Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Classic Performance Products Classic Parts
American Auto Wire Classic Industries
Chevs of the 40sDanchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomEcklers AutoMotive
Nu-Relics Power WindowsRain Gear Wiper Systems
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy

Ecklers AutoMotive
Username Post: Steering Damper?        (Topic#353837)
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-09-18 06:39 PM - Post#2750928    

I don't suppose there was one for these cars? When I hit a bump at 40+ I get the death wobble. I have to slow WAAAY down to get it to stop. Odd thing is, it was fine yesterday when I drove it home. I took it to get brakes bled and alignment today and they said they couldn't do it because of the fenders.

The alignment isn't terrible either. Everything is new and seems tight. Any thoughts?

1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
Ecklers AutoMotive
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-09-18 07:08 PM - Post#2750933    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

What do you have for steering? Stock?

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Original58 
Contributor
Posts: 502
Original58
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Reg: 10-30-13
11-09-18 07:26 PM - Post#2750935    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

Find an older alignment shop. The newer equipment cant align the older vehicles due to their equipment design. Newer machines require 4 wheel calibrations and they body of our vehicles do get in the way.
No damper required if aligned properly.
Jeff

1958 Biscayne 283 Turbo-Glide 31,000 mi (now 35,000 and counting) driven daily
1966 Mustang Inline 6- C4 57,000 mi and growing daily
1929 Graham - Paige 612- the eternal headache that I will never sell


Edited by Original58 on 11-09-18 07:26 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Gene_Schneider 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12214

Loc: Wisconsin..USA
Reg: 09-27-02
11-09-18 08:15 PM - Post#2750944    
    In response to Original58

Find a different shop. There is nothing specail or unusual about aligning a 1959....problem could be that you are usung non-stock suspension parts.

ChevGene 1934 Master sedan 1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan 1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide 1957 Nomad 283 PG 1963 Corvair Convertible


 
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-10-18 05:25 AM - Post#2750961    
    In response to Gene_Schneider

It's all stock steering parts. Not original by any means but stock.

Could it be that the tires are too big? I have the H78's on there. Those are a 15" wheel and the tire height is 29".

The alignment issue seemed to be that their equipment doesn't fit on the wheel because of the fender and quarter panel arch. They said it blocks them from installing the parts.

1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-10-18 08:35 AM - Post#2750970    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

29 inch is tall, is the H78 wide too? What offset on your wheels?

I’ve seen the death wobble on lifted trucks with large rubber, could be something similar happening here. Got a set of smaller tires and rims to try or a set you can borrow? I have a tall tire on the front of my car and I’ve never had anything like a death wobble or heard of anyone else having that issue, but 29 inch is really tall compared to stock which is about 26 inch.

Find out from a friend with an old car who they get to do do their wheel alignment.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-10-18 08:44 AM - Post#2750971    
    In response to DonSSDD

I checked a converter and that’s about a 235-70-15 which is 9.25 inches wide, that’s a real big front tire and likely a good chance it’s causing your wobble, check the smaller tire Nd see what happens.

Are you getting any tire rubbing?

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


Edited by DonSSDD on 11-10-18 08:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PLS 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1234
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
11-10-18 04:43 PM - Post#2751018    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

  • TYTILIDIE Said:

The alignment issue seemed to be that their equipment doesn't fit on the wheel because of the fender and quarter panel arch. They said it blocks them from installing the parts.



A friend of mine sons run a tire shop that he started many years ago and he had a couple of classics and did and still does a lot of work on these old cars. I attached a picture of mine being align, he couldn't finish it at the time and I have got to take it back but he had to add extensions on the parts that attach to the tires because of the problem that you mentioned. Lamar

Attachment: IMG_4581_-_Copy__3_.JPG (422.27 KB) 3 View(s)






 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1684

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
11-10-18 06:27 PM - Post#2751021    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

Too much play in the steering box can cause this.



 
ragtp66 
Contributor
Posts: 743
ragtp66
Reg: 12-09-07
11-11-18 07:33 PM - Post#2751091    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

If you are running the stock ball bearing front wheel bearings I would check both the bearings and inspect the spindle where the bearings ride for any pitting. scoring or unusual wear. Make sure the ball bearings are adjusted properly also. Tighten the spindle nut while rotating the tires to 28ft/lbs then back off the nut and re-tighten to 12 ft lbs. If the castle nut does not align to insert the cotter pin back the nut off until you can insert the cotter pin.

For what an alignment shop charges you can pick one of these up and do a better job then 95% of the shops out there.
https://www.amazon.com/PMD-Products-Camber-C aster-...


I would switch over to the 61-67 hubs and use the taper bearings to be honest its a much better design and much easier to get the taper bearings.

Toys:
1958 Impala 2dr Hardtop Under Construction
1966 Chevelle Malibu Convert M20/350 Aztec Bronze
1987 Sea Ray Pachanga 22
2002 Cadillac Escalade EXT Parts chaser
2007 Trailblazer SS -gone and missed


 
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-12-18 07:34 PM - Post#2751207    
    In response to ragtp66

Car was aligned and still does it. It has to be the tires. I built this today. It's bolt on so we'll see what happens when the snow melts.




