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Username Post: 64 rear differential removal        (Topic#353783)
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-05-18 07:35 PM - Post#2750556    

Trying to take it apart to inspect as its leaking (lots of sludge) After trying to pry, pull, smash...etc found out that the driver side rear axel needs to be removed first. How do i remove that? Its in pretty solid



 




sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-05-18 08:22 PM - Post#2750561    
    In response to sanee64

ALso since ill have to fill in with rear diff fluid.....whats current that i need. What fluid? How much to get? i know its filled till it overflows at the filler hole. Best place to get the gasket? read that it doesnt need ftv for the gasket?



 
pvs409 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2263
pvs409
Loc: Sergeant Bluff, Iowa
Reg: 01-10-05
11-05-18 08:29 PM - Post#2750563    
    In response to sanee64

Either axle can be removed first. There is not a specific order of removal (55 to 64 Chevys)

You need a slide hammer similar to this one. its bolted to at least 3 of the axle studs by reversing the factory style wheel lug nuts to mount the slide hammer piece with the multiple mounting holes for the studs in the picture.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-7374-Slide-Hammer -Pulle...

Paul

57 BelairHT 283/270hp 4 spd
62 ImpHT 327/300 4 spd
62 Imp CV SS 327/300HP 700R4
62 ImpHT SS 409/482 stroker 4 spd
62 Imp SS 409 - 5 spd Convertible under frameoff
Web http://paulstensland.com/


 
pvs409 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2263
pvs409
Loc: Sergeant Bluff, Iowa
Reg: 01-10-05
11-05-18 08:48 PM - Post#2750565    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
ALso since ill have to fill in with rear diff fluid.....whats current that i need. What fluid? How much to get? i know its filled till it overflows at the filler hole. Best place to get the gasket? read that it doesnt need ftv for the gasket?



Use 80/90 gear lube Lucas, Valvoline, Royal purple (I would not use synethic). 4 pints needed.
Gaskets fit 1955 to 1964 housings and are at any auto parts store. There are also gaskets on the backing plates on the axle (if you do not rip them removing the axles) A little extra insurance is to have a film of black sealer on the gasket.

If you have a posi rear end you need positraction additive added to the 80/90 gear lube
Like this: https://www.classicchevy.com/positraction-differen ...

Paul


57 BelairHT 283/270hp 4 spd
62 ImpHT 327/300 4 spd
62 Imp CV SS 327/300HP 700R4
62 ImpHT SS 409/482 stroker 4 spd
62 Imp SS 409 - 5 spd Convertible under frameoff
Web http://paulstensland.com/


 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2716

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
11-05-18 11:22 PM - Post#2750575    
    In response to pvs409

He most likely will need to have the O rings that go around the outer circumference of the axle bearings, if they tear coming out.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-06-18 03:49 AM - Post#2750577    
    In response to pvs409

Ive seen this a couple times but what is a "posi" rear end? how do i find what mine is??

  • pvs409 Said:
  • sanee64 Said:
ALso since ill have to fill in with rear diff fluid.....whats current that i need. What fluid? How much to get? i know its filled till it overflows at the filler hole. Best place to get the gasket? read that it doesnt need ftv for the gasket?



Use 80/90 gear lube Lucas, Valvoline, Royal purple (I would not use synethic). 4 pints needed.
Gaskets fit 1955 to 1964 housings and are at any auto parts store. There are also gaskets on the backing plates on the axle (if you do not rip them removing the axles) A little extra insurance is to have a film of black sealer on the gasket.

If you have a posi rear end you need positraction additive added to the 80/90 gear lube
Like this: https://www.classicchevy.com/positraction-differen ...

Paul







 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-07-18 02:27 PM - Post#2750690    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
Ive seen this a couple times but what is a "posi" rear end? how do i find what mine is??





Here is a comparison of a posi(left) and a non-posi rear. There is no mistake which is which. Both are 3.08 ratios.






Also, if it is an original posi rear, it will have a BIG P cast next to the casting number, as below.



To remove the rearend center section, BOTH axles have to be pulled out about 6in on each side (the center section CANNOT be removed until the axles are out).
Then remove the 10 nuts that attach the rearend center section to the axle housing. If the rearend has been in for a VERY LONG time, it will PROBABLY require using a big screw driver and a hammer to loosen the center section from the axle housing.
The LAST year for a drain plug was 1961. The 62-64 rears DO NOT have a drain plug. SOOOOOOOOOOOO, when the center section is finally broken loose from the axle housing----------------A LOT OF OIL IS GOING TO SUDDENLY POUR OUT!!!!!! Have a pan under the rear to catch the waterfall of oil!



 
impala 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1261
impala
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Reg: 07-13-00
11-07-18 02:32 PM - Post#2750691    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
Ive seen this a couple times but what is a "posi" rear end? how do i find what mine is??

