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Username Post: Crank snout vs balancer        (Topic#357152)
fujimook 
Senior Member
Posts: 194
fujimook
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 08-24-00
07-08-19 03:35 PM - Post#2770212    

327, small journal forged crank with snout drilled for balancer center bolt. Was going to do a leak down test and saw center bolt had come loose and was laying on garage floor. Went to reattach and realized harmonic balancer was wobbly. The keyway in the balancer was wollowed out. Mic'd the crank snout and it ranges from 1.234 at the very front of the crank to 1.246 inside the timing cover. Balancer ID measures 1.245. Balancer was Summit 8" OE Style SUM-161358. Same thing happened April 2018 and replaced balancer without mic'ing either. Probably drove less than 1000 miles since 4/2018.

Crankshaft Coalition says OE snout should range from 1.2460-1.2470. Am I looking at replacing the crank? Thanks.

70 Nova, balanced 327+.030, AFR 195's,TRW small dome, Perf RPM, Holley Spdbore dp, home made cowl air, small body HEI, Comp xs268s, Cloyes, headers, 4 speed, PowerTrax


 


grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17329
grumpyvette
Age: 71
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
07-09-19 06:16 AM - Post#2770256    
    In response to fujimook

its a P.I.T.A., but parts wear out, but you have options, a decent machine shop can weld and re-machine the crank snout ,
obviously that requires total engine disassembly , and yes it might be faster and cheaper to buy a replacement crank or use the opportunity to upgrade to a stroker crank assembly,
since you will already be forced to do a total re-assembly/rebuild ,
you can rebuild a 327 or look at this as an opportunity to find a machine shop that can sell you a cheap 350-383 rotating assembly, yeah, any crank assembly must match your blocks main journal size and rods must match the crank, and pistons must have the correct deck height,diameter and rods must also match the application.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ould-you-bui...


Chevy Smallblock V8 Crankshaft Journal Sizes


Gen.I, "Small Journal"
265...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
283...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
302...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
327...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"



Gen.I, "Medium Journal", includes "Vortec" 305 and 350 thru '98
262...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
267...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
302...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
305...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
307...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
327...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
350...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"

Last edited: A moment ago


IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 07-09-19 06:41 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
fujimook 
Senior Member
Posts: 194
fujimook
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 08-24-00
07-09-19 08:53 AM - Post#2770275    
    In response to grumpyvette

Thanks Grumpy. That's kind of what I was afraid of. Guess I really need to decide what I want to accomplish. Trying to balance what I'd like performance and reliability wise vs what I can afford to spend. Already looked in to having crank welded up - $600 and keyway cut $125. Now thinking "while I'm at it I might as well..." 355/383, forged internals or cast, roller cam, machine my small journal for large or pick up new block or crate motor...

70 Nova, balanced 327+.030, AFR 195's,TRW small dome, Perf RPM, Holley Spdbore dp, home made cowl air, small body HEI, Comp xs268s, Cloyes, headers, 4 speed, PowerTrax


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2036
beagrizzly
Age: 69
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
07-09-19 09:07 AM - Post#2770276    
    In response to fujimook

fujimook,

I believe that before I spent that kind of money, I would try using some shim stock between the crank, and balancer. If you get the right size, you should have to pull the balancer on with the bolt. Loc-tite it in place. Both the bolt, and the balancer. This will take two different types of Loc-tite. Pictures attached.
I did that once on a 265. It worked for a while. Obviously it has been loose for a time, so you really have nothing to lose.

Good luck,

Griff



Attachment: loctite.png (5.75 KB) 9 View(s)

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
fujimook 
Senior Member
Posts: 194
fujimook
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 08-24-00
07-09-19 09:17 AM - Post#2770277    
    In response to beagrizzly

Thanks for the suggestion Griff but with a 0.012 taper from the front of the snout to the rear my concern would be that if I wound it to 6-7K which I do periodically, I might see the balancer come flying through the hood or fender. If I just drove it like my wife suggests then I might be OK.

70 Nova, balanced 327+.030, AFR 195's,TRW small dome, Perf RPM, Holley Spdbore dp, home made cowl air, small body HEI, Comp xs268s, Cloyes, headers, 4 speed, PowerTrax


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2036
beagrizzly
Age: 69
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
07-09-19 02:08 PM - Post#2770303    
    In response to fujimook

Fujimook,

Please understand, I am NOT trying to be a jerk when I bring this point up.