1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1157
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
11-13-18 07:41 AM - Post#2751240    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

From the pics, there is nothing 'stock' about your steering or suspension (or brakes). Everything appears after market. Stock/OEM alignment numbers are not appropriate.

To begin trouble shooting your problem you need accurate info on what you have.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete



 
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-13-18 06:26 PM - Post#2751317    
    In response to japete92

Fair enough.

Global west upper and lower control arms.

Pirate Jacks disc brake conversion (no idea what materials were used. I'd assume Autozone or the cheapest thing they could find.

Factory Spindles

Moog Ider Arm

Moog Pitman Arm

Moog Center Link

Factory Sway Bar

Energy Suspension Sway Bar Hardware

Coker 15" Wheels

Coker H78 Bias Ply Tires

Moog Inner Tie Rods

Moog Outer Tie Rods

Moog Tie Rod Sleeves

Borgeson 605?? Box

Borgeson Steering Shafts (2 joints)

So stockish?

The plan right now is to see if it goes away. I don't know why it hasn't occurred to me to do a good shake down, I'll hopefully have time to do that tomorrow. I made this thing bolt on so I don't have to booger up the car.


1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1684

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
11-13-18 07:14 PM - Post#2751324    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

You shouldn't need a damper if everything is set up right. Did you get a print out with the alignment? Is the there any play in the steering off the center position?



 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1157
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
11-14-18 06:59 AM - Post#2751348    
    In response to Shepherd

  • Shepherd Said:
You shouldn't need a damper if everything is set up right. Did you get a print out with the alignment? Is the there any play in the steering off the center position?



I agree. The car should not act as you describe with a proper stock steering/suspension, nor a modified system such as yours.

In my opinion, if the dampener does anything positive , it is covering up some flaw in material, workmanship, adjustment/alignment, or any combination of those.

Pete






 
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-16-18 06:47 AM - Post#2751529    
    In response to japete92

So we did a thorough shake down 3 times, checked calipers, wheel bearings, spindle arms found nothing. All I can say at this point is that the stabilizer works great. Ill be checking the front rnd out regularly in hopes to find a flaw.

1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-16-18 07:47 AM - Post#2751535    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

The 63 corvette, manual steering, had a steering damper.

Your issue may have something to do with your 605 setup, they can be hard to get working right and can have "bump steer" issues, whatever that is. I got rid of the 605 (it was a leaky old setup) on my car and went to completely stock. My 605 was really "twitchy" and sensitive, likely a bit too much boost. I had to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. My stock setup will track fine with no hands on the wheel.

Lots run the 605 and are happy with it, just search on ChevyTalk on this forum and the 61-64 forum, for 605 and you'll get lots of hits on issues.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
stanski 
Poster
Posts: 70

Reg: 05-05-16
11-16-18 08:54 AM - Post#2751539    
    In response to DonSSDD

On my 58 I was plagued with scary steering since day 1 which was 20 years ago. I did go the damper route, which helped, but still never satisfied. Last try was a 605 box which made a big difference and then upped my game with a low flow valve in the pump and now I have the steering feel I've always wanted.


rhttps://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustang-II-Power-S...



 
japete92 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1157
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
11-16-18 12:00 PM - Post#2751546    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

  • TYTILIDIE Said:
So we did a thorough shake down 3 times, checked calipers, wheel bearings, spindle arms found nothing. All I can say at this point is that the stabilizer works great. Ill be checking the front rnd out regularly in hopes to find a flaw.



The Borgeson box REQUIRES (their instructions say 'recommended') approx +4 degrees of caster. Which is why one NEEDS the new upper control arms (GW part number CTA 84a has +5 built in). Don't know what your car has been aligned to, but if the goal was to approach the original/stock basically 'neutral' caster, that would aggravate (if not cause) steering 'wander'.

Also, the integral Borgeson is 14:1 ratio (as I remember; maybe its 16:1?) while the stock power box is something like 22:1 and has no hydraulic pressure within it. The result is the steering w/the integral Borgeson box can get quite 'twitchy'. A pressure regulator like the Borgeson part #899001 can provide adjustment of the pressure and reduce the 'twitch'. The process of getting the pressure 'right' is trial and error (if there is a better way, I would very much appreciate knowing what it is).

If the 'new' universals in the steering column are not 'phased' properly, that can cause problems.

Don't know what springs/shocks you have nor their condition.

A 'large' sway bar such as Global West SB5864G reduces roll which will be helpful. That particular bar installs very easily and does not interfere with any other 'stuff'. There are other alternatives.

Just a few pieces of info for your consideration.

Hope this is helpful.

Pete



 
threeimpalas 
Senior Member
Posts: 1170

Loc: Central Iowa
Reg: 02-21-02
11-30-18 12:32 PM - Post#2752915    
    In response to japete92

You're also using an LS-engine. Which power steering pump are you using in conjunction with the 605 box? Some LS power steering pumps were originally used with rack and pinions, not the traditional steering box. This can result in an output pressure that's different than what you need and erratic steering response.

Mike
'58-62s and 348/409s


 
Ecklers AutoMotive
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

639 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.086 seconds.   Total Queries: 14   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 07:28 PM
Top