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Ecklers AutoMotive
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Username Post: Winter project        (Topic#353765)
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-04-18 05:47 PM - Post#2750463    

I had my power glide rebuilt a few years ago and installed it two summers ago and it's been nothing short of a pain. It seems to be dragging for some reason and leaks like mad.

So I'm considering a swap over the winter months from a cast iron power glide to some thing like a 2004r or 700r4 or possibly a th350.

Have any of you made a swap....removing the PG and replacing it with something else?

If so would you be willing to share or provide thoughts on this type of swap.

Will/are there issues with mounts, flywheel, starter, driveshaft length, cooler lines or bolt patterns to engine (I have a 348)tunnel clearance ect., ect.

Thanks.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
Ecklers AutoMotive
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-04-18 08:17 PM - Post#2750475    
    In response to Hards..60

Just my opinion here, I drove my car from Rhode Island to Colorado with the Powerglide, it was brutal. I wouldn't hesitate to do an LS swap with the 4l60e or even 80e. Everything is soooo much better.

1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "17th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 6097
Keith_Knox
Age: 77
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
11-04-18 08:32 PM - Post#2750480    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

Don't think I would change out the engine. Of course I don't know if adaptors are available for the later transmission, but I would bet they are.

29-41, 42-48, 49-54 Moderator
1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966.
1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup, stock. Purchased 11/18/17.
1962 Ranchero Purchased 4/2017 221 V8 Auto. Sold 9/20/18
2013 F150


 
TYTILIDIE 
"2nd Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 195
TYTILIDIE
Age: 42
Loc: Colorado Springs
Reg: 10-21-15
11-05-18 05:11 AM - Post#2750488    
    In response to Keith_Knox

There are definitely adapters for all this, you can a whole kit for it. Its just nice not having to dink around with carbs, points and distributors.

1959 Biscayne with Impala Moldings, 5.3l LS Swap, 4l60e trans, factory PCM
1992 GMC Typhoon - Bowtie block and heads, forged everything, PTE76mm Turbo, 4L80E, Stock PCM's

"You'll never get anywhere if you keep starting over".

Me


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-05-18 05:31 AM - Post#2750490    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

Tytilidie, blasphemy to remove a 348 for an LS, and he has 3 carbs, you won’t go to heaven if you do that. You will also look much better with a 348 tripower than with anything else.

Lots of kits for this and lots of people have done this swap. Me I’d add a clutch and get rid of all those automatic tranny problems.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-05-18 07:00 AM - Post#2750498    
    In response to TYTILIDIE

  • TYTILIDIE Said:
There are definitely adapters for all this, you can a whole kit for it. Its just nice not having to dink around with carbs, points and distributors.



No that won't happen the 348 was also recently rebuilt and I have no issues with it.

Don....blasphemy is the correct word that I would use if I switched to four speed also.

I'm not a fan of four speeds, unless the shifting is automatically done for me.

Who and where can someone get information on these swaps?.....remember I live in Canada, eh.


Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-05-18 08:50 AM - Post#2750503    
    In response to Hards..60

Roger, I guess you are too old to operate a clutch?

Search “700r4 transmission on here and on 348 -409 in the 58-64 forums and you should find some guidance. I think the 700 is stronger than the 200, the t350 is an easier swap but you don’t get the od.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-06-18 06:54 AM - Post#2750591    
    In response to DonSSDD

Thanks Don, I will check those out.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-07-18 05:45 PM - Post#2750706    
    In response to Hards..60

Thought I'd add this.....
I received some very good information from Chevyfan60 that is going to help me out a great deal.

Thanks Michael much appreciated.

Love this site....

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
Chevyfan60 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 970
Chevyfan60
Loc: Longmont, CO
Reg: 04-19-01
11-08-18 11:09 PM - Post#2750847    
    In response to Hards..60

  • Hards..60 Said:
Thought I'd add this.....
I received some very good information from Chevyfan60 that is going to help me out a great deal.

