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Username Post: Need shifter for 4 sp 1965 Chevy Impala with a console        (Topic#357180)
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-10-19 06:45 PM - Post#2770413    

If you followed my previous thread, I've had trouble with shifting on my rebuilt transmission. Best case, shifter has lots of play in it but works. Worst case, the shifter is in a gear (R or 1st) but the car acts as if it's in neutral, and it takes a lot of effort to get the linkage to pop back into neutral so I can get into a gear again. When you're in the middle of the street, and the blood is rushing to your face, life momentarily sucks.

My mechanic looked at the linkage again and said it's pretty worn out and suggested I replace the whole shifter mechanism. Some of you have suggested Hursts, which are cool and are apparently beasts, but I just called Summit and was told they can't determine what shifter I could use that would fit in my car, a 1965 4 speed Impala SS with a center console.

So, friends, any thoughts on my options?

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
Ecklers AutoMotive
Oshawa65SS 
Contributor
Posts: 906

Age: 59
Loc: Burnaby BC Canada
Reg: 09-22-14
07-10-19 09:40 PM - Post#2770424    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

It's easy to make a mistake trying to buy the correct original shifter since they look so similar.
https://www.detroitautomotiverestorat ion.com/detai...
The linkage setups aren't shown, but perhaps the website owner could help you out.

Ryan

65 Impala SS convertible 283 2V with Powerglide and 10 bolt 3.08 open
Build date Dec. 21 '64 Oshawa


 
6T5 
"2nd Year Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 196
6T5
Age: 67
Loc: Asheville, NC
Reg: 07-22-17
07-11-19 04:48 AM - Post#2770443    
    In response to Oshawa65SS

There are new and rebuilt Muncie 4 speed shifter gates on e-bay for the '65 Impala era with console. There's also the Hurst composition plus shifter system.


Is the shifter gate where the sloppiness is or is at the shifter rods (replace worn rods and or bushings) or sloppy at the shifter arms attached to the tranny (slots worn out, replace).

The shifter gate fingers need to be aligned properly before attaching the rods from the gate fingers to the transmission arms and getting the correct linkage adjustment to aid from being locked up in between 2 gears.



...Ed

1965 Impala SS


 
66cayne 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2836
66cayne
Reg: 08-06-08
07-11-19 07:01 AM - Post#2770455    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Here you go. Buy this (not mine) and have your mechanic lubricate it, install and attach your chrome shifter handle. https://www.ebay.com/itm/complete-factory- 4-speed-...





 
Gaspains 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 316
Gaspains
Loc: Mankato, MN
Reg: 11-23-09
07-11-19 07:19 AM - Post#2770456    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Jonathan

I just went through a total rebuild of my original Muncie shifter. I replaced everything but the shift lever and T-bar, the stamped cage that contains the shift gates, and the reverse shift gate. My shifter rods were all in decent shape so I reused.

Assuming you want to build an original Muncie. Here's what I had to do to make my shifter tighten up. I picked up the 1-2 and 3-4 gates individually off eBay and the pin/e-clip and reverse/1-2 separator from one of the Corvette supply shops. PM me if you want part numbers.

When looking at used parts, Tom has a great reference for the correct shifter handle. The shifter mechanism containing the shift gates seems to be pretty standard across the GM family for this vintage.

After cleaning and checking everything for wear, I put the cage in a vise and gently squeezed it to decrease the spread and push the shift gates together. Do this in small amounts checking for fit with the 4 pieces that go inside as spreading it will be harder than tightening.

The final player is the boot itself. My shifter still felt loose in neutral until I tied the boot to the hump. The boot gives it better side to side feeling.

Long post. Hope something here helps. Most parts are available but spendy. But so is a Hurst Competition Plus, if you can find it.


Kevin
1965 Impala SS Coupe
Regal Red with Black Interior
L74 327
M-20
3.31 Open, 12 bolt

65-66 FSCC #512
NIA #2832


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-11-19 07:27 AM - Post#2770458    
    In response to 6T5

Thank you guys.

Oshawa, I'll give the Detroit guy a call. Great website. I learned a bit checking it out.

