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Username Post: T56 Magnum for my C10        (Topic#357650)
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-13-19 11:31 PM - Post#2773186    

After years of dreaming of doing a LS swap in my shortbed 65 C10, I decided to just stick with the 396 I swapped into it back in 2003 to 2004.

TH400 and 3.73 gears suck, the new T56 Magnum with .50 6th gear ratio sounds great, however on a truck forum, I got told the 396 will not handle/or run good in 6th with 3.73 gears

My C5 Corvette has the same .50 ratio and 3.42 gears, and has zero issues.

Some say carbs can't handle low RPM, and buying that transmission will be a waste.

Obviously I will only use 6th gear going at least 65 mph or faster, would use 5th gear .74 for anything slower.

Tires are 275/60 R15, either 28 or 29 inches, and are need of replacement.

With the LS1 swap I had planned on a 4L60-E, but decided carbed big block is a classic, and now the LS1 is dated, there has been so many changes, a LS3 and the stuff to make it run is easily 10 grand, not including a transmission.

Can a mild 396 with a good Qjet carb handle .50 6th gear at 65 mph cruising on freeway or not?



Edited by 1965C-10 on 08-13-19 11:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 


Mel Foye 
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Posts: 4849
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
08-15-19 01:36 PM - Post#2773255    
    In response to 1965C-10

What year did you and your Mom move to Ariz?
Not a punch in the snot but I have never been clear on your goal for this truck.
A 396, 373s and small diameter tires will give you low mpg. Friend with a 396 in his truck got 9.0 mpg with trailer, race car, tires, tools, fuel etc.
Completely empty he got all the way up to 9.5 mpg.
Leave the C5 out of any kind of a comparison.
On the T 56 I can see $5,000. dollars between the clutch pedal set up to the driveshaft. Plus I don't think you will be happy with your end results. Hope you end up with something you enjoy.




 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-16-19 07:54 AM - Post#2773301    
    In response to 1965C-10

Just my opinion.....
The T56, or any 6-speed tranny is highly over-geared, if you want to make full use of 6th gear. With 3.73 gears and first gear(2.97:1), that's akin to using a 2.20 Muncie and a 5.04:1, or a 2.52 Muncie with 4.4 rear gears. Second gear(2.10) is like 4.78 w/ & 4.17 rear gears w/2.54 trannies. Third gear(1.46:1) is like 4.25 w/2.20 or 3.73:1 w/2.54 gears. Fourth is 1:1, like your present rear gear. Fifth gear(.70) is 2.61; sixth(.50) is a seemingly unusable 1.85:1.
It looks like you've got a granny 1st gear, a wicked 2nd & 3rd gear, 3.73 in 4th, overdrive in 5th gear and super OD in 6th. Fifth gear will be your overdrive. If you want 6th gear to effectively overdrive(2.44:1), you'd have to switch to 4.88 rear gear. However, you'll feel like you're driving an offroading rock crawler in the first 4 gears(5.75/5.45/4.88/4.88). Fifth gear would be sane @ 3.61:1. You'll then have your 2.44:1 OD in 6th gear.
Many years ago, I remember reading about the GearVendors Overdrive, which bolted onto the back of 4-speed Muncies/TH350s/TH400s/etc . I believe it was dependable and worked very well. Run your 3.73's, your existing trans or a 4-speed Muncie. You'd have awesome acceleration and a 2.61 overdrive! The company's STILL around! https://www.gearvendors.com/hrgm3s.html
FWIW, I had a '57 truck w/low hp 454/350 trans. I swapped the 3.7 rear to a 3.0. With a 600cfm Edelbrock carb and stock exhaust manifolds, it got 17mpg. Of course, it liked the 750 carb better. That was one smooth running truck! It handled very well with the Camaro front end.

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


Edited by 5/7HEAVEN on 08-16-19 01:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Mel Foye 
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Posts: 4849
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
08-16-19 09:49 AM - Post#2773303    
    In response to 5/7HEAVEN

Good write up 5/7 and I completely forgot about gear vendors. Take care. Mel



 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-16-19 11:19 AM - Post#2773309    
    In response to Mel Foye

Thanks, Mel. I talked myself out of replacing my Muncie, when I read this article: http://www.gearvendors.com/wp-content/uploads/20 15...

