandelivery on 04-04-20 12:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-04-20 12:57 PM - Post#2790300    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

Well I cleaned up the “crack” which turned out to be rot. It seems to be solid at the top and the plate riveted to the frame for the spring mount. My only choice is to weld a 1/4” flat plate to the frame 12” long by height of the frame. Anything else is beyond my capabilities and funds, so short of giving up ( which won’t happen ) I plan on doing that. I will probably do the same on the passenger side.

1 last question, would you rest the car on the frame in front of the forward mount for the rear spring mount before welding or doesn’t it matter? Currently it sitting on the tires.

Thanks again for everyone’s advice. BTW sand blasting with my small blaster did nothing so I grabbed my grinder.

Doug

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dsacton 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1247
dsacton
Loc: Boulder, CO
Reg: 11-01-11
04-04-20 01:42 PM - Post#2790302    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

I've nothing to offer you but encouragement. I have so much respect for people who know how to do this kind of metal repair! I'm looking forward to seeing how you make out.



Scott Acton
1954 Chevy Bel Air 2-door
http://www.my54chevy.com


 
drew1987 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3590
drew1987
Age: 32
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
04-04-20 02:06 PM - Post#2790304    
    In response to dsacton

I’m open to correction but here’s what I’d do: cut away until you’ve got very solid metal in a simple shape. Reproduce the shape with cardboard and trim until precise. Trace to 1/8 plate and cut out, tack a tab on it to hold it in place, bevel it and the frame and fill it in with as much speed as possible while still getting good penetration. Do not super heat the metal there. I’d probably use .025 wire and go as fast as possible. Get your face right in there and have at it. Best of luck

And it never ends with any of these cars haha. Good luck

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
tommy49 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2895
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
04-04-20 02:14 PM - Post#2790306    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

If you have a welder and a grinder, it's a very doable repair. Straight cuts to remove the rot, straight cut pieces to fill the spaces, weld in. Removing the rivets & brace would be needed. This is where skills are learned.

Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 4.8/4L60E swap in progress, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...




 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-04-20 04:31 PM - Post#2790315    
    In response to drew1987

Drew,

You wouldn’t use 1/4” plate?

Thanks,

Doug



 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-04-20 05:18 PM - Post#2790321    
    In response to tommy49

Tommy,

Thanks for the advice. Would keeping the weight on the spring while I weld set up a later stress point or doesn’t it matter?

Doug



 
40grit 
Contributor
Posts: 695

Age: 74
Loc: Chattanooga, Tn
Reg: 07-08-13
04-04-20 06:39 PM - Post#2790329    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

It is good to use a material similar to the frame itself. It is probably 11ga which is 1/8 inch. I certainly would go no thinner though.

John

Just Slightly Abrasive


 
tommy49 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2895
tommy49
Loc: Kaleva, Michigan
Reg: 09-28-12
04-04-20 07:09 PM - Post#2790332    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

  • Doug52sedandelivery Said:
Tommy,

Thanks for the advice. Would keeping the weight on the spring while I weld set up a later stress point or doesn’t it matter?

Doug



Shouldn't, frame's held in place with body mount bolts, but While up on jack stands, put a floor jack under the rear axle, just to take that weight off.


Tommy

49 Deluxe Sport Coupe, 4.8/4L60E swap in progress, Blazer rear axle, 4 wheel power disc brakes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyfortynine /album...




 
2D51STYDLX 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1113
2D51STYDLX
Loc: So. Prairie Washington
Reg: 03-03-11
04-05-20 08:42 AM - Post#2790365    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

I would try to lace up the hole then add a piece of angle iron, drill holes in the a iron where the rivets are so it sets flush. ?

Roger
1951 2 door Deluxe Bone stock, well not quite, bucket seats.
Broken hearts and dirty windows
Make life difficult to see
Thats why last night and this morning
Always look the same to me
John Prine



 
drew1987 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3590
drew1987
Age: 32
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
04-10-20 05:20 AM - Post#2790796    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

  • Doug52sedandelivery Said:
Drew,

You wouldn’t use 1/4” plate?

Thanks,

Doug



I personally always try to match materials. all of this stuff flexes, and quarter plate would much less so, which would cause a problem

Speed is important too, so as to not over heat, and 1/8 with 025 wire would be nice and fast

You got this =) if you dont have a welder and a grinder, time to get one (harbor freight is just fine for the DIYer starting out, if you have extra money get a miller or whatever)

get a much of scrap from your local steel supplier and do some practicing and youtubing


Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
drew1987 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3590
drew1987
Age: 32
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
04-10-20 05:30 AM - Post#2790798    
    In response to drew1987

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pa... if you wanna spend $1200 but research "commercial power"

Cheap but 240v https://www.harborfreight.com/welding/welders/170-...

Happy medium? https://www.harborfreight.com/welding/welders/mig-...

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


Edited by drew1987 on 04-10-20 05:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1203
cbmkr56
Age: 64
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
04-10-20 11:09 AM - Post#2790825    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

have you cut that section out. I have good frames we are using for parts.



 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-10-20 02:31 PM - Post#2790837    
    In response to drew1987

Drew,

I have a MIG from Eastwood. Haven't got to it yet. Still working on inner and outer rockers try to get them to fit to the door. Still have a drivers rear front quarter panel to weld in.

Thanks for your help

Doug



 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-10-20 02:34 PM - Post#2790838    
    In response to cbmkr56

cbmkr56,

I haven't gotten to it yet. I am still doing other things first. Should get to it shortly. It seems to be paper thin above the area I already cut out so I still need to grind some more. Its good to know you have frame parts.

Thanks,

Doug



 
drew1987 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3590
drew1987
Age: 32
Loc: Rochester, New York
Reg: 02-23-14
04-10-20 04:03 PM - Post#2790847    
    In response to Doug52sedandelivery

Oh good!

Yea maybe nice to cut a rectangle out an inch higher or so

Good luck

Andrew D. Carapella (Drew)

'50 Deluxe 4dr v8 auto

Member:

Rochester Street Rods - Est. 1970
http://www.rochesterstreetrods.org

CrossMembers Car Club - Hebrews 12:2
http://www.crossmemberscc.com


 
Doug52sedandelivery 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 16
Doug52sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Eddyville KY
Reg: 01-22-20
04-15-20 02:14 PM - Post#2791219    
    In response to drew1987

Well here is my finished product. Not pretty welds but solid and good penetration. The frame metal was around 13 gauge with the rust cleaned off. I mic’d it to check. I used 11 gauge to make the patch. Had trouble when puddle came to a dimple in the frame from rust. It would blow through. I added the angle iron because the frame in that area by the spring Mount was rotted. Seems solid now when hit with a ball peen. I am happy with it now.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions from everyone.

Doug

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