6T5, I wish I knew the answer to your question. I just don't know. All I can say is that when I am shifting from gear to gear, there's plenty of wiggle. But this is my first car of this era (aside from a 69 280SL, which was also a manual...very tight gear box), so I'm not sure what's normal or not.

66cayne, I like this idea a lot as I get to keep the original shifter. I have some concerns though. How do I know this shifter will perform better than what I have? It's used, so I'm taking on some risk, correct? I've also read on some forums that the Muncie shifters aren't that great (some use less kind language). Will this one present similar problems in time?

Broader question for the forum. My mechanic has worked on Chevy's for years. But is it possible he's the problem? He took out and rebuilt the transmission; and he's adjusted it a couple times (or one of his employees has). Are these things complicated enough that he's making a mistake in the installation?

You guys rock. Thanks!

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-11-19 07:39 AM - Post#2770459    
    In response to Gaspains

Thanks Kevin, educational and beyond my ability, but you got me wondering whether I have the wrong shifter in the car. This car was a rebuild project before I bought it; would not be surprised if there are parts from far corners in it.

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-11-19 07:54 AM - Post#2770461    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Wonder if this would do the trick. Pretty sharp.

Remanufactured Hurst

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
A White Sport Coupe 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 394
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
07-11-19 04:35 PM - Post#2770491    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

I have the Hurst Competition Plus and it's fabulous. You'll need the Hurst 4205 mounting plate which can be somewhat difficult to find. Without the correct mount it won't work. See the reference section for all you'll need to know. Don't buy the shifter until you have the mount. You can readily find the handle adapter for about $25 assuming you want to keep the factory handle. Additionally be aware that you lose the reverse lockout when you switch to Hurst.


Bob


Edited by A White Sport Coupe on 07-11-19 04:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
6T5 
"2nd Year Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 196
6T5
Age: 67
Loc: Asheville, NC
Reg: 07-22-17
07-12-19 05:19 AM - Post#2770515    
    In response to A White Sport Coupe

This will for sure be a nice one. Looks like it will take #1957773 (I think) mounting plate which is on e-bay. I tried to locate a #4205 and couldn't come up with that number. Double check with A White Sport Coupe to verify...

...Ed

1965 Impala SS


 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1219
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
07-12-19 06:13 AM - Post#2770518    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

In the 'sticky' section of this forum there is a free 65 assembly manual pdf for you to down load. I highly recommend you do that.

If you scroll down near the very back (past all the a/c stuff) you will find how GM assembled the parts your are interested in. It gives sufficient detail compare the shifters and their respective installations (go the Hurst for their details).

I personally like the Hurst shifter better. But, If I wasn't going to bang shifts, I'd keep a Muncie (if it 'worked') on a virtually original thru-out car.

Going with the Hurst eliminates the T reverse lock out. Also the 'not-round' (but better, in my opinion) Hurst shift handle likely will cause interface problems with the boot. An after market 'round' shifter handle that bolts to the Hurst body and fits the boot 'hole' would solve the boot problem (if you can find one, I did not look). Something similar length and bend to the original should suffice. Shorter and straighter?

If the car is not original thru-out, I'd switch to the Hurst if I could find a round shifter handle that fit the boot. But I've never liked the reverse lock out feature. Clearly your choice, either should be able to be made to fit.

Pete





Edited by japete92 on 07-12-19 06:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
66cayne 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2836
66cayne
Reg: 08-06-08
07-12-19 10:43 AM - Post#2770531    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

RE: ebay Muncie shifter- Look at the ebay lister's feedback, its excellent. He deals in these parts regularly. I think it would be worth any risk. In time all shifters have problems, even Hurst shifters. After all, they are mechanical pieces and wear out eventually. The Hurst is a better design but finding one with all the correct pieces will be the challenge. The Hurst shifter you found on ebay is a rare and nice looking piece, but it does not have the mounting plate, rods, boot and other hardware required.



 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-14-19 10:00 AM - Post#2770672    
    In response to 66cayne

Ok, so I'm looking at a couple approaches here and would appreciate any final thoughts. I'm not married to my shifter handle; would be nice but not critical and I'm not into welding and the like.

Hurst Shifter

Hurst Kit

Or here appears to be the whole package.

