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Username Post: High amp electric trigger        (Topic#358281)
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-01-19 10:30 AM - Post#2776847    

A Volvo two speed temp relay is being added along with a Mark VIII 18" fan. The common wiring diagram is attached. If a regular relay (30/40 amp)is used, then amps are limited. I plan to use a 100 amp relay. Instead of a relay, how about a direct wire with a fuse so power is not interrupted. Instead, use a ground activation on the temp probe. Would a ground activation work better? How would a relay be wired? Second activation, A/C use. A/C will use a trinary switch for fan control. I can wire it to low speed. Another option is to add an auxiliary fan just for A/C use.



Attachment: volvo_updated_diagram.jpg (99.67 KB) 18 View(s)

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 


acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11303
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
10-01-19 01:34 PM - Post#2776863    
    In response to gchemist

The relay in your drawing isn't a high current relay. It has a 6 amp diode in series with the load, so it can't carry more than 6 amps. If it's wired like the description, it does no good anyway. If you connect 30 to 85, the relay is redundant.
The 2 speed fan control carries all the current. The dual temp switch triggers the fan controller. You can tie the trinary A/C switch to the 6 amp diode with the other side of the trinary connected to ground and eleminate the relay. The trinary will trigger the low fan when the A/C pressure requires more air. You may need to trigger the high speed in hot climates.



Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-01-19 05:11 PM - Post#2776878    
    In response to acardon

The relay in the bottom right is just to trigger the fan control, not to power the fan. It appears to be there to allow the AC to over-ride the temperature switch only when the key is on.

Using a 100A relay would be pointless in that location.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-02-19 04:21 AM - Post#2776900    
    In response to 65_Impala

Ops, uploaded the wrong wiring diagram. Basically no relay between relay and battery. Only a fuse. If wired this way, how can a ground activation be wired in? The trinary switch works on a grounding activation right? Slow speed should be enough for A/C cooling at idle and very slow speeds. With a ground activation, a 100 amp relay would not be necessary across the main power line. Fan and relay extensions will be same gauge wiring.



Attachment: Volvo_wiring.jpg (61.04 KB) 10 View(s)

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11303
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
10-02-19 06:54 AM - Post#2776911    
    In response to gchemist

Ground one terminal of the trinary switch, connect the other to the diode. When the trinary closes, the low fan comes on.
https://www.trifive.com/forums/picture.php?albumid...

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-02-19 07:41 AM - Post#2776916    
    In response to gchemist

Maybe you are confused about that Volvo controller. It does all the power switching.

The fan will operate at low speed when you ground the wire going to terminal 1 of the temperature switch. It will operate in high if you ground the wire going to terminal 2. These are both signal wires, so there is no high current in these wires or high current switching required.

The easiest solution is to connect the trinary switch so it grounds terminal 1 and that will turn the fan on in low when the pressure reaches the turn-on point. You don't need the diode for this.

How the trinary switch works depends on the switch. I have seen 4 wire switches and with that type you have to ground one wire and connect the other to that terminal 1 wire.

There are other ways to run the fan too. One is to run the fan in low any time AC is on and switch to high if the trinary switch calls for it. This is how GM was doing it with the dual fan cars.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-04-19 02:57 PM - Post#2777092    
    In response to 65_Impala

What size of diode should I use? Is soldering the best way to connect it to wiring? If I don't use a relay on the power side, how do I wire so it's not active until ignition is on (on ground side)? Or should I install a relay on the power with ignition circuit on?

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-05-19 06:30 PM - Post#2777164    
    In response to gchemist

You don't need a diode. Both the temp and trinary switch are contacts that ground the wire so they can be connected in parallel just fine.

There is a 3-wire temperature switch in the diagrams you posted. You can use a Bosch style relay to connect the ground terminal of the temperature switch to ground with the key - ignition power. That way, the relay doesn't have to switch the fan power, only signal power. Connect the ground wire from the trinary switch to the temperature switch wire and then connect both to the relay. That way, neither the trinary switch or temperature switch can call for the fan with the ignition switched off.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-08-19 03:40 AM - Post#2777338    
    In response to 65_Impala

65_Impala
Great! That's was I want, a ground trigger. Not being a standard power switch relay, do I follow the relay diagram in the pic (ground side)?