Jack both rear wheels off the ground. Trans in neutral. parking brake off. Turn one wheel and if the other one turns in the same direction it's posi.
impala

61 Impala Convertible, AACA Senior Grand National
99 Jaguar, XK8
11 Silverado
18 Equinox


 
impala 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1261
impala
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Reg: 07-13-00
11-07-18 02:36 PM - Post#2750692    
    In response to impala

Posted the same time as DZ. I thought he might have wanted to know before he pulled the center section.
impala

61 Impala Convertible, AACA Senior Grand National
99 Jaguar, XK8
11 Silverado
18 Equinox


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-07-18 02:50 PM - Post#2750693    
    In response to impala

  • impala Said:
Posted the same time as DZ. I thought he might have wanted to know before he pulled the center section.
impala



If he pulls (or has already pulled it) the center section, the ring and pinion teeth are stamped on the end of the pinion gear, as below.
The teeth numbers are also stamped on the ring gear, BUT, frequently they are concealed by the ring gear flange of the differential.
The 10-37-GM on this pinion gear indicates a 3.70 ratio.





 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-07-18 05:57 PM - Post#2750711    
    In response to DZAUTO

wish i knew bout all this couple days ago lol. thanks to youtube i figured how to take off the right side of the axel out without a slide hammer. is there a trick to taking out the "center section"
Is there a clip/clamp i hear about as its not coming out.

  • DZAUTO Said:
  • sanee64 Said:
Ive seen this a couple times but what is a "posi" rear end? how do i find what mine is??





Here is a comparison of a posi(left) and a non-posi rear. There is no mistake which is which. Both are 3.08 ratios.






Also, if it is an original posi rear, it will have a BIG P cast next to the casting number, as below.



To remove the rearend center section, BOTH axles have to be pulled out about 6in on each side (the center section CANNOT be removed until the axles are out).
Then remove the 10 nuts that attach the rearend center section to the axle housing. If the rearend has been in for a VERY LONG time, it will PROBABLY require using a big screw driver and a hammer to loosen the center section from the axle housing.
The LAST year for a drain plug was 1961. The 62-64 rears DO NOT have a drain plug. SOOOOOOOOOOOO, when the center section is finally broken loose from the axle housing----------------A LOT OF OIL IS GOING TO SUDDENLY POUR OUT!!!!!! Have a pan under the rear to catch the waterfall of oil!






 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-07-18 06:53 PM - Post#2750717    
    In response to sanee64

Did you read what I posted above?



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-07-18 07:08 PM - Post#2750719    
    In response to DZAUTO

yup. ive done everything mentioned. both axels were pulled out slightly where its not connected. it comes out at an angle and it hits the side like somethng is still connected on the inside. am i crazy? something else im missing??

  • DZAUTO Said:
Did you read what I posted above?






 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6908
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-08-18 05:26 AM - Post#2750742    
    In response to sanee64

Did you pull both axles out say 6 inches? If you did then use the hammer and large screwdriver like Tom said. I assume it’s loose enough the oil drained and the center section is sticking a bit?

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-08-18 10:24 AM - Post#2750774    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
yup. ive done everything mentioned. both axels were pulled out slightly where its not connected. it comes out at an angle and it hits the side like somethng is still connected on the inside. am i crazy? something else im missing??




If both axles are pulled out about 6in, and all 10 nuts around the center section are removed, and a screw driver was used to loosen the center section from the axle housing, then there is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to keep the center section from coming out of the axle housing. IT'S HEAVY---------BE SURE TO GET A GOOD GRIP ON IT AS IT COMES OUT!!!!



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-08-18 03:02 PM - Post#2750805    
    In response to DZAUTO

ill check it again tomorrow



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-08-18 05:43 PM - Post#2750824    
    In response to sanee64

btw ive seen mix reviews regarding putting the gasket back on the differential on either to put any kind of gasket glue/lube/whatever ya call it



 
ragtp66 
Contributor
Posts: 710
ragtp66
Reg: 12-09-07
11-08-18 07:14 PM - Post#2750835    
    In response to sanee64

Everyone has their personal preference as to what sealer to use, personally I know it is probably sacrilegious to use on a Chevy but I really like using HondaBond it is not cheap but I have NEVER had a leak using it. Two hints, one everything needs to be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN when using it and #2 it is a PITA to get off if you have to open it up again, small trade off in my opinion.