Full Kit

Full kit seems pricey. And note I saw some of these items for sale a couple days ago and the price has already increased!

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


Edited by Estimated Prophet on 07-14-19 10:01 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1219
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
07-14-19 12:57 PM - Post#2770684    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

If you buy the Hurst shifter 'body' you have to buy the installation 'kit' (everything between the body and the transmission) for your car. The 'Muncie' stuff will not mate up with the Hurst. Shop around; you may find what you need a little cheaper (Summit? Jegs?).

Here's an example of a shift handle that MAY fit with the OEM boot:

https://show-cars.com/product/690

Here's another:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-5389016/ove ...

Shop around. The Hurst 'rectangular' (flat) cross section handle likely is too large to go thru the round boot 'hole'. Just something to check.

Pete





 
A White Sport Coupe 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 394
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
07-14-19 02:03 PM - Post#2770694    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Or you can use this with your factory handle. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-67-Chevelle- 1964-67-...

Bob


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-14-19 07:25 PM - Post#2770706    
    In response to japete92

Pete, are you saying what I've posted in the links above is incomplete parts-wise?

And are you also saying the handle may not work for my car?

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-14-19 07:26 PM - Post#2770707    
    In response to A White Sport Coupe

Thank you Bob. Nice to know I have that option if I want.

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1219
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
07-16-19 07:54 AM - Post#2770832    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

  • Estimated Prophet Said:
Pete, are you saying what I've posted in the links above is incomplete parts-wise?

And are you also saying the handle may not work for my car?



The full 'kit' appears to have all you require (but I did not study it). You may want to verify everything you need thru the Hurst web site. I was simply trying to point out that just buying the shifter (body and handle; which are often sold separate from the install kit) will not work.

The standard Hurst supplied supplied shift handle is 'flat' (with a rectangular cross section, it has a larger section modulus than the 'round' and is 'stronger'). The rubber boot for the OEM round handle has a round hole for the handle to pass thru. The larger Hurst flat handle won't fit thru it.

Here's a pic of my '63. It is not exactly like your car but may help clarify my point.

It has a Hurst shifter and handle. As shown, I had to 'cut' the boot to make the handle fit thru the round hole. That did not work well at all. I have since swapped the 'flat' Hurst handle for a 'round' one to solve the boot hole problem (and purchased another boot to replace the boot I fussed up). It now looks like a OEM install (except for the 1961 SS shift plate).

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete



Attachment: Version_2.jpg (47.71 KB) 5 View(s)






Edited by japete92 on 07-16-19 07:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1219
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
07-16-19 08:12 AM - Post#2770835    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

  • Estimated Prophet Said:
Thank you Bob. Nice to know I have that option if I want.




I would not go there.

One of the 'improvements' ( I won't call the GM/Muncie design a 'flaw') on the Hurst shifter is the attachment of the handle to the shifter.

On the GM/Muncie, the 'shifting' load is carried entirely by the one bolt (in tension) opposite the direction of the shift. A 1st to second shift puts tension on the forward bolt.

The Hurst design utilizes both bolts in shear. A stronger and more reliable design.

That adapter only allows a Hurst handle (which likely won't fit thru the boot) to be attached to Muncie shifter body. Kinda like putting 327 flags on a six cylinder car.

Again, just trying to be helpful.

Pete



 
427SS65 
"15th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 14663
427SS65
Age: 73
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
07-16-19 09:53 PM - Post#2770872    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Hurst doesn't make one any more. If you look in the Reference Material area, there is a spec sheet for the one they used to manufacture. It has a welded shifter lever (not bolted). You might be able to fit a Chevelle Hurst unit without an offset shifter lever. Make sure you can return it if you can't get it to fit.

https://toms427impala.info/CT/Hurst65.pdf

Look in my Flickr photos and you'll see the correct vintage unit.

Tom 65-70 Full Size Team Moderator

View My Photos Here

65 Impala SS Tahitian Turquoise


 
427SS65 
"15th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 14663
427SS65
Age: 73
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
07-16-19 09:56 PM - Post#2770873    
    In response to japete92

Pete, the rectangular Hurst handle fits thru the factory boot with no problem.