By your own post the bolt was laying on the floor, and your pulley was still on the crank, right? Did it fly off the last time you drove it? Obviously not. You would have led with that statement. So, I am going to have to go with............

What ever you do would have to be some improvement, and you're only talking about .011. That's .005 to the side, which just happens to be the approximate thickness of a new dollar bill.
Pack the front with J-B weld before you install the bolt. If the back of the balancer is still square, the front should be pretty well centered.

Now, all of this is moot if you WANT to build a new engine, and this is your excuse, go for it.
If you're really trying to NOT spend big bucks, you have nothing to lose by trying.

I'm just sayin'.

Let us know what you do. You have my interest piqued.

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
fujimook 
Senior Member
Posts: 194
fujimook
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 08-24-00
07-09-19 03:07 PM - Post#2770309    
    In response to beagrizzly

When I read your initial response Griff I was thinking "no way". But since I don't have unlimited funds, I thought I'd look into your suggestion. After doing some research and talking to Henkel/Loctite tech support, I'm looking at using their Loctite 660 Metal Retaining compound with a new balancer, key and center bolt. The 660 is recommended for adhering cylindrical parts or keys and has a 3300 psi shear strength. I think I'll give it a try and see what happens. $200 is a heck of a lot easier to swallow than $700+ (unless I have a catastrophic failure). Oh well!

70 Nova, balanced 327+.030, AFR 195's,TRW small dome, Perf RPM, Holley Spdbore dp, home made cowl air, small body HEI, Comp xs268s, Cloyes, headers, 4 speed, PowerTrax


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27622
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
07-09-19 04:15 PM - Post#2770314    
    In response to fujimook

Anything that's going to hold the load and survive means it's not going to come off without destroying it if you ever need to take it apart.

Think about it, the belt load on the pulley is a substantial load that will have to be at least partially taken by whatever you stuff in there. And that load is cantilevered off the end of the balancer.





 
fujimook 
Senior Member
Posts: 194
fujimook
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 08-24-00
07-09-19 04:54 PM - Post#2770321    
    In response to Rick_L

I understand but when I asked the tech about removal he said all I'd have to do is heat it to 400 degrees; easily done with a propane torch. Yes I'd trash the oil seal in the timing cover but figure everything else would survive. No?

70 Nova, balanced 327+.030, AFR 195's,TRW small dome, Perf RPM, Holley Spdbore dp, home made cowl air, small body HEI, Comp xs268s, Cloyes, headers, 4 speed, PowerTrax


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17329
grumpyvette
Age: 71
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
07-09-19 05:19 PM - Post#2770324    
    In response to fujimook

why not call a few local machine shops,
lots of shops have short blocks and cranks that got dropped off and never picked up,
too see if they have a small journal 327 crank in inventory, around here I called a few and about $375 is the going price ,on a used 327 crank,
I did not get into the details,
but that certainly seems about right
yeah they might be .010/.010 under size but certainly new bearings and a new crank gets you back running, but if I was potentially going through all that work
a rebuilt 350 short block might be not much more expensive, if you trade in your 327 block,

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 07-09-19 05:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4214

Reg: 12-29-02
07-11-19 09:18 AM - Post#2770467    
    In response to fujimook

I was also going to suggest using a compound like you already found. If you want to add a bit more safety get a ARP balancer stud and use it following their directions and also red Loctite'ing it into place as well. Thata way, you can heat the nut to get it apart again if necessary as opposed to Loctite'ing the bolt in which would be difficult to heat.



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3586

Reg: 04-15-05
07-11-19 10:55 AM - Post#2770476    
    In response to fujimook

I have used a good quality two part epoxy after setting the balancer all the way in with its holder bolt/washer. I pulled the balancer into place and torqued the bolt, then removed the bolt and washer, mixed the epoxy, loaded into a syringe and needle, then added the epoxy around the snout and balancer, installed the bolt/washer, final torques, and waited a full day for it to set and dry.

No problems after that. Still easy to remove the balancer.



 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5434
bobb
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
07-15-19 07:47 AM - Post#2770731    
    In response to fujimook

i would not try to glue it on. i would be looking for a used crank.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 


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