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Username Post: Rag joint issue        (Topic#360303)
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-28-20 11:14 AM - Post#2789637    

I was putting my 66 back together and the reconnecting the Steering I found 2 issues.

One: The joint seems too far apart.

Two: The Rag joint seems to be ripped.

Thanks for any advise you can give.

How would I make the joints closer? (move the steering box coupler closer to shaft?)



Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-28-20 11:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1626
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-28-20 12:18 PM - Post#2789639    
    In response to brickwhite

Wow! Is your steering column too far into the cab? Has to be. There is no give to the box on frame, and a very minuscule amount with the joint on the box shaft splines.
Stock column?

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-28-20 05:29 PM - Post#2789671    
    In response to mjc1

I replaced the frame.

Stock same year 66 frame, and just moved the steering box from one to the other. All mounts lined up on new frame.

View before I tried to attach:


Steering column is stock. Not sure what would move it?



before I put the body down.

Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-28-20 05:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
steve65 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 836
steve65
Age: 62
Loc: new westminster bc
Reg: 09-25-13
03-28-20 05:29 PM - Post#2789672    
    In response to brickwhite

That is some scary looking crap right there. I may be way off base but I think you are two small pieces of material away from losing your steering altogether.
Steve65

Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Not sure of color yet
work in progress



 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-28-20 05:44 PM - Post#2789676    
    In response to steve65

Glad I caught it, but now how do I fix it.

Will the column move closer any how?

I ordered a new Steering Coupler.

Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-28-20 05:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4458

Reg: 12-29-02
03-28-20 06:11 PM - Post#2789677    
    In response to brickwhite

I'm not sure what's wrong, but the rubber disk should be flat.

Check where the column bolts under the dash and see if you could push it further towards the firewall.

I'm pretty sure both sides of the coupler are held with a pinch bolt that goes through a notch in the shaft. Meaning you can't move either side very far on the shaft. Certainly nothing close to what you need it to move. Besides, moving either end that much would have it close to falling off the shaft.



 
YOUNG57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1204

Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 12-06-10
03-28-20 06:20 PM - Post#2789678    
    In response to brickwhite

Perhaps the body is setting too far back on the frame. Since the steering gear is mounted to the frame and the steering column is mounted to the body maybe the body needs to be adjusted forward.



 
Bad56Sedan 
"13th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1245
Bad56Sedan
Loc: Pasadena, Texas
Reg: 04-29-04
03-28-20 06:22 PM - Post#2789679    
    In response to brickwhite

I'm just asking,
If you can't move the column forward, would you need to move the whole body forward?
As suggested it unfortunately looks that way, but I would sure look to see if you can move the column forward.
Just a question.
Just merely asking.


VC56S 2 door Sedan, 40 Years

[image]https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/fbbavatars/a v-3564-1354211547.jpg[/image]


Edited by Bad56Sedan on 03-28-20 06:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
59fins 
Member #212 "19th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2330
59fins
Age: 59
Loc: Surprise Az USA
Reg: 04-07-00
03-28-20 07:51 PM - Post#2789682    
    In response to brickwhite

Couple of questions may eliminate or direct you to the "fix"
1. The rag joint in the first picture, is it the original one you took out? and did di you ever remove it from the steering gear out side of the 2 bolts?
2. Did you at any time take the column out of the body? from it's original position?

I have that same rag joint in my hand, clearly the 2 "studs" on the steering gear side of the joint need to be inside the other half that mounts on the column. (for safety)

And by the first pic, it appears your about an inch or 2 short, in the 67 there is a little wiggle room to move the column forward, since the gear is stationary, not much.

When you replaced the frame, did you have to cut holes to make the bushings fit? Do you have the old frame to verify the centerline of the hole, such as any hole in front of the steering gear measure back to centerline of the front body bushing since the body is no longer on old frame.

That would be a quick tell, And are you sure your cars new frame is what it is? Positively?

That rag joint in pic 2 does not look torn, and that gap is pretty big.

66 offered several different columns is why I ask if it was the original column, it appears from the pic it was never removed unless there is a better pic?

same rag joint, original column never removed equals body is in the wrong place on the frame I'm afraid

Bill H.
67 Impala SS




 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 06:32 AM - Post#2789697    
    In response to 59fins

1. The rag joint in the first picture, is it the original one you took out? and did di you ever remove it from the steering gear out side of the 2 bolts?

I never removed the rag joint, it's the same one that was on the steering box on my old frame just took out the 2 bolts that connect it and unbolted it from the old frame an bolted it to the new frame.

2. Did you at any time take the column out of the body? from it's original position?

No,Column is the original and was not removed by me, I've only owned the car 8 months.



I didn't cut any holes in the new frame. I did shave the bushings down the fit the smaller radius of the frame holes. But the bushing was still centered.

All the bushing and bolts lined up with in 1/8".

If I moved the body back 1/2" or move they would all be off. The bumpers all went back on and lined up just fine. If the body was off the bumpers wouldn't fit.

You mentioned they offered different columns in 66. This is a SS with console shifter not a column shift. Did a SB car have different column than a BB car? Does that matter?

Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-29-20 08:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
sz0k30 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 461
sz0k30
Loc: Oakland Co., Michigan
Reg: 10-12-08
03-29-20 07:32 AM - Post#2789702    
    In response to brickwhite

DO NOT drive that car!!! Something is very F'ed up.



 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 08:05 AM - Post#2789706    
    In response to sz0k30

She's not running yet...

I won't till that steering is fixed...




What does the circled bolts hold? Top and bottom. If loosened will you be able to extend the column shaft?

Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-29-20 08:36 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1626
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-29-20 08:57 AM - Post#2789711    
    In response to brickwhite

That bolt allows some movement of the lower bearing retainer. It's independent of the shaft. So no, it won't allow the shaft down.
Is this the original box?

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 11:23 AM - Post#2789724    
    In response to mjc1

it was the box that was on my old frame before I swapped new frame.

This is the old box...that came with the new frame had water in it, looks similar.



Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-29-20 11:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Rick Dorion 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 274
Rick Dorion
Loc: Accord, NY
Reg: 09-21-12
03-29-20 11:27 AM - Post#2789725    
    In response to brickwhite

Ted, are you sure the replacement frame is identical?

1967 Belair - perfect floor, frame and pinchwelds. Oh boy.


 
pro552000 
Newbie
Posts: 32

Reg: 10-09-15
03-29-20 11:38 AM - Post#2789727    
    In response to Rick Dorion

You might need to run the vin numbers on that frame to find out just what car it came out of.

Loren.


 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 11:41 AM - Post#2789729    
    In response to pro552000

The bumper holes, radiator support holes, and everything else lined up.



Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-29-20 11:43 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1626
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-29-20 11:54 AM - Post#2789730    
    In response to brickwhite

If different, this would be the first time I've EVER heard of the box mounting holes being in a different spot on the 65-70 B Frame. But we do learn something new all the time.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5611

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
03-29-20 12:31 PM - Post#2789735    
    In response to brickwhite

i would toss the rag joint and get a real u joint. all the big gearbox makers should have them. up under the dash where the column mounts normaly there are slotted holes that mount the bracket and a clamp at the floor

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1626
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-29-20 02:58 PM - Post#2789746    
    In response to bobb

It's obvious the problem isn't the joint.

Either the body or box is wrong. I'll eat my words if the frame holes are different. Can't be.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
A White Sport Coupe 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 426
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
03-29-20 04:00 PM - Post#2789754    
    In response to brickwhite

Here's a picture looking straight down at it. Perhaps you can use it for a reference. For example how does it orient with the clutch cross shaft? How much of the column tube protrudes from the firewall?

Attachment: DSCN2932.JPG (723.54 KB) 13 View(s)




Attachment: DSCN2934.JPG (743.47 KB) 13 View(s)




Bob


 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 04:28 PM - Post#2789756    
    In response to A White Sport Coupe

The old joint was pretty rough shape.

but it still seems 3/4" further than it is supposed to be.

Does the couple need to be pushed all the way down?











Ted


Edited by brickwhite on 03-29-20 04:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
A White Sport Coupe 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 426
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
03-29-20 04:44 PM - Post#2789758    
    In response to brickwhite

Brick,

Yes, those two pegs must be fully engaged with the flange at the end of the column.

Bob


 
brickwhite 
Contributor
Posts: 120
brickwhite
Loc: Missouri
Reg: 09-05-19
03-29-20 04:47 PM - Post#2789759    
    In response to A White Sport Coupe

no, I mean on the steering box, does it have to be pushed all the way down?

Ted


 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1626
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
03-29-20 05:39 PM - Post#2789763    
    In response to brickwhite

Seriously

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4458

Reg: 12-29-02
03-29-20 07:13 PM - Post#2789768    
    In response to brickwhite

  • brickwhite Said:
no, I mean on the steering box, does it have to be pushed all the way down?



YES. The bolt in the coupler goes through that gap in the splines. So, the coupler must be put on that much and there really is not much play to slide it any closer to the column before the bolt hits the side of that gap.

The flange on the bottom of the column is about the right amount away from the end of the column tube.

The gap between the column and the dash trim looks about right. It might be able to move the column a little but nowhere near the amount of movement you need.

I do agree that the box mounting holes are all the same on these frames so it's not a wrong frame issue.

I don't see anything in your pictures that is obviously wrong and causing your issue.




 
Crusty66 
"7th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 389
Crusty66
Age: 60
Loc: Albany, eNZed
Reg: 11-04-12
03-29-20 08:25 PM - Post#2789769    
    In response to 65_Impala

Don't these have a collapsible steering column?

Did you replace the frame due to accident damage? If so, the inner column might have collapsed, which will make it too short. The inner column shaft assy. is made of two parts, one telescopes inside the other.

Steve
1966 Caprice 396 496 496mkII TH400


 
bigred65 
Contributor
Posts: 298
bigred65
Age: 37
Loc: Kenmore WA
Reg: 03-18-13
03-29-20 09:12 PM - Post#2789771    
    In response to Crusty66

From what I understand gm started using collapsible steering columns in 67. I'm going to guess the body is too far back on the frame. Im not sure the holes in the frame were ever centered with the body bushings. Either way I'd jack the body back up and slide it forward on the frame. Just my two cents worth.

Brandon

1965 Impala SS 396 4spd
1966 Impala SS convert 4spd
1973 Corvette 4spd
1973 Firebird Formula 4spd
1959 Corvette FI 4spd will restore it someday!!!


 
65acadian 
Member
Posts: 227
65acadian
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Reg: 08-15-04
03-29-20 10:03 PM - Post#2789775    
    In response to bigred65

That was the thought I had too. If the column was never unbolted in the car during this swap, it almost has to be that.



 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5611

Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
03-29-20 11:38 PM - Post#2789776    
    In response to mjc1

  • mjc1 Said:
It's obvious the problem isn't the joint.

Either the body or box is wrong. I'll eat my words if the frame holes are different. Can't be.





70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


Edited by 427SS65 on 03-30-20 04:55 PM. Reason for edit: Removed offensive response. Keep it friendly please!

 


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