'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-08-19 03:51 AM - Post#2777339    
    In response to gchemist

Neitehr diagram you posted shows this. Try this link, it shows the relay grounding the sensor.

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/taurus-fan-volvo...


Hook the trinary switch wires between the low speed temperature switch wire and the temperature switch ground wire.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-08-19 12:39 PM - Post#2777390    
    In response to acardon

So the relay wiring is wrong? I see the link above has a post that contradicts the relay diagram.

Should the relay be wired this way?
85 ground
86 ignition
30 ground
87 to temp switch ground
87a nothing
If so, the trinary switch grounds go through 85? Or 86 from the diagram?
So confused.


'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-09-19 04:08 AM - Post#2777445    
    In response to gchemist

Follow the text.

The trinary switch goes to 87, same as the temp switch.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-09-19 07:42 AM - Post#2777459    
    In response to 65_Impala

Cool. Hope to get it installed tomorrow. The trinary switch has two blue ground wires if I remember correctly. So one will go to 87 and other end to temp sensor ground. The fuse box should have an ignition option or fuse I can tape into. The Volvo relay is simple to wire. A 40 amp fuse between battery and Volvo relay will be placed in a visible location. I'm wondering if I should use a reset able fuse instead of break away one.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-09-19 08:05 AM - Post#2777463    
    In response to gchemist

  • gchemist Said:
The trinary switch has two blue ground wires if I remember correctly. So one will go to 87 and other end to temp sensor ground.




No, both connect to sensor wires.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-09-19 08:50 AM - Post#2777468    
    In response to 65_Impala



'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-09-19 09:49 AM - Post#2777474    
    In response to gchemist

I got that wrong. The one wire will go to 87, which is the ground of the sensor. The other goes to one of the sensor wires, depending on if you want low or high fan speed.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-09-19 10:09 AM - Post#2777476    
    In response to 65_Impala

OH! I want low speed only for trinary switch operation. The 18" fan will be turning 1100 RPMs which should be enough. Once the truck is moving, the switch and engine cooling should be minimal.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-09-19 03:31 PM - Post#2777494    
    In response to gchemist

Then hook the other wire to the low speed wire on the temperature switch.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-25-19 03:44 AM - Post#2778720    
    In response to 65_Impala

The fan upgrade is started. The fan edge is so sharp it cut my thumb really good while cleaning it. The fan is turned so the direct power wire is as close to the battery as possible. Which is better? A fuse or resettable circuit breaker? Either is available in 40 amps. May go higher if startup spike blows a fuse. A/C cooling will use the low side. If it proves too much on fuses/breakers, enough room is available to install a condenser fan.

Out of curiosity, I had an LS cooling fan laying around. I installed it with a temporary shroud. Amazingly the ECM detects the change. It shifts into OD sooner and locks the converter sooner when it’s warmed up. So a fan upgrade will be even better.



Attachment: fan1.JPG (98.99 KB) 10 View(s)

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


Edited by gchemist on 10-30-19 03:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-25-19 08:49 AM - Post#2778735    
    In response to gchemist

What ECM? It can't control the fans instead of using the temperature switch?

I don't recall any temperature factor in the shift tables of GM electronically controlled transmissions. Torque converter not locking up cold - yes.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
10-26-19 04:56 AM - Post#2778777    
    In response to 65_Impala

Oh, this fan is not going into a Chevy. It's going into a 2000 1500 5.2 Ram. The BMW switch a two temp probe for high and low speeds. A trinary switch will control low speed for A/C cooling. Basically, I'm coping the setup in my '83 into the Ram. Instead of using LS1 fans, this one will get a Mark VIII fan.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4333

Reg: 12-29-02
10-27-19 08:09 AM - Post#2778866    
    In response to gchemist

LOL, I have no idea what Dodge does in the PCM. It might be able to control the fans if you could program it but that's likely no worth it. I thought you might be working on a swap or something and if you're programming the PCM to run standalone then setup the fan control too.



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24980
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
11-12-19 08:01 AM - Post#2780034    
    In response to 65_Impala

A 2000 does not have ECM fan functions. It will reply only on temp sensor and trinary switch functions. My '83 has worked great for years. I expect the same for this setup.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 


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