Tom 65-70 Full Size Team Moderator

View My Photos Here

65 Impala SS Tahitian Turquoise


 
427SS65 
"15th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 14663
427SS65
Age: 73
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
07-16-19 10:07 PM - Post#2770875    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Jonathan,

The top item is a remanufactured unit and is an incomplete CS4-65. You will still need the Kit in your second listing.

The second listing is the parts kit with no shifter.

The third item you show is apparently a new or NOS unit. It has the correct welded shift lever and looks like a complete CS4-65.

Either way, it'll be expensive. You won't regret it!

Tom 65-70 Full Size Team Moderator

View My Photos Here

65 Impala SS Tahitian Turquoise


 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-22-19 10:54 PM - Post#2771348    
    In response to 427SS65

427, if you were buying, which would you get? The full kit is about $100 more, seller is reputable and seems to specialize in Hurst equipment.

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
jailer252 
Poster
Posts: 1

Reg: 07-23-19
07-23-19 09:01 AM - Post#2771372    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

I have a 66 impala SS396 with the same issue. I can go from 1st to 3rd no issues. But 2nd to 3rd about 40% of the time it gets stuck. The car is all original, console car. Want to keep it stock and trying to find information is about as easy as the winning lotto numbers for tonight........

1966 Impala SS 396/325. Original owning family since new in 66'.


 
A White Sport Coupe 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 394
A White Sport Coupe
Reg: 08-19-10
07-23-19 02:11 PM - Post#2771385    
    In response to jailer252

Has anyone tried the replacement shifter from Classic Industries. $149.99 in their catalog page 583 Part#A512.
It appears to be a repop of the original shifter.

Bob


 
Gaspains 
"5th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 316
Gaspains
Loc: Mankato, MN
Reg: 11-23-09
07-24-19 03:57 PM - Post#2771471    
    In response to jailer252

Here's a picture of the parts that make up my original 65 Muncie shifter along with part numbers taken from the 4-76 parts manual. If someone has the part number for what I call the "cage", I'd appreciate having it for my reference.

Attachment: Muncie_shifter_part_numbers.jpg (3.41 MB) 3 View(s)




Kevin
1965 Impala SS Coupe
Regal Red with Black Interior
L74 327
M-20
3.31 Open, 12 bolt

65-66 FSCC #512
NIA #2832


 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1219
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
07-25-19 06:58 AM - Post#2771520    
    In response to 427SS65

  • 427SS65 Said:
Pete, the rectangular Hurst handle fits thru the factory boot with no problem.




That's good news for Jonathan. One less part he has to buy (round shift handle). Unless he simply likes the look of the round.

Thanks for clarifying.

Pete



 
Estimated Prophet 
Poster
Posts: 42

Loc: Oakland, CA
Reg: 07-28-18
07-26-19 09:41 AM - Post#2771657    
    In response to 427SS65

In a classic case of "you snooze, you lose", the full kit I linked above sold. I wonder if some sneaky chevytalker picked it up.

I may go with the two pieces, or I may wait until I can get a full kit. The vendor said he may have another one ready in a few weeks.

Thanks again for the help folks. Cannot wait to have this issue resolved.

Jonathan

1965 Chevy Impala 396/325 Convertible Ermine White with Red Interior, 4 Speed with Air Conditioning


 
aghaga 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2205
aghaga
Age: 64
Loc: Altavista, Va.
Reg: 07-05-08
07-26-19 05:05 PM - Post#2771688    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Jonathan
Get the shifter kit you listed above. It has the needed 4205 mounting plate. Find just the shifter box that does not have an offset shift lever attachment. Get the adapter to use your round shifter onto the hurst box.



 
427SS65 
"15th Year" Platinum Supporting Member & Moderator
Posts: 14663
427SS65
Age: 73
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
07-28-19 10:02 PM - Post#2771865    
    In response to Estimated Prophet

Jonathan,

Looking at the first ad you posted, the shifter arm on that ebay ad is not p/n 3686 (which is the correct arm for a console application).

Looks like the ebay photo shows a 3746 arm.

Keep looking!

Tom 65-70 Full Size Team Moderator

View My Photos Here

65 Impala SS Tahitian Turquoise


 
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