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Username Post: No Start Issue - Can anyone diagnose?        (Topic#357789)
RAM_51 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5334
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-25-19 11:21 AM - Post#2774004    

Extremely frustrated. Not actually a Chevrolet...it's a 1995 Olds 88 Royale [PITA] with a 3.8 engine. Shop Invoice attached.

1. No start, no sounds, but lights bright.

2. Cleaned battery cables at battery - it started.

3. Noticed slight hesitation at times when ignition to the START position - but car started.

4. Intermittent starting - then extreme no start situation - can leave car overnight and it will start once in the morning, and never again rest of the day - bright lights, no sound, no start.

5. Cleaned connections at the starter - found the solenoid ignition stud loose, cleaned and tightened it - lights bright, no sound, no start.

6. Bought a new starter, but before installing, decided to run some tests.

7. Ran wire with light in line from solenoid ignition stud to ground - only got a light when car actually started.

8 Jumped starter from ignition stud to + battery terminal - starter engages every time and spins motor - with IGN in ON position, engine will not cont. running when wire is removed.

9. Car taken to shop - they called said it was the starter - however called back said it continued to go to no start condition even with new starter.

10. Shop said it was combination of starter and starter switch.

11. I instructed them to put my original starter back in.

12. Shop called and $457.00 later they said they replaced the IGN switch. [bill states Starter Switch $115.40 / Starter Switch R&R $163.90 but no evidence of that work being done...dust still on steering column]

13. Picked the car up, it started, got it home and it went back into no start, no sounds, bright lights condition.

14. Dropped the starter, repaired the contacts and loose stud on solenoid, bench tested starter - operates like 'gangbusters".

15. Installed starter...no sound, no start, bright lights.

16: Ran jump wire from ignition stud on solenoid to + battery terminal - starter rolls engine over without problem - but will not start. IGN in ON position.

17.

Attachment: Yakima_Automotive_Invoice.jpeg (1.78 MB) 4 View(s)




1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 




drtyler 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 553

Loc: Georgia
Reg: 05-06-10
08-25-19 12:49 PM - Post#2774013    
    In response to RAM_51

On this car, does the brake pedal have to be depressed for the ignition to work?

I had one recently that would not start because the brake light switch failed, so the car didn’t know the brake pedal was pushed. Started out intermittent then worked to complete no start.





 
50_Fastback 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 173
50_Fastback
Loc: California Central Coast
Reg: 09-08-14
08-25-19 01:34 PM - Post#2774019    
    In response to RAM_51

So if I'm reading this right the starter and solenoid function fine when bench tested but not when installed in the car when the ignition switch is engaged.

If that's the case I'd replace the wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid then hot wire it to verify the wire and connectors are solid. If that doesn't solve it then try another ignition switch.

Ron Starkey

Life's full of risks..........take one!

'50 Fleetline 350/350



 
RAM_51 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5334
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-25-19 02:57 PM - Post#2774026    
    In response to drtyler

  • drtyler Said:
On this car, does the brake pedal have to be depressed for the ignition to work?


Not required on this car

  • 50_Fastback Said:
So if I'm reading this right the starter and solenoid function fine when bench tested but not when installed in the car when the ignition switch is engaged.

If that's the case I'd replace the wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid then hot wire it to verify the wire and connectors are solid. If that doesn't solve it then try another ignition switch.


Correct! Bench tested fine...spins with a lot of power and drive slides to engage flex plate. Also when installed in the car and jumped to the battery, it turns the engine over properly. I am thinking the same thing...problem somewhere from the switch to the solenoid. On the other side of this, the invoice lays out [ I laid out] about a total of about $280 for a "Remove & Replace" on the Ignition Switch with no real evidence that any work was done there. They're going to hear from me tomorrow morning but only after I talk to another shop in town who specializes in auto electronics.

I have been doing some internet research. It would seem highly likely that the Passkey II VAT system may be at fault. I have purchased a by-pass resistor kit. Time to tear into the dash.

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1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14060
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
08-26-19 06:00 PM - Post#2774105    
    In response to RAM_51

Good luck Ram. That's why I like our old cars--simple to work on.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
RAM_51 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5334
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-26-19 09:08 PM - Post#2774130    
    In response to rrausch

Thanks, took my "point by point list" to an auto electric establishment today...long story short, they concur that the passkey is a strong possibility as being the culprit. They also said that it looks as though the other shop, if nothing else, overcharged...[insert choice words here]. Bought a multimeter and got 3.65 and 3.7 ohm readings off of the two keys I have, ordered a resistor pack specifically sold for GM VAT system by-pass on eBay, torn into the dash, and found the orange wire that needs to have the resistors added to it. I'm half way there. <BIG SIGH>

1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
RAM_51 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5334
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
09-03-19 03:06 PM - Post#2774760    
    In response to RAM_51

UPDATE: I got my packet of resistors that I ordered on eBay today. Reading the list that came with them, I determined that I needed to use the 3.74 OHM resistor and identified it using the color code and by lifting it away from the others [they were arranged in order according to the list]. I tested it with my OHM meter and it read 3.72 - close enough. In the car, I stripped the appropriate wires and using as set of alligator clips, I attached it temporarily into the wiring harness. I had my doubts, but to my utter amazement, I at least got clicking sounds from the starter. I jumped the car and, within 5 minutes, the engine started without problems.

Attachment: Resistor_Pack_for_GM_VAT_By-pass.jpg (2.9 MB) 2 View(s)




Attachment: Resistor_Temporarily_Attached.jpg (2.52 MB) 3 View(s)




1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 




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