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Username Post: Tach weld or red loctite on oil screen        (Topic#354082)
79eliminator 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Montana
Reg: 10-25-18
11-27-18 04:37 AM - Post#2752488    

On my 454 can I get away with using red loctite on the oil pump pickup screen when pressing in or do they need to be tach welded. I do have a stick welder I can lightly tach it on.

1979 eliminator speed boat


 




grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 17234
grumpyvette
Age: 70
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
11-27-18 05:06 AM - Post#2752492    
    In response to 79eliminator

Tig is OK, BRAZING the pick-up once youve determined the correct oil pan floor clearance is PREFERRED
most loctite is designed to loose its grip if subjected to heat, engine oil commonly reaches 230f or higher.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?thr...

IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES AT WILL,FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"!
IF YOU CAN , YOU NEED BETTER TIRES AND YOUR SUSPENSION NEEDS MORE WORK!!


Edited by grumpyvette on 11-27-18 07:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4139

Reg: 12-29-02
11-27-18 09:48 AM - Post#2752529    
    In response to 79eliminator

I've tested using blue before using Loctite for an assembled engine. From the results, I have no concerns with using Loctite for that application. I started with a pickup that could be fairly easily pushed into the pump all the way. Cleaned the surfaces and glued the pickup into the pump. Once the Loctite was dry I needed a torch to put enough heat to it to get it out of the pump again. Loctite Red is good for 149*C or 300*F so low 200*F hot oil isn't a concern.

Don't bother trying to MIG weld it.



 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27511
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
11-27-18 01:33 PM - Post#2752554    
    In response to grumpyvette

  • Quote:
Tig is OK, BRAZING the pick-up once youve determined the correct oil pan floor clearance is PREFERRED



Actually the best process is to use a tig welder and silicone-bronze filler rod to join the pickup tube to the pump. It's not really welding, and it's not brazing either as there's no flux used or needed.



 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1222
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-30-10
12-01-18 04:01 PM - Post#2753023    
    In response to Rick_L

Make a bracket that bolts to the pump housing, weld it to the screen.

==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-01-18 04:43 PM - Post#2753029    
    In response to busterrm

Do it the right way, the way Buster said, make a bracket for the pickup to bolt to the pump body/cap, and WELD it to the pickup.

Brazing two unlike metals with a third one isn't the way to do it right, nor is using a single mig/tig wire is, either.

I have done a lot of English motorcycle frame work over the decades, STEEL tubing and castings, they were all braised together in their early days, no welding.



 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1222
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-30-10
12-03-18 06:27 PM - Post#2753259    
    In response to IgnitionMan

I agree IgnitionMan, anytime you weld regular steel, it creates what is known as the HEZ(heat affected zone), it can be relieved by post weld heat treating the material, thus bringing it all to the same strength levels. When combining 2 or more dissimilar metals they will never be the same strength level. Cast Iron will be the weakest link, and most times with vibration that occurs in an engine it will crack and fail. The end result is the pickup will fall into the oil pan you will lose oil pressure. I am no expert engine builder, but I do know about steel, welding and fabrication. I have never done any sort of welding on pickup screens or oil pumps. To me, it’s just not a viable method of securing the pickup screen. JMO

==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
79eliminator 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Montana
Reg: 10-25-18
12-03-18 07:08 PM - Post#2753264    
    In response to busterrm

Thanks for the replies. Now has anyone built a tool or have a way to tap or press these in without buying the tool.

1979 eliminator speed boat


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-03-18 09:03 PM - Post#2753284    
    In response to 79eliminator

I make most or my own tools, and for this, I angle cut the end of a piece of thickwall steel tubing to fit over the raised "flange" on the pickup tube, and push/tap that raised area on the tube into the pump cover.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4139

Reg: 12-29-02
12-04-18 07:06 AM - Post#2753312    
    In response to 79eliminator

Use the open end of a box wrench around the pipe against the ridge and hit the side of the wrench. Or use a 3/4" threaded nipple with the side cut out so it fits over the pipe against the ridge. A hose clamp can hold this one onto the pickup as you hit it into place.

You can also use a bracket like this to help secure the pickup.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/23620/1000 2/-1



 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27511
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
12-04-18 08:12 AM - Post#2753323    
    In response to 65_Impala

A 5/8" open end wrench fits many oil pickups. 3/4" fits many of the rest.



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-04-18 04:11 PM - Post#2753380    
    In response to 65_Impala

Everybody, take a look at 65_Impala's link, the Jeg's bracket, that is a GREAT fix, and well worth the price and effort. Darned good call.



 
busterrm 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1222
busterrm
Loc: Wichita Falls, Tx
Reg: 08-30-10
12-05-18 05:55 PM - Post#2753535    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Yep, good fix, useful, priced well. I would use a thread locker(on the bolt)to make the clamp around tube secure.

==== BOB ====
If I can't smoke the tires I want more!

1976 Chevy Nova
2007 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton
2008 Harley Davidson XL1200 Sportster


 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-05-18 06:51 PM - Post#2753541    
    In response to busterrm

From racing stuff for the last half century, I drill the fasteners and safety wire them. Just habit.

The bracket is still the best thing I have seen in a long time. Good call on it.



 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1498
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
12-05-18 07:59 PM - Post#2753554    
    In response to IgnitionMan

Great idea that bracket..but the container won't make it from Taiwan to Jegs until February.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-05-18 09:44 PM - Post#2753570    
    In response to mjc1

You have a picture of the bracket in the link, be creative.

That is the fun of our hobby, sometimes, making your own is really gratifying.



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4139

Reg: 12-29-02
12-06-18 06:57 AM - Post#2753610    
    In response to mjc1

  • mjc1 Said:
Great idea that bracket..but the container won't make it from Taiwan to Jegs until February.




If Jegs sells it branded with their name then it is an almost certainty it's actually made by another manufacturer, so do a little searching and you'll come up with an alternative.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pio-839061/ ...





 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1498
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
12-06-18 08:42 AM - Post#2753622    
    In response to 65_Impala

Thanks, I thought it might be a Jegs only piece. I've carted one at summit for my 327 build.

Here's a question somewhat on topic:
Should always use a new pickup? Or will the old one be fine after pulling it from the old pump? I'm thinking about the loss of press fit tension.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-06-18 11:31 AM - Post#2753634    
    In response to mjc1

Interference fits always loosen each time they are removed and reinstalled. Not even a bracket can tighten the interference fit in a pump to pickup if it has been in and out a couple if times.

Stock GM pickups are designed to have a screen bypass in the event they clog, allows the screen to rise up and open a bypass upon restricted suction. Stock ones had a hole in the center of the screen that would open if the entire screen became plugged up.

Not the greatest of things to happen, but an oil filter, pump and pickup are a whole lot less expensive than a whole engine.

Of course, GM could have made all of this a lot better by utilizing a bolt on pickup in the first place.



 
mjc1 
Senior Member
Posts: 1498
mjc1
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada
Reg: 09-15-04
12-06-18 01:01 PM - Post#2753643    
    In response to IgnitionMan

I just took the old pickup out of the pump, clamping the body in a vise and turning it, and I'm surprised how easy it came out.

1967 Grande Parisienne 4DR HT
My Flickr page



 
IgnitionMan 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3510

Reg: 04-15-05
12-06-18 04:50 PM - Post#2753669    
    In response to mjc1

It doesn't take much to have the pickup fit loosly into the pump, especially if it us installed at a bit of an angle into the pump cover.

GM designed the pickups to be a one time use item, in once, then removed and discarded, new pickup after that.

That is why some sort of pickup holder bracket is so beneficial.



 




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