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Username Post: Lifter clacking why        (Topic#358001)
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-09-19 02:12 PM - Post#2775169    

Why would a lifter start to clack if you pull the plug wire on that cyliner, Could it be lifters need adjusted? Stops clacking when you put the plug wire back on. I have never came across this before.

56 210 2dr


Edited by Jims56chevy on 09-09-19 04:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1852

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
09-09-19 05:33 PM - Post#2775189    
    In response to Jims56chevy

What engine, how old, all stock components, why are you doing this, lotta info missing.



 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-09-19 07:38 PM - Post#2775197    
    In response to Shepherd

350 L31 vortec new crate motor with 5 thousand miles on it installed a LT4 camshaft 100 miles ago started getting a miss and running rough sometimes at idle,was just trying to run down the cause. I haven't came across this before.

56 210 2dr


Edited by Jims56chevy on 09-09-19 07:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raceman6135 
Senior Member
Posts: 928
raceman6135
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Reg: 11-04-02
09-10-19 07:07 AM - Post#2775229    
    In response to Jims56chevy

My guess is one of the camshaft lobes on that cylinder is flat.

It could also be a damaged rocker arm, or a rocker arm stud that is pulling out of the head, or a bent pushrod, or a valve stem that has mushroomed.

When the plug wire is connected, the expansion of the ignited gases helps dampen the excessive clearances caused by the worn/damaged part(s).

Since the camshaft is fairly new, I'm betting a lobe has been wiped. Is it a flat tappet camshaft, either hydraulic or solid?

My first step would be to pull that valve cover and inspect for top end damage. If nothing is obvious, disable the ignition so the vehicle does not start and then rotate the engine (either with a helper, or using a remote starter switch, or even by using a socket and wrench on the balancer bolt) to see if the valves on the affected cylinder appear to move the same amount as that of the other cylinders.

I don't think a compression test or a leak-down test will tell you anything because it does not sound like you have a cylinder sealing problem, and even with a flat camshaft lobe, you might still get enough air moving through the cylinder that the PSI/leakage rating is within acceptable limits.

Just my two cents.



 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17391
grumpyvette
Age: 71
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
09-10-19 08:07 AM - Post#2775234    
    In response to raceman6135

all good and logical advice above,

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

link and sub link info may be useful

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 08:08 AM - Post#2775235    
    In response to raceman6135

It's a roller. I will check everything out but will be surprised if it's flat lobe, it runs to well. It's just been having a rough idle at times. And If it were a flat lobe it would clattering all the time. I'm going to be checking it all out today and get back on what I find.

56 210 2dr


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-10-19 08:45 AM - Post#2775243    
    In response to Jims56chevy

At cam change, were valves adjusted per E-O, I-C method? If not, who knows where the settings actually are.



 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 09:55 AM - Post#2775252    
    In response to Jims56chevy

One more question can you adjust stock chevy roller lifters with the engine running like a hyd flat tappet lifter? Or will it damage the roller?

56 210 2dr


 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 09:59 AM - Post#2775253    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
At cam change, were valves adjusted per E-O, I-C method? If not, who knows where the settings actually are.


I use this method.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=adjus ting+hdy...

56 210 2dr


 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 05:09 PM - Post#2775284    
    In response to raceman6135

Well pulled both v/c, I can't see or find anything out of the norm. used my remote starter switch to watch rocker arms all looks good when cranking it over. I will ask again, my original ? Anyone come across this, With engine running and plug wire removed the lifter clacks install plug wire clack goes away.

Also can you adjust hyd roller lifters with the engine running like on a flat tappet lifter? Or can it cause damage to the needle bearings?
thanks

56 210 2dr


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-10-19 08:17 PM - Post#2775301    
    In response to Jims56chevy

"I use this method"

OH, sorry, wrong way to do it, just as is trying to adjust a solid lifter cam with the engine running.

The first method the fellow said, IS the "E-O, I-C" method, but, he botched it in the last part, in that he says to stop the intake lifter half way back down its bore to set the exhaust valve, DEAD WRONG.

It should go as thus:

Rotate engine in normal rotation direction, stop when the exhaust lifter just raises off its seat, SET INTAKE VALVE.