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


Edited by 5/7HEAVEN on 08-16-19 11:37 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-16-19 11:30 AM - Post#2773310    
    In response to 5/7HEAVEN

By the way, your 275/60-15 tires are 28" tall. You might choose taller tires when you buy new ones. That'll help gas mileage. My truck had monster tires. Their large diameter and 3.00 gears probably helped my gas mileage.

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27645
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
08-16-19 04:38 PM - Post#2773332    
    In response to 5/7HEAVEN

Most T56 transmissions are 2.66 1st gear, not 2.97.




 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-16-19 05:17 PM - Post#2773335    
    In response to Rick_L

The OP mentioned a .50:1 overdrive, which has a 2.97 1st gear. The 2.66 1st has a .63 OD.

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


Edited by 5/7HEAVEN on 08-16-19 05:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Founding Member
Posts: 4849
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
08-16-19 05:19 PM - Post#2773336    
    In response to 5/7HEAVEN

Thanks for the hook up to gear vendors. We ran a Richmond 6 speed in r 67 Camaro road course car and had problems. Now it is in my 62 Corvette. After dozens of different 4 speeds the speed of the shifts is so much better/faster and non thinking than the 6 speed.
Now I think on the Vette maybe I would be happier with a 4 speed and gear vendors set up. Vette has seen 4-6,000 mile trips.



 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-16-19 05:35 PM - Post#2773338    
    In response to Mel Foye

Wow, Mel. Those are long trips! The longest road trip on Oahu (HI) would take a little more than 100 miles. The only reason I'd need a GV is if I wanted 4.11 gears to row.

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-17-19 01:05 PM - Post#2773399    
    In response to Mel Foye

  • Mel Foye Said:
What year did you and your Mom move to Ariz?
Not a punch in the snot but I have never been clear on your goal for this truck.
A 396, 373s and small diameter tires will give you low mpg. Friend with a 396 in his truck got 9.0 mpg with trailer, race car, tires, tools, fuel etc.
Completely empty he got all the way up to 9.5 mpg.
Leave the C5 out of any kind of a comparison.
On the T 56 I can see $5,000. dollars between the clutch pedal set up to the driveshaft. Plus I don't think you will be happy with your end results. Hope you end up with something you enjoy.




I moved to Arizona in 2005, my mom came out here in 2012.

I just want to truck to be drive-able and fun.

Before getting out of my neighborhood going 30-35 mph in 3rd in TH400 it already feels like it's time for another gear.

Get out on road with 45 mph it's worse, on freeway it's so loud and wound up high, not sure on RPM but extremely high, I only drive freeway if necessary.

I would consider a 700-R4 but those are not around anymore, and buying one from a place that specializes in them, the price is 50-75% of the brand new T56.

There is another T56 Magnum with .80 5th gear, and .64 6th gear ratios.

I'll double check.

I want to be able to drive the truck anywhere, daily driving, drive it on road trips, drive it to work.

I could just leave the TH400 and get bigger diameter tires, just avoid freeways as much as possible. Lol





 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-17-19 01:07 PM - Post#2773400    
    In response to 1965C-10

(1st) 2.66:1
Gear Ratio (2nd): 1.78:1
Gear Ratio (3rd): 1.30:1
Gear Ratio (4th): 1.00:1
Gear Ratio (5th): 0.80:1
Gear Ratio (6th): 0.64:1



Edited by 1965C-10 on 08-17-19 01:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Mel Foye 
*VIP* Founding Member
Posts: 4849
Mel Foye
Reg: 09-29-00
08-17-19 05:45 PM - Post#2773424    
    In response to 1965C-10

Thanks for getting back. There are some good ideas in this thread. I ran some numbers but too much unknown for me.
Does the C5 have an accurate speedometer ? AND can you pace the truck at 60 to check if both match.
Once you are 100% sure of true 60mph you need to find out what are your rpms at that speed.
A very loud exhaust can fool you into thinking it is really wound up.
So far I am pretty sure taller tires will be involved regardless.



