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Username Post: Synthetic to Dino Oil ?        (Topic#359562)
62BillT 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5840
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
01-23-20 10:12 AM - Post#2784970    

The car I recently bought has Synthetic Oil in it. I find the Dip Stick hard to read and was told Synthetic is like that, but not just that, I would rather just run 5W-30 Dino Oil (non-Synthetic) like I've been using all my life.

The Synthetic is also known to be thinner, as I am told, and I need to add more than what I believe I should be.

My question is, any problem switching over? I've heard some say yes, but mostly no.

Would like more opinions on it from you all here.

Thanks

Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 


Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2006

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
01-23-20 11:26 AM - Post#2784980    
    In response to 62BillT

Some mis info here, it is not thinner, but does flow better in colder weather start ups, and no additional oil is required and you can switch back to Dino oil.



 
62BillT 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5840
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
01-23-20 12:50 PM - Post#2784985    
    In response to Shepherd

Thanks.

The "thinner" part is more of an assumption on my part as I've been told that high mileage engines should switch to "High Mileage Synthetic".

As you can tell the Synthetic business is all brand new to me. I just bought my first quart ever recently, only to add the same brand, weight and type to what is already in there.

Glad to see your green light on switching to Dino.

Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
TAT_2 
Member #26 "19th Year" Silver Supporting Member, and Official CT Grim Reaper
Posts: 36371
TAT_2
Age: 66
Loc: "UNDER THE BOARDWALK"
Reg: 10-29-00
01-23-20 06:01 PM - Post#2785004    
    In response to 62BillT

HIGH MILEAGE HAS A ADDITIVE TO SWELL SEALS IN BOTH SYN & DINO OIL.

High-mileage oils have ingredients to take care of older engines, like conditioners, seal swells, antioxidants, detergents and wear or friction additives. Typically they use a viscosity modifier that is durable and won't lose viscosity very easily. These oils need to stay thicker longer to protect engine parts.

THE WHEEL SEALS I USE IN WORK COMES WITH A GREASE TO SWELL THE RUBBER ON THE AXLE & IN THE HUB.

09 PONTIAC- VIBE
08 PONTIAC- G6
93 VETTE - 40TH ANIV RUBY RED LT1/6SPD/RAG TOP
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junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3266

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
01-23-20 09:00 PM - Post#2785027    
    In response to 62BillT

I would continue to use the synthetic oil, for its longevity (synthetics go longer between oil changes), and if you find reading the dipstick difficult, then lay it across a piece of paper like a McDonalds napkin, and you will see the oil mark. I run everything with Synthetic in the engines, except for my new engine in my '62, which is running break in oil for the first 1000 miles. Then it will also be switched over to synthetic oil...

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Rick_L 
Member #409
Posts: 27696
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
01-23-20 09:16 PM - Post#2785028    
    In response to 62BillT

The 5W30 rating determines the "thickness" of the oil, it is the same whether it's dino or synthetic.

At one time synthetic oil was accused of causing leaks, maybe true then but not now. And certainly not on a late model engine because the gaskets and sealers will work with synthetic.

If you want to use dino oil because it's cheaper, the price has narrowed a bunch, and if you buy synthetic when it's on sale, it's the same or cheaper. Rarely do they put dino oil on sale any more.

Be open minded, synthetic is better stuff.



 
62BillT 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5840
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
01-24-20 04:01 PM - Post#2785093    
    In response to Rick_L

Appreciate the additional replies.

Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4440

Reg: 12-29-02
01-24-20 04:19 PM - Post#2785097    
    In response to 62BillT

5W30 is 5W30 synthetic or not. Whoever is telling you that synthetic is thinner or needs more in the engine is wrong. You can use it just like conventional oil. The advantages are that it protects the engine better and can be run longer between changes.

If this car is driven a lot and needs multiple oil changes a year then I would stick with synthetic. You can extend the oil change interval and do fewer changes while protecting the engine better at the same time.

