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Username Post: lubrication problems....        (Topic#357977)
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
09-08-19 05:56 PM - Post#2775078    

Guys,
I have a lubrication problem on a 327 street only motor.
This motor was professionally built by a well thought of shop here in Albuquerque, shop went out of business 4 months ago, so can't ask them any questions. Motor was built approx. 15 years ago and has run approx. 30K trouble free miles. Cam and lifters are Isky hydraulic rollers, very mild grind. Oil pump is Melling 55 pound, indicated oil pressure has always been 58-60 psi with 10W-30 Pennzoil changed at 2K intervals.
Now for the problem: approx. 200 miles ago I noticed upper valve train squeak coming from both sides of motor. Pulled valve covers, cylinder #4 & cyl. #6 & # 3 Comp cam 1.52 ratio steel rockers, with corresponding push rod tips and valve springs black from lack of oil and heat caused by lack of
oil. Replaced all effected parts with new Comp cams stuff, talked it over with two mechanics at Chevy garage. They agreed it could be a blockage at the roller lifters. So, installed 16 new comp cam lifters with the correct length push rods and reassembled motor. Fired up motor with covers off, looked to me like plenty of oil coming up. Drove car less than 200 miles, problem has reoccurred!
I will pull complete motor (not just valve covers & intake) and start looking for the cause of all this.
What I need from you guys is things to look for. My first thought is a restrictor of some kind in the two oil passages at rear of block that feed lifter galleys.
My big question is why the first 15 years were trouble free and now she is falling apart!
Sorry for the lengthy post. but wanted to include as much info as I could. Let me know what you think. Thanks! Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 


Gaspains 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 370
Gaspains
Loc: Mankato, MN
Reg: 11-23-09
09-08-19 10:07 PM - Post#2775106    
    In response to vet65b

Any chance that 3, 4 & 6 share a common oil supply? If so, something physical may have restricted/plugged it. Just speculating.

Kevin
1965 Impala SS Coupe
Regal Red with Black Interior
L74 327
M-20
3.31 Open, 12 bolt

65-66 FSCC #512
NIA #2832


 
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
09-09-19 02:32 PM - Post#2775171    
    In response to Gaspains

Tim & Kevin,
I talked with an engine builder here in Albuquerque today about my problem. Also mentioned (which I didn't in the original post) that the Pennzoil I am using now is labeled "For high mileage motors). This oil is different than the Pennz. I was using. The engine builder believes there is a very good chance that the ZDDP level has been lowered in the Penn. I am now using. He suggested inspecting rocker balls & push rod tips then adding zinc to the crankcase or switching to Brad Penn or one of the other high oils made for older cars.
What do you guys think....have any heard of extreme wear on rocker balls and push rod tips caused by wrong oil? BTY, valve seat pressure is 115 psi on the seat. Thanks! Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 
A White Sport Coupe 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 428
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
09-09-19 04:55 PM - Post#2775180    
    In response to vet65b

Hi vet,

Roller cams and rockers don't require ZDDP. That's for flat tappet cans and lifters. Did the same 3 get blackened as before or haven't you looked yet?

Bob


 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Original Founding Member Group
Posts: 4972
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
09-09-19 05:30 PM - Post#2775187    
    In response to vet65b

What about using a modified old distributor or a special oil pump tool and build up oil pressure?
Can very slowly hand crake---plugs out-- and trace back where low or no oil flow?
Kind of oil used I don't think is a problem. Mel



 
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
09-09-19 06:51 PM - Post#2775194    
    In response to A White Sport Coupe

Bob,
The lifters are roller, the rockers have roller tips but the fulcrum point is ball in socket.
Since the problem started shortly after changing to the different lube I thought the problem might be related to the oil.
Right now I am guessing and grasping at straws, I apricate all ideas. Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4504

Reg: 12-29-02
09-10-19 10:09 AM - Post#2775254    
    In response to vet65b

LS engines run rockers with bearing fulcrum, ball/socket at the pushrod and no roller tip. They use lighter weight low zinc oil. They don't seem to suffer from issues with the ball/socket pushrod joint. So, I'm doubting it's oil related. If you were only seeing fulcrum issues then maybe oil related.

Did you run it again with the valve cover off and check the pushrod oil flow?



