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Username Post: '59 235 With Captain's Bars?        (Topic#358476)
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-16-19 10:53 AM - Post#2778037    

A buddy of mine pulled the 6-banger out of a '59 2-door hardtop that he made a resto-rod out of. I went and looked at the engine this morning. It had lots of built-up dirt and grease, and I haven't found the block casting number yet, but it does have captain's bars behind the starter. Did GM put captain's bars on 235's?

The head is an 848 head, casting date of the head is D 14 1.

I will go back in a few days and find the block casting number, but until then, did 235's ever get captain's bars?

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 


56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5688
56sedandelivery
Age: 68
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
10-16-19 11:52 AM - Post#2778040    
    In response to rrausch

I thought ONLY 261's had "Captain's Bars". But what do I know? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
Gene_Schneider 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12260

Loc: Wisconsin..USA
Reg: 09-27-02
10-16-19 01:47 PM - Post#2778053    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Some 235s had them also.

ChevGene 1934 Master sedan 1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan 1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide 1957 Nomad 283 PG 1963 Corvair Convertible


 
2blu52 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 19030
2blu52
Age: 86
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
10-16-19 02:33 PM - Post#2778057    
    In response to rrausch

lots of 235 heads sitting on top of 261 blocks.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIOUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-16-19 06:29 PM - Post#2778064    
    In response to 2blu52

I'll find the casting number in the next few days. Thanks.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1511

Age: 70
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
10-16-19 06:52 PM - Post#2778065    
    In response to rrausch

This might help you, after you find your numbers.
http://www.1954advance-design.com/Stovebolt-engine...

Brian

The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-17-19 04:45 AM - Post#2778079    
    In response to 55 Shaker

Thanks.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8735

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
10-17-19 09:21 AM - Post#2778114    
    In response to rrausch

I will not say that 235s did not have captain's bars ------------------- BUT, I've only known of captain's bars being on 261s. Thus, if you discover that in fact it is a 261 -------------------- AND IS IN GOOD, REBUILDABLE CONDITION, you have discovered a jewel!
And if it does have a 235 head with steam holes added ------------- so much the better!



 
Rustchips 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1181
Rustchips
Loc: DFW Texas
Reg: 02-24-05
10-17-19 09:27 AM - Post#2778116    
    In response to rrausch

I had a 235 that had captains bars. I was disappointed, I thought I had a 261.
Cleon

1928 Chevy Coupe
1942 Chevy Special Deluxe Coupe
1955 Chevy Bel Air HTP
1970 El Camino
1990 F##d Mustang Convertible

Life is like a roll of toilet paper the nearer the end the faster it goes.


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-17-19 11:47 AM - Post#2778125    
    In response to Rustchips

3769925! Born on G 23 2. Ran when parked and looks good. It's been stored out of the weather.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Airlifter 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 625
Airlifter
Age: 74
Loc: Tazewell county, Virginia
Reg: 06-07-15
10-17-19 01:39 PM - Post#2778130    
    In response to rrausch

Those numbers indicate a 261 built on July 23, 1962. Great find. Looks like the head was built on April 14,1961. I have read that a 235 head on the 261 gives little boost in compression.

1951 styline deluxe sport coupe w/'60 261 engine & 54 powerglide


 
2blu52 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 19030
2blu52
Age: 86
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
10-17-19 01:57 PM - Post#2778131    
    In response to Airlifter

  • Airlifter Said:
Those numbers indicate a 261 built on July 23, 1962. Great find. Looks like the head was built on April 14,1961. I have read that a 235 head on the 261 gives little boost in compression.


Yep it does that!!


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIOUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-17-19 02:23 PM - Post#2778134    
    In response to 2blu52

Pictures. The engine has been sitting for 30 years, and I don't know if it is rebuildable.






1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Airlifter 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 625
Airlifter
Age: 74
Loc: Tazewell county, Virginia
Reg: 06-07-15
10-17-19 03:38 PM - Post#2778143    
    In response to rrausch

The 261 that I found presumably was sitting in the truck for 30 years. I ran a compression test, took a look at the bearings,replaced rear main seal and put in the car. So far so good. About 600 miles so far. I would pull the oil pan and head and take a look.

1951 styline deluxe sport coupe w/'60 261 engine & 54 powerglide


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
10-17-19 07:30 PM - Post#2778160    
    In response to Airlifter

Thanks Airlifter. That's my plan.


1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-14-19 03:38 PM - Post#2780166    
    In response to rrausch

OK, I'm trying to get the bellhousing off so I can pull the clutch and flywheel. The engine is stuck so I can't turn it over to get the pressure plate off. So I've pulled the two upper bellhousing bolts that are accessable from above and outside the bellhousing. I've loosened the two bellhousing bolts that are accessable from reaching under the bellhousing with a 5/8 wrench--I've loosened them a good 1/2 inch on each side.