If this car is driven low miles every year and you do a yearly oil change no matter what the mileage is then conventional makes more sense.

Of course, if GM recommends synthetic in the engine then use synthetic.



 
TAT_2 
Member #26 "19th Year" Silver Supporting Member, and Official CT Grim Reaper
Posts: 36371
TAT_2
Age: 66
Loc: "UNDER THE BOARDWALK"
Reg: 10-29-00
01-24-20 04:32 PM - Post#2785098    
    In response to 62BillT

ILL ASK THE 64 $ ?
MOTOR INFO ?

09 PONTIAC- VIBE
08 PONTIAC- G6
93 VETTE - 40TH ANIV RUBY RED LT1/6SPD/RAG TOP
NEXT ?


*****
PREVIOUS VETTE'S 58,68,70,76,78,85,90
*****


Blessed are the cross-eyed, for they will see God twice


 
Stinky 
Senior Member
Posts: 1679

Loc: Whitewater, CO
Reg: 05-25-01
01-24-20 06:12 PM - Post#2785100    
    In response to TAT_2

IMHO...and I know next to nut'N...I do not like seal swellers, and if the inside of your motor is clean (from having a history of regular changes w/quality oil), then all that junk that is in high mileage oil, is just that, un-needed junk. I bet if you check your manual, it says don't use additives.

AND, man did I just throw out a discussion starter.

And, I'd run 10W-30 in dino oil (there is, or was, a thought out there that a wide spread between the cold weight (in this case, 10W) and the op-temp weight (in this case 30), is bad. Alls I know, is that I have several HIGH-MILEAGE motors that have used only 10-30 and it when a motor has over 250K on it, and still runs good.....

Synthetic is better, but in my dumb opinion, if a motor can last 250K and still run like a top, w/dino oil (w/5K changes), then that is all that you need.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4440

Reg: 12-29-02
01-24-20 08:04 PM - Post#2785113    
    In response to Stinky

That's an interesting "thought" on weight. Every oil is thicker when cold than when hot. It the idea was to have a smaller weight or viscosity change between hot and cold then you'd actually want an oil with a bigger spread between the numbers, not a smaller spread.

5W30 has a smaller cold vs hot viscosity (or weight) change than 10W30 does.

When cold, you want the oil closer to the hot viscosity so it easily flows so it gets to all the critical parts quicker which gives the advantage to 5W30 over 10W30. 0W30 would be even better for cold starts when the majority of engine damage occurs.

Overall, it makes no sense to run oil that is thicker when cold vs an oil that is thinner when cold. I don't think you will find very many sources that support a thicker oil as providing better cold start protection.




 
japete92 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1320
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
01-25-20 09:25 AM - Post#2785135    
    In response to 62BillT

  • 62BillT Said:
The car I recently bought has Synthetic Oil in it. I find the Dip Stick hard to read and was told Synthetic is like that, but not just that, I would rather just run 5W-30 Dino Oil (non-Synthetic) like I've been using all my life.

The Synthetic is also known to be thinner, as I am told, and I need to add more than what I believe I should be.

My question is, any problem switching over? I've heard some say yes, but mostly no.

Would like more opinions on it from you all here.

Thanks




I use 'dino' oil (10w40) in my '383' sbc and change it (and the filter) once a year (about 1500 miles). It may be my old eyes but it is hard for me to read the dip stick; the oil is always 'clean'. Junky's 'trick' helps me. I also only check it 'cold'. For my situation, it would not make any difference which type of oil I used.

Is synthetic 'thinner'? As previously stated, 10w40 is 10w40 regardless.

Going back in memory to days before multi-viscosity oils, one used 'lower' weight oil in the winter and 'higher' in the summer. Outside temperature when starting a cold engine dictated what weight to use.

My understanding (right or wrong) is that at a given outside temp (say 20 F) both 10w40 and 5w40 oil have equivalent flow characteristics when starting a cold engine. The 5w40 oil will retain adequate flow at lower temps than the 10w40. I would have to look up what the specific temp ranges each oil is recommended for; I'm too lazy.