Thanks Michael much appreciated.

Love this site....



You're welcome Roger, just payin' it forward!

Michael
1960 Impala 348, 1960 El Camino (x2), 1960 Nomad, 1992 S-10 Blazer, 2001 GMC Sierra 2500HD,
2002 Trailblazer


 
ragtp66 
Contributor
Posts: 743
ragtp66
Reg: 12-09-07
11-11-18 08:32 PM - Post#2751095    
    In response to Hards..60

Roger,

Just finished up a 700R4 into a 58 Belair that was a PG car. In my opinion I would not bother with a TH350 since there is no overdrive and about all you will accomplish is having a little better trans that won't puke all over the garage floor. The 2004r is another good choice but still requires other modifications. Kind of a coin flip but the gear ratios are a bit different for either OD trans, so you should take into account your current rear end gear, tire size and what you want your end result to be.

Short list of things I had to do for the 700R4

Trans Crossmember kit lots of different sources I chose Truckandcarshop in Orange Ca. But lots of other places. Show-Cars.com, Bowtieoverdrives.com etc.

Cooler lines are available prebent from https://shafersclassic.com/ or Show-Cars and fit like a glove.

Driveshaft needs to be shortened-- can be done locally--be sure to take note that on the front shaft GM puts the u joints 90* OUT of phase make sure you tell your shop to put them the same way when they shorten it and they will probably try to convince you that it is WRONG but it is not GM designed it that way if they are in phase you will end up with a nasty driveline vibration around 30-45mph. If you are running lowered suspension I would highly recommend also doing a slip yoke in the rear shaft. Showcars can help also Inland Empire Driveshafts can take care of you. If you want to upgrade the carrier bearing to the poly/billet unit then definitely do the slip yoke in the rear shaft. The stock carrier bearing is designed to allow the driveshaft to move front to back slightly as the rear end articulates through its travel, when you put in the rigid poly/billet mount the driveshaft can no longer slide in or out of the trans and that is why you need the slip joint in the rear shaft. On lowered cars it exacerbates the problem.

Chris

You will need to get a TV cable setup either Lokar or Bowtieoverdrives will be good choices. TV cable is CRITICAL that it is installed and set properly -not hard but is an absolute must you can destroy your trans if you try to drive it without it hooked up.

You will need a gear shift linkage kit -- Lokar worked good for me. Others have cobbled factory linkage to work. The shift indicator on the steering column is available form several sources.

All in all it is well worth the effort when your done. The car is much more enjoyable to drive and can cruise all day long on the highway. Engine temps run lower it is pretty much a win all the way around.

For your core trans try to find one that is 85-87 with a 30 spline input shaft Those have the better upgrades and are your best choice to start with.

You will need to add a new brake light switch and a little bit of wiring for the lockup converter again Bowtieoverdrives.

If you have a bellhousing mounted starter on the 348 you will need to switch to a block mount, the holes SHOULD be already in the block. The 348 flywheel should be fine.

I would highly recommend at least checking out Bowtieoverdrives.com website if you have any questions call them they are very knowledgeable and will answer any questions you have.


Toys:
1958 Impala 2dr Hardtop Under Construction
1966 Chevelle Malibu Convert M20/350 Aztec Bronze
1987 Sea Ray Pachanga 22
2002 Cadillac Escalade EXT Parts chaser
2007 Trailblazer SS -gone and missed


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-12-18 07:34 AM - Post#2751142    
    In response to ragtp66

Thanks ragtp66.
I'm torn between a 700r4 and a th350 right now. It feels like I've spent a million dollars on this car and still having to spend more. I live in a part of Canada that is away from places like speed shops and parts providers for our cars. I think I can safely say that everything I have bought for this car comes from the U.S. regardless as to whether I bought it from a Canadian supplier or not.

So right now I just want to stop the "bleeding" both money wise and transmission. I tend to believe that a th350 will be easier for me.

Really appreciate the info......undecided....