Toys:
1958 Impala 2dr Hardtop Under Construction
1966 Chevelle Malibu Convert M20/350 Aztec Bronze
1987 Sea Ray Pachanga 22
2002 Cadillac Escalade EXT Parts chaser
2007 Trailblazer SS -gone and missed


 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-09-18 05:05 AM - Post#2750859    
    In response to ragtp66

oh it will be clean for sure. im not even sure yet of what i have in my box. thanks

  • ragtp66 Said:
Everyone has their personal preference as to what sealer to use, personally I know it is probably sacrilegious to use on a Chevy but I really like using HondaBond it is not cheap but I have NEVER had a leak using it. Two hints, one everything needs to be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN when using it and #2 it is a PITA to get off if you have to open it up again, small trade off in my opinion.






 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-09-18 11:30 AM - Post#2750899    
    In response to ragtp66

  • ragtp66 Said:
Everyone has their personal preference as to what sealer to use, personally I know it is probably sacrilegious to use on a Chevy but I really like using HondaBond it is not cheap but I have NEVER had a leak using it. Two hints, one everything needs to be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN when using it and #2 it is a PITA to get off if you have to open it up again, small trade off in my opinion.



I must thoroughly agree, everyone has their preferences. I've been working on and building these early rears (55-64) for over 50yrs, and I prefer to use a gasket between the center section and axle housing.
I use this Permatex sealer on both sides of the gasket. It comes in either a small or this large can with a brush in the lid.




 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-09-18 07:05 PM - Post#2750940    
    In response to DZAUTO

ok soooo i thought i did pull the axels out enough but i guess it wasnt
so its out and all cleaned up. got the paper gasket today. gonna wait for a buddy to help me put it back on as i will need an extra hand to bring that censored back up there.
does it need to be torqued?

  • DZAUTO Said:
  • sanee64 Said:
yup. ive done everything mentioned. both axels were pulled out slightly where its not connected. it comes out at an angle and it hits the side like somethng is still connected on the inside. am i crazy? something else im missing??




If both axles are pulled out about 6in, and all 10 nuts around the center section are removed, and a screw driver was used to loosen the center section from the axle housing, then there is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to keep the center section from coming out of the axle housing. IT'S HEAVY---------BE SURE TO GET A GOOD GRIP ON IT AS IT COMES OUT!!!!






 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-09-18 07:14 PM - Post#2750943    
    In response to DZAUTO

and its a non posi as it doesnt have the big P on it plus it looks like the one on the right. does have a stamped numbers like in the pic with the big "GM 4"

  • DZAUTO Said:
  • sanee64 Said:
Ive seen this a couple times but what is a "posi" rear end? how do i find what mine is??





Here is a comparison of a posi(left) and a non-posi rear. There is no mistake which is which. Both are 3.08 ratios.






Also, if it is an original posi rear, it will have a BIG P cast next to the casting number, as below.



To remove the rearend center section, BOTH axles have to be pulled out about 6in on each side (the center section CANNOT be removed until the axles are out).
Then remove the 10 nuts that attach the rearend center section to the axle housing. If the rearend has been in for a VERY LONG time, it will PROBABLY require using a big screw driver and a hammer to loosen the center section from the axle housing.
The LAST year for a drain plug was 1961. The 62-64 rears DO NOT have a drain plug. SOOOOOOOOOOOO, when the center section is finally broken loose from the axle housing----------------A LOT OF OIL IS GOING TO SUDDENLY POUR OUT!!!!!! Have a pan under the rear to catch the waterfall of oil!






 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-09-18 07:37 PM - Post#2750947    
    In response to sanee64

The big GM4 has nothing to do with the rearend internals. A GM1, GM2, GM4, etc, etc, etc, simply identifies the specific mold which was used when the case was cast. That's all.

The 55-57 rears used crushable copper washers under the nuts. They served to make an oil seal around the threads. The 58-64 rears used nuts which had captured steel washers. Personally, I prefer nuts and copper washers on all my rearends. An actual torque value is not listed. Just tighten them by "feel". With copper washers, they will need to be tightened 2-3 times until they have fully crushed and taken a set.





 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-09-18 07:46 PM - Post#2750949    
    In response to DZAUTO

thanks bud. you have been some great help



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-10-18 08:36 AM - Post#2750976    
    In response to DZAUTO

was just cleaning the nuts to the differential and just noticed......there were no washers!!

  • DZAUTO Said:
The big GM4 has nothing to do with the rearend internals. A GM1, GM2, GM4, etc, etc, etc, simply identifies the specific mold which was used when the case was cast. That's all.

The 55-57 rears used crushable copper washers under the nuts. They served to make an oil seal around the threads. The 58-64 rears used nuts which had captured steel washers. Personally, I prefer nuts and copper washers on all my rearends. An actual torque value is not listed. Just tighten them by "feel". With copper washers, they will need to be tightened 2-3 times until they have fully crushed and taken a set.








 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-10-18 06:28 PM - Post#2751026    
    In response to sanee64

  • sanee64 Said:
was just cleaning the nuts to the differential and just noticed......there were no washers!!