 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-18-19 01:47 AM - Post#2773443    
    In response to Mel Foye

If you're looking for 700r4 overdrive..... https://www.amazon.com/700R4-High-Performanc e-Hot-...


or something cheap in your neighborhood..... https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/d/700r4-tra...

another one close by..... https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/pts/d/phoenix-p...

FWIW, my sister's '03 Toyota Corolla's auto trans died last month. I was there, and boy was it HOT! It cost her $3500 to fix it.....in Phoenix. I told her to junk it, not fix it. "But it only has 170,000 miles, and the mechanic said the car was worth $5,000." So she had the brakes done for another $500. Now how could I argue with that?! Not so funny

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


Edited by 5/7HEAVEN on 08-18-19 02:03 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-18-19 04:35 AM - Post#2773445    
    In response to Mel Foye

  • Mel Foye Said:
Thanks for getting back. There are some good ideas in this thread. I ran some numbers but too much unknown for me.
Does the C5 have an accurate speedometer ? AND can you pace the truck at 60 to check if both match.
Once you are 100% sure of true 60mph you need to find out what are your rpms at that speed.
A very loud exhaust can fool you into thinking it is really wound up.
So far I am pretty sure taller tires will be involved regardless.



Right now the truck is sitting, way too hot for no A/C, planning on getting it back on the road after Halloween, usually it starts getting nicer weather, at least at nights then.

Corvette speedo is dead on, I downloaded Waze gps app, and it shows how fast you are going.

Also tried it in GF'S brand new car, new technology is awesome.

Saw something that I would like to buy for the truck possibly, it's a gps speedometer, it mounts on your dash and only needs 12 volts, it uses gps to show your mph and odometer, pretty cool!

The exhaust is pretty loud, and it doesn't even have headers, yet.

The truck has been parked since 2013, I want to get it on the road again.

I'll try to call about that El Camino 700r4 transmission Monday, I'm off work then.






Edited by 1965C-10 on 08-18-19 04:37 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24894
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-18-19 09:15 AM - Post#2773477    
    In response to 1965C-10

What's the desired cruise speed RPMs? My truck does 1950 RPMs at 70 MPH. It can manage up 18 MPG with no wind and a bed cover on.
ZZ4 355 HP/405 ft/lbs 3.08 rear end, 255/60R15 tires, custom built 700R4/2500 stall.

Aerodynamics of a brick need RPMs to push. A gear vendor OD would be nice on an auto trans. I would consider one if had deeper gears.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-18-19 01:29 PM - Post#2773496    
    In response to gchemist

  • gchemist Said:
What's the desired cruise speed RPMs? My truck does 1950 RPMs at 70 MPH. It can manage up 18 MPG with no wind and a bed cover on.
ZZ4 355 HP/405 ft/lbs 3.08 rear end, 255/60R15 tires, custom built 700R4/2500 stall.

Aerodynamics of a brick need RPMs to push. A gear vendor OD would be nice on an auto trans. I would consider one if had deeper gears.



I'm sure a 700-R4 would make me happy.

Someone on Craigslist is selling a used Hughes built 700-R4 that is in a 1968 C10, with almost everything needed, says can ride in truck to see it run.

800 bucks, said they payed over 2100, and it has 25k miles, I'll call tomorrow.

Of course I know it could just be a junkyard 700-R4 and it has a Hughes deep pan on it, I'll call and ask.

Curious why they are selling it.




 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24894
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-19-19 04:09 AM - Post#2773535    
    In response to 1965C-10

Look at the servo size. If it's custom, the servo cover should be bigger than normal. Mine has a huge servo cover. Check the cable set up. It is custom or a stock TV cable? Check the shift points at various RPMs. Low speed to WOT acceleration. A hard shifting trans like mine, will shift smoother with higher RPMs. Cruise and slow RPMs will rattle your teeth.
Ask for a stall RPM range. In a truck, it will be slightly higher.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-19-19 02:32 PM - Post#2773584    
    In response to gchemist

I didn't realize it's in Tucson, not so close, probably 120 miles one way.

Looks like no metal tubing for cooler lines, just rubber.