Here's so info you may find helpful:

http://knowhow.napaonline.com/winter-oil-viscosity...

Because you asked for opinions, here are a couple of mine:

Old 'rules of thumb' are hard for me to break. I was taught not to change the type of oil an engine was 'used' to, w/o a very good reason. So I do not. Is synthetic 'better' than 'dino'? Likely so. Everything 'new' (about cars) has advantages over 'old' stuff. I'll keep doing things 'my way' because I like Frank Sinatra

Switch, or not. I don't think it's anything to be concerned about.

Oil 'additives' ? May be beneficial to keep an old engine running until scrapped, or rebuilt. They are superfluous on a good running engine, regardless of oil 'type'.

Pete








Edited by japete92 on 01-25-20 09:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
01-26-20 07:32 AM - Post#2785195    
    In response to japete92

I have used nothing but synthetic oil in all my vehicles since 1975. For many years people did nothing but bad mouth synthetic oil, yet today most new vehicles require it simply because mineral oil is becoming old technology, going the way of the bias ply tire.

A lot of old mechanics tales on synthetic oil and all are myth propagated by naysayers and technology haters.

What is synthetic motor oil? Synthetic lubricants are chemically engineered to form pure lubricants. They contain no contaminants or molecules that don’t serve a designed purpose. Their versatility and pure, uniform molecular structures impart properties that provide better friction-reduction, optimum fuel efficiency, maximum film strength and extreme-temperature performance conventional lubricants just can’t touch.

Conventional lubricants, on the other hand, are refined from crude oil. Contaminating elements such as sulfur, nitrogen, oxygen and metal components such as nickel or vanadium are inherent to crude oil and cannot be completely removed through the refining process. The oil refining process separates the various types of molecules in the oil by weight, leaving molecules similar in weight but dissimilar in structure, reducing performance.


Using aftermarket oil additives with synthetic motor oils is not only unnecessary, it could disrupt the oil formulation and reduce performance or worse, lead to engine damage.

Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
corvesy 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 715
corvesy
Reg: 08-07-08
01-26-20 08:06 AM - Post#2785197    
    In response to elcamino

I have read that synthetic oil smokes less than petroleum based oil. A wife's tell or not?



 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2006

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
01-26-20 10:13 AM - Post#2785207    
    In response to corvesy

No factual truth here.



 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
01-27-20 09:58 AM - Post#2785280    
    In response to corvesy

If you are referring to 2-stroke oil (mixed with gas) than it can.

Not all synthetics are created equal, and it may be that not all synthetics are actually synthetic at all. Fully synthetic oil is a marketing term that in no way defines the quantity of synthetic content.

Reference
Lubes'N'Greases April & May 2019 columns by Thomas F. Glenn Petroleum Trends International & Petroleum Quality Institute of America; "How Do You Know Its Synthetic?".

Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
01-30-20 05:32 AM - Post#2785441    
    In response to 65_Impala

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Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4440

Reg: 12-29-02
01-30-20 08:04 AM - Post#2785452    
    In response to elcamino

Didn't hear him say anything about oil ratio???

Amsoil is the manufacturer those guys love to use though. The Saber oil is one of the oils they like mixing lean.



 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
02-07-20 09:45 AM - Post#2786055    
    In response to 65_Impala

They run Dominator Racing oil. Its tuned oil injection...premixing oil with gas is old technology rarely used today. The ratio they will never reveal so competitors don't gain an advantage.


The oil the race teams use it the very same oil you can buy, its not a special one-off oil just for a race team. Made in the USA in Superior, Wisconsin since 1972.

Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4440

Reg: 12-29-02
03-02-20 01:44 PM - Post#2787799    
    In response to elcamino

Mike, I was referring to the race teams of the cars I mentioned in the post that was deleted using Saber. None of those teams run injection, they all pre-mix.



 
bigalturk1 
Newbie
Posts: 15

Reg: 09-20-13
03-02-20 03:41 PM - Post#2787806    
    In response to 62BillT

I used Regular oil in my wife's Hyundai Accent since new, and am doing the same thing with her new KIA Soul. The reason I use regular motor oil is because I change it @ 2,500... Which is only twice a year.
I know that Synthetic is good for more miles but I don't want that oil sitting in the engine absorbing condensation for a whole year.

