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Username Post: flexing / noisy floor        (Topic#353878)
LtFrankDrebin 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5243
LtFrankDrebin
Loc: Coopersburg, PA
Reg: 01-25-01
11-12-18 08:43 PM - Post#2751213    

Our 2nd floor is constructed with 2x8s -- undersized if you ask me. They're 16" on-center and span 14'. The ceiling below is making all kinds of noise and it's driving me insane. 1) the subfloor was installed dry (no adhesive with nails) and 2) rigid HVAC ducting runs in some of the floor joist bays, adding to the noise. What is recommended as far as stiffening the floor and getting them quieter? Sistering? LVL beams? A lot of screwing and gluing? Unfortunately, the carpeting is new. I'm willing to tear down the ceiling drywall. I can tell you all kinds of tales about this house that was only built in 1978 (lack of rim joist, 36" stairs out of level 3/4" from side to side, floors out of level 1" in a matter of 6'...)

'56 210 Townsman wagon 6cyl/3spd OD | '58 Impala Sierra Gold 348


 




65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4172

Reg: 12-29-02
11-17-18 07:05 PM - Post#2751647    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

I think it's generally accepted that typical grade 2x8's can go a maximum of about 12' on 16" centers.

I'm not sure what to suggest. Using construction adhesive and screws to add another joints beside each existing one would strengthen them, but it may not stop the noise of the subfloor moving and squeaking against the existing joists when being walked on. Insulation would stop a lot of the noise, but some sound will travel directly through the materials right to the drywall side. Installing the drywall onto acoustic brackets could help the directly transmitted sound.

I'd probably sister the joists using construction adhesive making sure I got a layer between the subfloor and the new joist. Then, use insulation before installing the new ceiling. I'd also consider a DIY spray foam kit and put a layer on the subfloor and top of the joists to try and tie them together better.

But then, I'd also consider just biting the bullet and pulling up the carpet. Then, the subfloor can be pulled up and properly glued and screwed along with sistering the joists. If careful, the carpet should come up and be re-usable.





 
Don57 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1375
Don57
Age: 68
Loc: Illinois
Reg: 04-28-00
11-19-18 02:49 PM - Post#2751812    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

Had a similar problem with one of my houses. For me, it was an easy fix.

When I took up the carpet, I found 2 things causing the squeaky floor. The plywood subfloor wasn't well nailed and the sheets of plywood were installed butted against each other. The squeaks were coming from the plywood rubbing on some of the nails and at many of the butt joints.

I used 2 1/2" flathead screws (square drive) screwing the plywood every 12" along every joist. Then pulled any nails sticking up. Then ran a thin rim blade in my circular saw to create a gap between the plywood sheets. Depth set at the thickness of the plywood.

End result was really good. It's not as solid as walking on concrete but it eliminated the squeaks 100%.

Might work for you.

Don
1957 3200 Stepside


 
LtFrankDrebin 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5243
LtFrankDrebin
Loc: Coopersburg, PA
Reg: 01-25-01
11-22-18 08:24 PM - Post#2752154    
    In response to Don57

Thanks for the replies. Ideally, I would like to pull up the subfloor and properly secure to the floor joists with adhesive ( I love Gorilla Glue) and screws. I replaced a couple sections of the subfloor because of bad sheets (complete plies missing). Those new sheets I installed are glued and screwed. I believe that where one piece of wood touches another piece, it needs to be screwed and glued. That's why it would take me forever to build our own house, so instead, we buy someone else's POS. Because the carpet is new, I think i'm going to remove the ceiling drywall below. It needs to be redone anyway since it's sagging from the joists. I hate doing ceiling drywall work though. But I think I'll be sistering the joists. Should I use regular lumber or some kind of engineered material less prone to flexing?

'56 210 Townsman wagon 6cyl/3spd OD | '58 Impala Sierra Gold 348


 
CowboyTrukr 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
11-23-18 07:13 AM - Post#2752178    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

Micro lam beams will give you the strength you need. They’re heavy and not cheap, but they won’t flex.