I cannot break the bellhousing loose. Are there any other bolts holding the bellhousing on besides the 4 I've mentioned?

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-14-19 03:39 PM - Post#2780167    
    In response to rrausch

I did pull the head. There is no ridge at the tops of the cylinders, and there ARE steamholes in the block. But no steam holes have been drilled in the head.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
2blu52 
"18th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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2blu52
Age: 86
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
11-14-19 07:01 PM - Post#2780186    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
I did pull the head. There is no ridge at the tops of the cylinders, and there ARE steamholes in the block. But no steam holes have been drilled in the head.


I have a friend who built a 261 for racing. He did not know then and until I asked him about steam holes he knew nothing. The engine was raced for several years, sold to a rancher who used it to power a home made hay rake for 10 years. The engine is now back with the original owner. Yes it did have a 235 head.


"PEACE IS THAT GLORIOUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-14-19 07:34 PM - Post#2780190    
    In response to 2blu52

Blu, I think the steam-holes are only needed in severe-duty circumstances. An old guy who ran a NAPA store where I live was helping me one day and asked me what I was working on. I told him a Chevy 261. He told me about working on a combine crew in the 1960's, hauling combines all around the midwest on the back of 2-ton Chevy trucks all summer. They ran those trucks hot, hard and heavy. If they needed to rebuild the engine they'd do it in one night--he'd take the bottom end and replace the bearings while another guy would do the rings from the top of the engine. They finish up, put the head back on and get it going before dawn.

Can anyone answer the question about bellhousing bolts? Are there only 4, or did I miss one? The bellhousing sticks like there are more bolts, but I don't see any. To complicate things there is a lot of debris up inside the bellhousing.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
eplantage 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2232

Loc: Southern MN
Reg: 03-15-04
11-15-19 04:25 AM - Post#2780204    
    In response to rrausch

Robert, I believe there are 6 bolts total. 4 behind the flywheel and 2 at the top of the bellhousing on the outside. You may have to sacrifice the pressure plate to get at the flywheel bolts, if you can get to all those bolts or just use a torch and cut the pressure plate off.

Age: 65 at the moment
1950 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery
1953 BelAir Convertible Project
2002 Heritage Springer FLSTSI
1930 Model A Standard Coupe


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-15-19 08:08 AM - Post#2780212    
    In response to eplantage

That's what it acts like, but I can't see anymore bolt heads looking up between the flywheel and the engine.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
eplantage 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2232

Loc: Southern MN
Reg: 03-15-04
11-15-19 09:57 AM - Post#2780217    
    In response to rrausch

The bolts that fasten the bellhousing to the block are to long to remove the bellhousing without taking the flywheel/clutch off first.

Age: 65 at the moment
1950 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery
1953 BelAir Convertible Project
2002 Heritage Springer FLSTSI
1930 Model A Standard Coupe


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-15-19 11:50 AM - Post#2780227    
    In response to eplantage

The two on the bottom I've backed out 1/2 inch. My plan was to get them the rest of the way out after I loosened the bellhousing. I have another bellhousing in my barn--I just remembered it. I'll go check how many mounting holes it has.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-15-19 01:30 PM - Post#2780234    
    In response to rrausch

Yes, there are 6 bolts holding the bellhousing on. 4 from inside the BH and the upper 2 on the outside. Now I've got to cut up the pressure plate and try to get it out so I can removed the clutch and flywheel. I had the exact same situation on the 261 I'm running in my 210, but back then I cut the bellhousing off with a Sawzall. It took hours--that is some tough cast iron. I'd rather not destroy the bellhousing if I can save it.


1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-15-19 03:12 PM - Post#2780236    
    In response to rrausch

My buddy took pity on me and cut the pressure plate fingers and the clutch middle section out with a torch. Tomorrow I'll go back over and use an impact wrench to remove the flywheel bolts and try to drop the flywheel with pressure plate attached. Looks like there is room.




1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14116
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
11-16-19 11:04 AM - Post#2780297    
    In response to rrausch

Ok, I pulled the bellhousing without cutting it up, thanks to my buddy. Pulled the oil pan and pulled a main bearing cap. Everything looks good so far, so I bought the engine.

This is why I was tearing everything apart to check. This engine last ran in 1985, when the owner of the '59 2-door Bel Air ran it in that car. But take a look at the way he set up the oil filter lines:



He used reducers to run the 235 bypass oil filter on the 261. Evidently the guy was smart enough to know about the 261's, in 1985, but it looks like he didn't know about the full-flow oil system. The engine appears to be rebuildable. There is no ridge at the tops of the cylinders, but the engine is stuck. Comments? Questions?

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 


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