 
Oshawa65SS 
Contributor
Posts: 989

Age: 60
Loc: Burnaby BC Canada
Reg: 09-22-14
09-10-19 10:15 AM - Post#2775255    
    In response to vet65b

Is the oil pickup screen clean?
Oil pump drive shaft splines in good shape?

Ryan

65 Impala SS Evening Orchid convertible 283 2V with Powerglide and 10 bolt 3.08 open by PO, originally 3.36
Build date Dec. 21 '64 Oshawa


 
Crusty66 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 400
Crusty66
Age: 60
Loc: Albany, eNZed
Reg: 11-04-12
09-10-19 02:40 PM - Post#2775274    
    In response to vet65b

I suggest you post in Chevy high performance forum

Someone there will give you a quick answer

Steve
1966 Caprice 396 496 496mkII TH400


 
Texasray 
"4th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 115
Texasray
Loc: Texas
Reg: 11-01-16
09-12-19 09:12 AM - Post#2775387    
    In response to Crusty66

Just a couple of thoughts, because I've never run into this specific problem before.
The oil leaves the filter, full pressure to main (center) oil galley running toward the front. It feeds each cam bearing rear to ft and around the cam bearing some is leaked out, the remainder of pressurized goes to the two parallel outside cam lifter galleys and the rest drops down to the main bearing under each cam bearing.
Now being that it is #3, #4 and #6 that are having a problem all feed thru cam bearing #2 and #3 could you have a problem there, with too much leakage or one of those bearings have become misaligned?
Again just going over in my head as to how the oil travels, if we had low pressure throughout the main galley then you would have low oil output to the front lifters.
I like what was suggested up top, that maybe pull the distributor & intake, spin the oil pump and look in those areas. The other thing is you may pull the pan to see if #3 main looks staved, but that is a lot of trouble for low probability of return. It may be necessary to have the block disassembled to find the problem.
Good luck. Sam



 
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
09-12-19 10:55 AM - Post#2775392    
    In response to Texasray

Sam,
Thanks for the ideas. If I wind up pulling the motor it will be inspected carefully piece by piece. I am hoping inspection of pushrods and rockers will reveal no damage to the parts installed a month or so ago. If they look good I will fill crankcase with a good racing oil containing ZDDP at 1200 PPM or better, then run a few hundred miles and hope the valve train stays quite. This will take some time to resolve but I will report back when I have more info. Thanks to all who offered advise.
What A great web site this is! Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
11-02-19 04:22 PM - Post#2779397    
    In response to vet65b

Guys,
Here's what I have done: Installed a third set of CompCams 1.52 roller tip (only) rockers. Fresh Pennz. motor and added a pint of ZDDP additive. I have driven 600+ miles with no problems. After removing the valve covers and thoroughly inspecting the valve train I find zero damage or evidence of overheating.
From this I conclude that any motor oil with 800 PPM or less of ZDDP will not damage roller lifters but MAY (depending on spring pressure) damage our old design ball/socket rockers.
The above is my test results, yours may be different. In the future all my oil changes will be with 15W-40 diesel oil which should protect all moving/sliding parts. Other specialty oils are available from several sources but I can buy diesel oil at wallyworld in the 4 qt. jugs for around $13 bucks. Back to the garage! Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 
jayoldschool 
Newbie
Posts: 43

Reg: 09-03-18
11-03-19 08:48 AM - Post#2779440    
    In response to vet65b

In your troubleshooting/parts replacing... have you run the engine with the valve cover off? This will instantly tell you if you are getting sufficient oil flow up top. It doesn't get messy at idle, but don't rev it. You can put some aluminum foil over the manifolds if you want, but you'll be able to tell quickly after start up if there is a starvation issue.

Jason

65 Impala convertible 327/250 Maderia Maroon/black California black plate car


 
vet65b 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 643
vet65b
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Reg: 02-09-06
11-03-19 11:58 AM - Post#2779454    
    In response to jayoldschool

Jason,
There is no starvation problem, the problem was to little zinc in the oil. I have an old valve cover I have cut the center out of that is used to contain oil while the motor is running so lifters can be adjusted. That way I don't spray oil all over. Plenty of oil is going to the top of the motor. I also built the motor with a Melling 55 pump which gives me about 30 psi oil pressure at idle and 55 psi at 2000 rpm plus. Bill

Bill Wilhelm
1965 Impala SS
1966 Corvette, ordered for my 23rd. birthday


 


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