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
11-19-18 02:03 PM - Post#2751804    
    In response to ragtp66

  • ragtp66 Said:
.....If you have a bellhousing mounted starter on the 348 you will need to switch to a block mount, the holes SHOULD be already in the block. The 348 flywheel should be fine.....


All of the 348s I have seen were drilled for a block-mounted starter. However, the drilling on a 348 or any other Chevy V-8 made before 1962 will accept ONLY a 168 tooth starter (staggered bolt pattern). If your stock 348 flexplate will bolt to the 700-R4 converter, you should be good to go. If it won't, make sure the flexplate you get for the 700-R4 has 168 teeth and not 153.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
11-30-18 02:49 PM - Post#2752927    
    In response to raycow

Great information, Ray, I appreciate that...every little bit helps.

I have started to tear the car apart. I'm so paranoid that I will damage something when pulling out the engine and transmission that I literally take the entire front off.


Once I have everything out, I intend to set the engine and transmission on my steel workbench where I will be able to check everything without having to constantly crawl under the car.


Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
PLS 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1234
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
11-30-18 08:33 PM - Post#2752952    
    In response to Hards..60

WOW, I can’t imagine having to remove that after just getting it installed. I believe that section has more fasteners than the rest of the car combine. I would probably do the same thing for the same reason so you aren’t alone nor the only one that might seem to be paranoid. More work but better safe than sorry. This down time may give me a chance to catch up with you again. After I have had the car running the transmission doesn’t leak but the longer it sits without being started up the more it drips from where the speedo cable attaches to it so sometime in the near future, I will check to see what the problem is. Keep us informed. Lamar



Edited by PLS on 12-01-18 07:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-03-18 07:47 AM - Post#2753163    
    In response to PLS

Lamar, that's probably where my transmission leaks the most....speedo cable.

It also leaks at the tail shaft and there is oil leaking from the front housing.

I haven't driven the car since late September and even sitting there the thing is still leaking. I'm assuming it's a build up of oil since of late it has stopped.

Here's another one for the books. After having spoken with a buddy he suggested I check the diff. ratio before I commit to a particular transmission. I had thought of that but was motivated by the conversation to do just that yesterday. After having checked about five times I have to believe that the gear ratio in my diff. is 2.73, non posi.

I have since checked every web site I could think of to see what the ratio for my car should be I can't find anything anywhere that would suggest that my count is accurate.

Can someone help/suggest something about the gear ratio that should be in my car. Car has 348, tri, and cast iron power glide. As far as I know all numbers indicate 1959 or 60.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
Los59 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 235
Los59
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Reg: 11-14-10
12-03-18 08:40 AM - Post#2753168    
    In response to Hards..60

You may already know this and may have done it, I am also unsure if you would get an accurate reading but I have been told you can figure this out by jacking the car on stands and rotating the tires by hand to see the revolutions of the drive shaft to a full rotation of the tire.

1959 Impala Sport Coupe Factory 4-Spd


Edited by Los59 on 12-03-18 08:40 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Keith_Knox 
Moderator and "17th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 6097
Keith_Knox
Age: 77
Loc: Napa, Ca USA
Reg: 04-02-00
12-03-18 09:57 AM - Post#2753176    
    In response to Los59

If non posi one wheel has to stay on the ground or stay stationary.

Turn the drive shaft and count the turns for BOTH wheels to turn one revolution. if only one wheel turns then that wheel has to turn TWO revolutions then do the math 3 1/4 = 3.25 ,, 3 1/3 =.3.33 ,,,3 1/2 = 3.50,, a little more than 4 1/2 = 4.56 ,,etc. Rear end ratio http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/rear-end-ratio- 177...

29-41, 42-48, 49-54 Moderator
1948 Chevy Fleetmaster Coupe Purchased 6/2010. Stock with rebuilt 52 216 installed May 1966.
1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup, stock. Purchased 11/18/17.
1962 Ranchero Purchased 4/2017 221 V8 Auto. Sold 9/20/18
2013 F150


 
Los59 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 235
Los59
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Reg: 11-14-10
12-03-18 10:20 AM - Post#2753181    
    In response to Keith_Knox

Thanks Keith for breaking it down.