Then, rotate engine, opening and closing both exhaust and intake valves. Just when the intake lifter seats, SET THE EXHAUST VALVE.

Done, go on to the next valve set.

The "E-O,I-C" method is the ONLY method that gets EVERY cam lobe base circle dead center on the lifter, for proper adjustment.

The method in the video sets a lot of lifters up on clearance and quieting ramps on the cam lobes, NOT centered on each base circle. NOT the right way to do it.

Now, if thre is dispute, please, lets do the test all over again (I've done this to pove it to a lot of people that just didn't get it", bare block with cam bearings in it, ANY cam, two lifters. Insert cam, place lifters in the two bores for the cylinder, and rotate the cam until the exhaust lifter just starts to open, look at the intake lobe, where is it, then, rotate cam, open and close both lifters, and just where the intake lifter stops back down, look at the exhaust lobe.

Works on any engine, and cam, no problems.

Apologize for being so firm in this, but I have fixed so many botched valve adjustments done by every Rube Goldberg method in the universe.



 
aghaga 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2222
aghaga
Age: 65
Loc: Altavista, Va.
Reg: 07-05-08
09-10-19 08:40 PM - Post#2775304    
    In response to Jims56chevy

I wonder if you are actually hearing the spark jumping to a ground somewhere when you pull the plug wire?



 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 09:18 PM - Post#2775306    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
"I use this method"

OH, sorry, wrong way to do it, just as is trying to adjust a solid lifter cam with the engine running.

The first method the fellow said, IS the "E-O, I-C" method, but, he botched it in the last part, in that he says to stop the intake lifter half way back down its bore to set the exhaust valve, DEAD WRONG.

It should go as thus:

Rotate engine in normal rotation direction, stop when the exhaust lifter just raises off its seat, SET INTAKE VALVE.

Then, rotate engine, opening and closing both exhaust and intake valves. Just when the intake lifter seats, SET THE EXHAUST VALVE.

Done, go on to the next valve set.

The "E-O,I-C" method is the ONLY method that gets EVERY cam lobe base circle dead center on the lifter, for proper adjustment.

The method in the video sets a lot of lifters up on clearance and quieting ramps on the cam lobes, NOT centered on each base circle. NOT the right way to do it.

Now, if thre is dispute, please, lets do the test all over again (I've done this to pove it to a lot of people that just didn't get it", bare block with cam bearings in it, ANY cam, two lifters. Insert cam, place lifters in the two bores for the cylinder, and rotate the cam until the exhaust lifter just starts to open, look at the intake lobe, where is it, then, rotate cam, open and close both lifters, and just where the intake lifter stops back down, look at the exhaust lobe.

Works on any engine, and cam, no problems.

Apologize for being so firm in this, but I have fixed so many botched valve adjustments done by every Rube Goldberg method in the universe.



Apologize for what? I came asking a question, I should be open to all replies. I have used the method you are refereeing to also. But I didn't come here and ask about how to adjust valves. My question was about lifter clack with the plug wire disconnected. I said nothing about noisy lifters going on. I mentioned in my original post that at times I have a rough idle some times not. Thanks for your response.

56 210 2dr


Edited by Jims56chevy on 09-10-19 09:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 09:21 PM - Post#2775307    
    In response to aghaga

  • aghaga Said:
I wonder if you are actually hearing the spark jumping to a ground somewhere when you pull the plug wire?



You know I will have to check that out, it's possible I had the plug wire close to something I didn't see. That spark jump could sound like a lifter clatter.
Thanks.

56 210 2dr


 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
09-10-19 09:27 PM - Post#2775308    
    In response to Jims56chevy

Also off topic, a friend ask me the other day about roller lifters, if you can adjust them with the engine running, I told him I don't know it's the first engine, I have had with roller lifters, told him I would try and find out, that's' why I have been asking the question, but know one seems to know. I have checked the web can,t find and answer there either. I'll keep looking.
thanks guys.

