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Ecklers AutoMotive
Username Post: tie rods and such        (Topic#356844)
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 58

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
06-16-19 12:17 PM - Post#2768576    

ive installed a borgeson power steering unit in my 64 impala. Its all finally put together but havent bled the system yet. I still have yet to connect the pitman arm, idler arm to the tie rods. Ive taken so long to putting all this together that its not really going back together that easily.
Where is the pitman arm suppose to be?
Anyone have any detailed pics on the underside of this?



 
Ecklers AutoMotive
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1201
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-16-19 01:03 PM - Post#2768580    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
ive installed a borgeson power steering unit in my 64 impala. Its all finally put together but havent bled the system yet. I still have yet to connect the pitman arm, idler arm to the tie rods. Ive taken so long to putting all this together that its not really going back together that easily.
Where is the pitman arm suppose to be?
Anyone have any detailed pics on the underside of this?




The 'box' for the attached instructions?

If so, you are not 'done' until you also provide new (tubular) upper control arms that will allow the REQUIRED (not 'recommended' as stated in the instructions) positive caster. The OEM stamped steel control arms are made for basically 'neutral' caster. Can't get the approx 4 degrees. Car will drive like chit without the 'new' caster setting.

AND, you will likely need new and improved front sway bar, too.







Attachment: borgeson_steering_box_inst_800106.pdf (147.47 KB) 17 View(s)



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 58

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
06-17-19 04:12 AM - Post#2768626    
    In response to japete92

I have done all that on the attached instructions from borgeson. Wasnt aware on the tubular control arms or sway bar situation. You have any pics of this on your set up?

  • japete92 Said:
  • sanee64 Said:
ive installed a borgeson power steering unit in my 64 impala. Its all finally put together but havent bled the system yet. I still have yet to connect the pitman arm, idler arm to the tie rods. Ive taken so long to putting all this together that its not really going back together that easily.
Where is the pitman arm suppose to be?
Anyone have any detailed pics on the underside of this?




The 'box' for the attached instructions?

If so, you are not 'done' until you also provide new (tubular) upper control arms that will allow the REQUIRED (not 'recommended' as stated in the instructions) positive caster. The OEM stamped steel control arms are made for basically 'neutral' caster. Can't get the approx 4 degrees. Car will drive like chit without the 'new' caster setting.

AND, you will likely need new and improved front sway bar, too.










 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1201
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-17-19 07:41 AM - Post#2768660    
    In response to sanee64

I'll look for some pics. If I can't find any, I'll take some.

You may get what you need from the web sites for the parts I used.

Just my experience:

I replace the OEM GM power steering on my '63 Impala because it was in need of re-building (control valve leaking too much). The remainder of my steering and suspension was in proper 'stock' configuration and condition. Nothing was 'wrong'. The car drove like '1963 new'.

In the end, I purchased all the following parts:

Borgeson power steering box part number 800106 (a rebuilt Delphi 600). I also bought the required parts listed on the instruction sheet (try their web site) but I did not have to purchase the 'pump' parts except for the hoses (I re-used what I had). One reason I chose that box was; when bolted to the frame it did not interfere with the radiator (some would have).

With only those parts replaced and the car aligned to original specs (a mistake), driving the car was an adventure. It wandered badly, wouldn't stay on center and was very sensitive to steering inputs. Not acceptable to me at all. I had read the 'highly recommended' 3-4 degrees of positive caster from the instructions but I did not realize how imperative it was until driving the car with out it.

Which leads to my next parts purchase. The Global West tubular control arms part number cat 84a (again try their web site). Because my goal was the +3-4 degrees of caster I needed upper control arms that could be aligned accordingly. The cat 84a has + 5 degrees of caster built in (as I recall). I searched for OEM style 'stamped' steel uppers that could accommodate the caster, but could not find any; had to go tubular.

With those parts installed and aligned to the 'new' specs (a lot of trial and error to get to what worked for me), the car drove MUCH better. Most of the wandering and return to center issues were gone. The car was drivable but it still was not where I wanted it to be. The problem was the steering was still too sensitive to my inputs (I kept the big stock steering wheel) and the cars inherent 'roll' during turns tended to cause a little over steer, which I had to correct for with small steering inputs. The two problems feed off each other. I drove the car almost a year like that and actually got quite good at handling the car. Further mods were not mandatory, but I was not satisfied.

Which lead to my next two purchases. The Global West front sway bar part number sb5864g (I chose that part over the Hellwig because of it's simplicity of design and ease of installation), and power steering pressure adjustment Borgeson part number 899001. I reduced the pressure to the power steering box ( little trial and error until I got it right) and installed the sway bar, and again had the alignment checked to the 'new' specs.

The car drives quite nicely. I still have a little too much roll from the rear end, but I'm really nit-picking about that. It's just fine. I could put a rear sway bar on, but I'm done (unless I change my mind).

I'm not pushing any vendor's products, just providing information.

The money's ($$$$) gone and the car drives 'better', so I'm happy. But if I had recognized all the changes required and how much it was going to cost, I likely would have simply rebuilt the stock system. Like I said, it is 'better', but the gain was not commensurate with the cost.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete




 
Ecklers AutoMotive
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