FYI: I am a Retired GM, AC-Delco & ASE certified trained mechanic.



 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
03-03-20 10:27 AM - Post#2787871    
    In response to bigalturk1

value="transparent">

Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
Rathman 
Poster
Posts: 51
Rathman
Loc: New Mexico
Reg: 08-21-16
03-06-20 02:40 PM - Post#2788078    
    In response to 62BillT

I've heard that all synthetics are made from crude oil, they have been refined more than regular oil, unless you're breaking something in, I would say it's always okay to use synthetics, especially in a high mileage or a motor that hadn't had it's oil changed on a regular basis, imo

93 Cheyenne k/1500 Ext.cab 4x4 350 motor


 
elcamino 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5440
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
03-08-20 09:13 AM - Post#2788192    
    In response to Rathman

If you ever flown in a jet aircraft, it depended on synthetic oil. If not for synthetic oil, jet engines could not survive the heat.

Simple answer; Synthetic lubricants are chemically engineered to form pure lubricants, Conventional lubricants, on the other hand, are refined from crude oil.



Synthetic oil user since 1976 here, never anything else. /i]

Mike
2017 GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate 6.2L / 8-sp Z95
2017 John Deere X738 Snow Blower
2018 Polaris RZR S 900 EPS
2016 Polaris RZR 900 EPS


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3717

Reg: 04-15-05
03-08-20 01:53 PM - Post#2788225    
    In response to 62BillT

And, components that require synthetic snake oils have metallurgy that requires those synthetics.

Our older engines have parts designed to use a liquid version of silly putty to lube them, and are much better suited to 'dino' oils, and do not operate at 'out of this world hot' operating temperatures.



 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7324
1965C-10
Age: 42
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
03-20-20 10:36 PM - Post#2789094    
    In response to 62BillT

Since buying the C5 Corvette in 2003 I have only run Mobil one full synthetic.

Other vehicles conventional, like ex's Corolla bought new, and my 1965 C10.

Last summer got a free PT Cruiser that needed water pump, fixed it and it's my daily driver.

PT was gf's old car and went who knows how long it went without oil changes, when looking at Walmart, Mobil one full high mileage (all they had, would have just bought regular Mobil one synthetic) synthetic jug was about 10 more bucks than Walmart brand non synthetic oil, so I switched PT Cruiser to synthetic, bought a Mobil one oil filter also.

Engine has a tad over 167000 miles, been about 6 months, no burning oil, no oil leaks, not really any improvement on mpg that I can tell.

Oil level is easy to check.

I'm hoping it makes the car last longer, and maybe cleans out any crud from lack of oil changes from previous owner.

Probably ok to switch your vehicle back to conventional oil.



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3808

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
03-21-20 04:24 AM - Post#2789100    
    In response to 1965C-10

I have a car with a double overhead cam V6 that I switched to synthetic at 130K miles. At 214K now. I had some minor seepage around the valve covers but really nothing to write home about. I changed the gaskets and covers to stop the leak. The engine was near spotless under the covers. That car sees 7,500 rpm multiple times a day. I added cold air intakes, headers, high flow cats, exhaust and tuned the car. Went from 268 hp and 224 tq at the wheels to 326 hp and 282 tq at the wheels. Despite that with a quality extended drain filter the oil is spotless and still clean at 7,500 mile increments. Car burns approximately 1 qt every 7,500 miles.

My G-van and Express van both had small blocks on synthetic. Both of those engines saw 5,500+ rpm when I daily drove them. Both looked like new inside when I swapped cams/heads on them. Oil consumption was about 1qt every 3,000 miles for both.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 03-21-20 04:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


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