56 210 2dr


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17391
grumpyvette
Age: 71
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
09-11-19 04:42 AM - Post#2775317    
    In response to Jims56chevy

yes you can adjust hydraulic roller lifters with the engine at idle, thats generally not done that way but yes if you have experience it can be done and yes you can get good results.
same deal as flat tappet, back off each rocker slowly until it clicks, then slowly tighten just to the point the clicking stops and then add a 1/4 turn-1/2 turn preload.
thats not the main issue, you need to locate the cause of the noise and determine if its related to a component's excessive wear,or improper valve train, clearances, bad valve train geometry, or mal-adjustment... adjusting the valves will not solve those issues even if it quiets the motor temporarily


https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 09-13-19 12:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-11-19 09:23 AM - Post#2775336    
    In response to Jims56chevy

OH, I made a mistake in the last post, there should have been the letter "I" before the "apologize", it was not aimed at you, but at myself for being so adamant on doing it right.

You have nothing to apologize for that I can see.

My greatest apologies to you for the confusion, sir.



 
raceman6135 
Senior Member
Posts: 928
raceman6135
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Reg: 11-04-02
09-12-19 04:41 PM - Post#2775413    
    In response to Jims56chevy

  • Jims56chevy Said:
Anyone come across this, With engine running and plug wire removed the lifter clacks install plug wire clack goes away.



The only time I've had something similar happen was when I wiped one lobe on a mechanical flat tappet camshaft.


  • Jims56chevy Said:
Also can you adjust hyd roller lifters with the engine running like on a flat tappet lifter? Or can it cause damage to the needle bearings?
thanks



I don't know for sure because I've only tried once to adjust a camshaft's setting while the engine was running. My hearing never was good enough (and it's worse now that I'm older) to get an accurate setting. That, plus all the oil all over the place, even with oil stopper clips and modified valve covers, etc., was enough for me to get familiar with my feeler gauges on a not running engine.



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-13-19 09:45 AM - Post#2775456    
    In response to raceman6135

"Also can you adjust hyd roller lifters with the engine running like on a flat tappet lifter?"

With Poly-Loc's, only if you have 3 hands.



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3778

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
09-13-19 06:31 PM - Post#2775479    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
"Also can you adjust hyd roller lifters with the engine running like on a flat tappet lifter?"

With Poly-Loc's, only if you have 3 hands.



I have adjusted poly locks on a 350 Vortec running in a 97 Express van several times. Loosen the poly lock set screw, adjust the nut like normal, then move to the next. At idle they will not back off. Shut off the engine and tighten all the set screws. at idle the oil never sprays from what I have seens. Just kinda drips off the rocker. Set the idle as low as possible before you do it. Most small blocks with a streetable cam will idle 400-450 rpm.


1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 09-13-19 06:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-13-19 07:23 PM - Post#2775487    
    In response to 1983G20Van

Ah, we do neglect that the play in the threads of the loc and set screw will take up whan tightened, so, adjustment will get looser than wanted.

Nothing serious, but, not what the clearance was left at before tightening the screw in the loc.

Just my being through.



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3778

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
09-14-19 03:26 PM - Post#2775521    
    In response to IgnitionMan

  • IgnitionMan Said:
Ah, we do neglect that the play in the threads of the loc and set screw will take up whan tightened, so, adjustment will get looser than wanted.

Nothing serious, but, not what the clearance was left at before tightening the screw in the loc.

Just my being through.



Except I leave mine about 1/8 turn looser than I want. Lightly seat the screw, then tighten the poly lock. I have never had one loosen itself this way. It puts more pressure on the screw than you can put on it with the hex wrench. Generally speaking 1/8 turn locks it all tight.


1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 09-14-19 03:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3670

Reg: 04-15-05
09-14-19 07:09 PM - Post#2775525    
    In response to 1983G20Van

EVERY thread interface has clearance, even if it is .002, there is a difference in loaded and unloaded threads.

So, if the loc is right on, tightening the set screw will move the lock to the other side of the interface, and whatever it is, is loosening the loc.

That's the way thread interface works. That is why I compensate by using a feeler gauge that is the right thickness to take up the difference.

For me, I still can't adjust solids running, I still don't have a 3rd hand (heck, I might not even have a 2nd hand).



 


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