Also the cooler looks inferior to the kind I use, which sits in front of the radiator, and is in fact a mini radiator for transmission fluid.

Please look at the ad and see what you think.

Also the seller uses quotation marks while saying no issues with the transmission, maybe I'm just paranoid but that seems weird.

https://tucson.craigslist.org/pts/d/tucson-gm-hugh...



 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24894
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-20-19 04:30 AM - Post#2773627    
    In response to 1965C-10

It's almost a bolt on application for your truck. Big plus. I would upgrade the trans cooler to a radiator style and go big. With $2100 spent on the conversion, I would assume the Hughes build is this one: http://www.hughesperformance.com/product/heavy-dut...
Good parts are used where needed. Five pinion setups, 3/4 clutch pack upgrades, and hardened sun shell. Mine has all those upgrades and more. So it should easily take BB power. The 2200 stall is semi city friendly. Mine is 2500 and rarely use OD within city limits. In city driving, I drive in 3rd and let lock up work as "OD".
The 30 spline counts fits '85+ converter set ups. The quotes are basically he's selling a good set up and not a bad trans. At $800, a stock rebuild would cost that much here.

With a test drive and better look at it, I would sell the 400TH and upgrade!

BTW: the ZZ4 in my truck. 10,000 mile motor out of a wrecked '70s Vette. I've put about another 10,000 on it. Runs crazy good and strong. A good bargain can be found on Craigslist.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-22-19 03:00 PM - Post#2773830    
    In response to gchemist

I talked to the seller and asked why the 700-R4 setup is being sold, parting truck out, etc.

Said he is putting TH400 back in it.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but if you have a good working 700-R4 why would you remove it to put in your TH400?

Also he told me another potential buyer told him to remove it from the truck that he wants to come over and buy it, however he told this person "no you need to ride in it first" and that way if the transmission doesn't work when it's put into the new vehicle, nobody can censored at him about it not working, because they saw it in action.

So he wants whatever buyer to come check it out, give him 100.00 deposit, he will then remove it in a few days or so, then buyer go get it and bring rest of $.

I guess next step is to just check it out in person.





 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 24894
gchemist
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
08-22-19 07:10 PM - Post#2773839    
    In response to 1965C-10

Sounds reasonable. If you go, mention us. Or wear site gear.
Once you see his truck, you’ll get a feel for a deal.

'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'95 Jimmy SLT (Bought @131,814)
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
5/7HEAVEN 
Old as Dirt Member
Posts: 5661
5/7HEAVEN
Loc: In a quandry
Reg: 05-27-01
08-23-19 03:25 PM - Post#2773900    
    In response to gchemist

Ask the seller if he's willing to trade your trans plus cash. If he's interested, drive your truck to him for a test ride. If the trade is successful, you'll have extra cash for new tires, maybe fuel injection!

'57 BELAIR sport coupe/383/4-speed


Edited by 5/7HEAVEN on 08-23-19 03:26 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
1965C-10 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 7266
1965C-10
Age: 41
Loc: San Tan Valley AZ "Phoeni...
Reg: 11-18-01
08-25-19 01:43 PM - Post#2774020    
    In response to 5/7HEAVEN

I called to go check it out Tuesday, but it sold today.






 
jktucker92 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 298
jktucker92
Loc: West Richland, WA
Reg: 02-05-17
08-27-19 08:54 AM - Post#2774176    
    In response to 1965C-10

Sounds like you have a plan in place. For what it's worth, I have an NV3500 in my '65 short bed C10 with a 327. It has a hydraulic clutch, but I was able to use the hydraulic dual cylinder from the 60-62 trucks for the clutch master, and had a custom hose made to mate the two together. The rear motor mounts were removed and I used a crossmember from an automatic truck to hold the back of the transmission up. I used an aftermarket electronic speedo, connected directly to the transmission, for speed. The crossmember that supports the rear motor mounts had to be trimmed quite a bit to clear the bellhousing, but the transmission gearing worked great with my stock sized tires and 3.73 rear end. Right now, I'm in the middle of an LS conversion for the truck, and it will end up with a 4L65E to go with the 5.3L engine I have for it.



 


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