Greg

'95 K1500 Z71 EC Short Step 5.7L+0.040/NV3500
'00 Explorer XLT 4.0 V6 Auto
'94 K2500 5.7 NV4500 ECLB - SOLD
‘87 GMC S15 SCLB 4.3 Auto - SOLD

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke


 
bobb 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5392
bobb
Loc: paradise
Reg: 09-05-03
11-25-18 10:35 AM - Post#2752307    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

sorry for my poor explanation of things here. does the joist blocking run straight through in a line? ive heard that zigzagging the blocking helps floor squeeks. i mean zig zag like at a 30 degree angle or so. not offset to get a nail straight through and not bridging. maybe more blocking or bridging would be more cost effective than sistering. im thinking that sistering may not be the hot ticket cause structuraly you have the same too short joist height. i like screws but it takes allot longer than a bang bang nail gun. more nails could be more squeeks.

70 L camino, grampa engine, g-force 5 spd, road rage suspension. Pray first before all else fails.


 
LtFrankDrebin 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5243
LtFrankDrebin
Loc: Coopersburg, PA
Reg: 01-25-01
11-28-18 03:36 PM - Post#2752697    
    In response to bobb

I'll look into the micro lam beams, Cowboy Trukr. Bobb, From what I saw, I do have the criss-cross joist braces. I just think 2x8s for a span of 14' is inadequate. I thought of maybe sistering with 2x10s and lowering the ceiling 2" below,

'56 210 Townsman wagon 6cyl/3spd OD | '58 Impala Sierra Gold 348


 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4172

Reg: 12-29-02
11-29-18 12:40 PM - Post#2752800    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

The 2x8 at 16" centers is not adequate. The spacing between them is as important as the size and span they are across.

If you put them at 12" centers then they would be considered OK (similar in strength to 2x10 at 16" centers), but no-one does that. Sistered 2x8 at 16" centers is similar to doing 2x8 at 8" centers and would strengthen it considerably.



 
LtFrankDrebin 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 5243
LtFrankDrebin
Loc: Coopersburg, PA
Reg: 01-25-01
01-10-19 07:43 PM - Post#2757080    
    In response to 65_Impala

Thank you for the help. I think I'll be doing some sistering along with some micro lam LVL beams, as Cowboy Trukr suggested. Today,I bought two LVL beams and the cost was $150! Should I sister every floor joist with a 2x8 LVL microlam beam or can I go every other (they would then be 32" on-center)? I'll be doing some heavy duty criss-cross blocking that will be glued and screwed. Maybe sister every joist, but every other one would be with microlam instead of regular lumber?

'56 210 Townsman wagon 6cyl/3spd OD | '58 Impala Sierra Gold 348


 
CowboyTrukr 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
CowboyTrukr
Loc: Salt Lake City
Reg: 06-20-09
01-12-19 09:20 AM - Post#2757193    
    In response to LtFrankDrebin

If it were my money, I’d start with checking level across the entire room. Then lay in the micro lams against the two joists sistered on the joist either side of the center one making them 32” apart. Glued and screwed.

Then, start in with 2x8’s sistered every other joist, but only adding a pair at a time so you can gauge how well it’s working. I would think after a couple pair, you’d have the floor pretty solid.

The one thing that is common with squeaking floors is shifting subfooor. Sometimes a nuisance squeak can be cured with an air nailer and 16d finish nails unless it’s not carpet. Second option for that scenario is shims from underneath to lift the sub floor and squirt in some construction adhesive.

Greg

'95 K1500 Z71 EC Short Step 5.7L+0.040/NV3500
'00 Explorer XLT 4.0 V6 Auto
'94 K2500 5.7 NV4500 ECLB - SOLD
‘87 GMC S15 SCLB 4.3 Auto - SOLD

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke


 




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