TRUST ME, if there were no washers under the nuts which attach your rearend center section to the axle housing----------------so meone, at some time, has been into that rearend. Possibly even changed the center section for whatever reason.
Also, did you find a round disc like one of the following shapes under the 2 o'clock nut? That is a gear ration indicator which was attached at the factory on EVERY rearend during assembly.
Back in the day, NO ONE had a clue what these discs were for. Thus, when the nuts and washers were removed and then put back on, it was common for the disc to be discarded.




 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5470
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-11-18 08:15 AM - Post#2751056    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
The big GM4 has nothing to do with the rearend internals. A GM1, GM2, GM4, etc, etc, etc, simply identifies the specific mold which was used when the case was cast. That's all.

The 55-57 rears used crushable copper washers under the nuts. They served to make an oil seal around the threads. The 58-64 rears used nuts which had captured steel washers. Personally, I prefer nuts and copper washers on all my rearends. An actual torque value is not listed. Just tighten them by "feel". With copper washers, they will need to be tightened 2-3 times until they have fully crushed and taken a set.





Tom,
I've pulled a lot of original 3rd members where the nuts did not have a captured washer. Those that didn't had nuts that were machined flat on the clamping side. These were exactly the same 3/8x24 nuts used on the connecting rods.
Maybe the difference was between the Buffalo and Detroit assemblies?
Since we know that the Corvettes only had Detroit rears, can you come up with a Chevy part number for those nuts from a Corvette-only parts book? We can compare that to the one I have from the Passenger/Corvette P&A.

Verne



 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 8558

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-11-18 09:47 AM - Post#2751060    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

OK, here is what I found.
Section 5.387 of Pass and/or Corvette parts books.
NUT ASSEMBLY, carrier attaching w/sealing washer, 58-61, part # 3750570.
This would be the nut that has the captured steel washer. The books I have shows this nut/washer for 58-61 cars/Vettes. Sooooooooooooo, maybe 62-64 cars' nuts only did not have any kind of washer. But, some of the nuts that I have with captured washers came off of cars up to 64 (if I remember correctly).


WASHER, carrier bolt, 56-57, part # 1456254.
This was the copper sealing washer that was used on 55-57 axle housing bolts (even though the book specifies 56-57).

The oldest parts book that I have is 1959, and goes back to 1939. It includes cars, Vettes, trucks.

Last, as I've mentioned, whenever I remove/replace one of these rearends, I use a plain nut and copper washer. I periodically re-tighten the nuts 2-3 times a few months after installation until they have finally taken full set (won't turn any more). The copper squishes down under the nut and around the threads of the bolt and makes a good seal. I have NO CLUE why Chev quit using this method of sealing the rearend bolts---------------it was a good method!!!!!!
Of course, another good method of sealing the threads is to use a copious amount of sealant on the threads before putting on the nuts, but then you get a mess of sealant squeezing out from under the nut.



 
sanee64 
Poster
Posts: 34

Loc: atlanta ga
Reg: 04-05-18
11-11-18 11:42 AM - Post#2751067    
    In response to DZAUTO

hmmm ill have to look in that area if i see a washer in that 2 oclock area. My bud was over on that side and took off the nuts on the right side of it.





 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5470
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-11-18 12:46 PM - Post#2751071    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
OK, here is what I found.
Section 5.387 of Pass and/or Corvette parts books.
NUT ASSEMBLY, carrier attaching w/sealing washer, 58-61, part # 3750570.
This would be the nut that has the captured steel washer. The books I have shows this nut/washer for 58-61 cars/Vettes. Sooooooooooooo, maybe 62-64 cars' nuts only did not have any kind of washer. But, some of the nuts that I have with captured washers came off of cars up to 64 (if I remember correctly).


WASHER, carrier bolt, 56-57, part # 1456254.
This was the copper sealing washer that was used on 55-57 axle housing bolts (even though the book specifies 56-57).

The oldest parts book that I have is 1959, and goes back to 1939. It includes cars, Vettes, trucks.

Last, as I've mentioned, whenever I remove/replace one of these rearends, I use a plain nut and copper washer. I periodically re-tighten the nuts 2-3 times a few months after installation until they have finally taken full set (won't turn any more). The copper squishes down under the nut and around the threads of the bolt and makes a good seal. I have NO CLUE why Chev quit using this method of sealing the rearend bolts---------------it was a good method!!!!!!
Of course, another good method of sealing the threads is to use a copious amount of sealant on the threads before putting on the nuts, but then you get a mess of sealant squeezing out from under the nut.



Yep, that's the answer Tom. I didn't look in that section of the P&A. Obviously, '62-'64 shouldn't have had the captured washers. Chevy might have stipulated that to the Buffalo & Detroit axle plants to save a few cents on each rear assembly.... Interesting!

Verne



 




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