1959 Impala Sport Coupe Factory 4-Spd


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
12-03-18 02:52 PM - Post#2753218    
    In response to Los59

Not likely a 2.73 roger, most likely a 3.36 or maybe 3.08.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-03-18 05:16 PM - Post#2753244    
    In response to DonSSDD

Thanks guys. My fear is likely not the original gears.

What I did was jam the driver's side wheel, put tape on inside of tire on passenger's side wheel, also marked drive shaft. Turned drive shaft one complete turn while watching the wheel with tape on it. In one complete turn of drive shaft, the wheel with tape turned two and three quarter (2 3/4) turns or thereabout. So I thought 2.73.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-03-18 05:23 PM - Post#2753247    
    In response to Hards..60

WOE....Wait....

Is it possible that because I have 15 inch wheels, rather than 14 inch wheels...my count is a little off??

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-03-18 11:06 PM - Post#2753291    
    In response to Hards..60

Wheel (or tire) diameter has nothing to do with counting the axle ratio. It does affect engine (or driveshaft) revs per mile for any given ratio, but that's a whole other issue.

You did the math backwards. If the wheel actually did turn 2-3/4 revolutions for one turn of the driveshaft, that would be about a 0.73:1 axle ratio, which of course is impossible. So listen to what the other guys said. Get one wheel solidly on the ground, turn the other wheel TWO revolutions, and count the driveshaft revolutions. People have been doing it that way since back when General Motors was a second lieutenant. It's not rocket surgery.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-04-18 06:57 AM - Post#2753304    
    In response to raycow

Oh my....

Thanks for the kick in the axe gentlemen....

Two turns it is.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-04-18 08:54 AM - Post#2753322    
    In response to Hards..60

Please post again after you find out what ratio you have. Inquiring minds want to know.....

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-04-18 03:59 PM - Post#2753373    
    In response to raycow

Ok...for those inquiring minds and of course my benefit, I got just under 3.5 turns on drive shaft to two turns on the wheel.

So....best guess would be appreciated.

Thank you gentlemen.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7012
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
12-04-18 07:25 PM - Post#2753400    
    In response to Hards..60

I’m sticking with 3.36 Roger.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
Hards..60 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 549
Hards..60
Loc: Northern Ontario,Canada
Reg: 10-20-07
12-05-18 06:54 AM - Post#2753451    
    In response to DonSSDD

Ya....I'm with you Don.

Thanks for thoughts/opinions folks.

Roger.

1960 Impala 2dr hard top - 348 tri















 
BigDogSS 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4750
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
12-05-18 09:15 AM - Post#2753462    
    In response to Hards..60

FYI, I talked to the owner of http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/ a while back at a swapmeet, and he said 75% of phone tech support calls are for the TH200-4R transmission vs. 25% for the TH700-R4. And his sales are 80% 700-R4 vs. 20% 200-4R. He says 700-R4 are easier to install/set up, but people want the 200-4R because of the "better" gear ratios, which he says you really can't tell the difference. He recommends the 700-R4, if you decide to go OD.

  • Hards..60 Said:
....Love this site....


Cool! Please consider becoming a Supporting Member!
https://www.chevytalk.org/membership1.html


    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS Sport Coupe 396 - Marina Blue FF - personal "barn-find" lol



Edited by BigDogSS on 12-05-18 12:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-05-18 10:07 AM - Post#2753472    
    In response to Hards..60

Thank you for taking the time to count the ratio and post it.

Now just to stir the pot a little more, here is what GM thinks you should have in there.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1959_60/...

So is GM wrong, or did they just fail to mention that a buyer could order an optional ratio? If it's a gear they already have sitting on the shelf, the cost would have been minimal, perhaps even free.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
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