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Username Post: Advice on where to cut quarter panel        (Topic#353436)
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-13-18 06:07 PM - Post#2748605    

After replacing entire rear deck under tail lights, I'm finally getting ready to install new trunk floor, trunk drop down, and lower quarter. Any advice on where to cut lower quarter from those more experienced than me would be greatly appreciated.

Option1 gets me to good metal on the original quarter and was where I was first thinking I'd cut.

Option2 would be just under the rear bump out

Option3 would be just under the original body line

(YES - that is a combination of Paper+Bondo+Fiberglass in the lower quarter a PO used)

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Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 

Ecklers AutoMotive

Jens 
58-60 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 7119
Jens
Loc: Iowa.
Reg: 04-21-02
10-14-18 01:04 PM - Post#2748659    
    In response to 60Impala1837

In a case like that cut the least amount of bad/rusty metal and don't make any more work for yourself than you have to.
If you don't already have one, try purchasing an inexpensive air flange/punch tool and practice crimping/punching up some scrap metal.
Also when you skip around on your stitch and plug welds hit the area immediately following with compressed air to avoid warping.





 
stevelegel 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 107
stevelegel
Loc: Detroit MI
Reg: 09-27-09
10-14-18 02:33 PM - Post#2748663    
    In response to Jens

I kept the most amount of original metal and fabricated the lower , less detailed corner from flat stock.

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60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-14-18 04:33 PM - Post#2748677    
    In response to Jens

Thanks the help Jens. I’ve been using lots of plug welds to braces and butt welds for rear deck patches under tail lights.
This is my first quarter panel and thought butt welds were what was normally done but if flanges are the best way to go, it’s time to learn how to use flanges.

Do you normally flange/punch the patch panel horizontal edge and also the vertical edge near wheel or just use butt weld there?

Jim

Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
stevelegel 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 107
stevelegel
Loc: Detroit MI
Reg: 09-27-09
10-14-18 04:56 PM - Post#2748684    
    In response to 60Impala1837

I flange it where I can. I use sheet metal screws to secure it. I start with one screw, and make any modifications and add one screw at a time though the original good metal outside the repair through the offset flange up under the original good metal, and screw through the two. That way, I always have a known spot to work from. The flanging tool will make the correct offset so your repair panel will be in the same profile as the adjacent original metal. Where I can, I weld inside and out and slowly close the seam, taking out one screw at a time and welding in the hole. I grind a lot after, though




 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-14-18 05:00 PM - Post#2748686    
    In response to stevelegel

Steve - Nice work on that panel. I went ahead and bought a repop thinkkng it would easier but I’m about to find out if that’s true when I try to dry fit everything.

Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
stevelegel 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 107
stevelegel
Loc: Detroit MI
Reg: 09-27-09
10-15-18 03:36 AM - Post#2748711    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Dry fit for sure..consider putting in a screw, so you always have one exact point of reference for each change. For every action, there is a reaction when you bend metal.

thank you for compliment.

I'm a Dentist...we fix things. Funny about metal work, it's like fixing a cavity, only bigger, dirtier. But you remove decay (rust) and replace it with something that functions like original, and if it is in an area that shows, try make your best work not show...natural tooth = original fender!



Edited by stevelegel on 10-15-18 03:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-15-18 06:52 AM - Post#2748720    
    In response to stevelegel

I can the similarity in purpose and approach.

If you have access to the inside and can weld the outside flange seam and the inside flange seam, do you need to plug weld flange to original panel too ?

Do you always put flange on the replacement panel and tuck the replacement behind the original panel ?

Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
stevelegel 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 107
stevelegel
Loc: Detroit MI
Reg: 09-27-09
10-15-18 11:41 AM - Post#2748747    
    In response to 60Impala1837

yes, where ever I can weld on inside I will. For the quarter panel I posted, after it was secured on outside, I still had the inner (trunk drop down extension) open so I cold access it. Sometimes you don't, and such is that.

The offset flange is always behind the original sheet metal, so you have to oversize your pattern by about 1/4 inch to account for the flange. If you offset it the other way (outside the original, your repair panel profile will stick out from the original body

I plug weld the holes where I take out the sheet metal screws after the panel is welded in

Sometimes I have to pound (I mean recontour) the repair panel to match the profile.

BTW, I start with sandblasting just the affected area, mark off with tape or sharpie and ruler, and transfer to paper pattern. Then I cut out the weak metal, then make sure my paper pattern still matches, and adjust the paper pattern if needed. Then I transfer the paper to stiff cardboard (not corrugated, but like cereal box) and add my 1/4 inch for the flange. Then I tape up the pattern to the body and figure out where it will need cuts and sharp bends. If I need, I tape up additional cardboard to my original; pattern until the carboard patch mimics what my sheet metal finish will be like.

Then I unfold the cardboard and flatten it onto sheet stock and trace the outline and cut it and start to add sharp bends. Then I take it to the car and drill and set one short sheet metal screw to hold it. I make sure it's gonna do what I want and make trim or bend adjustments adding additional screws each time I take it off and back to the work bench. They make fancy lever action grippers rather than screws to screw in and unscrew. Once it is in place and I am happy with contour and position and bends, then the Miller Matic comes out.

Compound bends, like wheel well lips I will do in multiple pieces
Best wishes for you project.



Edited by stevelegel on 10-15-18 11:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-15-18 12:15 PM - Post#2748752    
    In response to 60Impala1837

A little advice bought by experience. Don't cut where you are welding sheet metal overhead. It makes it really difficult to get smooth.


Where your cut line #3 is puts you on the underside of the body line. It also makes it harder to hammer, and dolly.

Ask me how I know.

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-15-18 09:49 PM - Post#2748793    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Thanks for all the great advice!
I'm going to pickup an air flange/punch tool and get ready for some dry fitting.

Griff - Great point on trying to avoid welding upside down. I added some pics of my recent repairs under rear window to my build thread .... I'm just glad to be working on a panel I can see without welding upside down.
https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/324393/

Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-16-18 07:45 AM - Post#2748819    
    In response to 60Impala1837

60IMPALA,

I have a question for you. I noticed in your build thread pics a small block with a blower on top. Then the test drive shows no blower. What happened to the blower? That would be an awesome underhood visual.

I'm just saying.

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-16-18 06:28 PM - Post#2748863    
    In response to beagrizzly

Griff - I bought the car with a non-original '59 283 and worn out '63 PG. I got it running and drove it for a year or so and then started on metal repairs. Last year I decided, I'd rather have a manual transmission than rebuild the PG so I found the Richmond 5sp with OD and Paul (pvs409) helped me out with all the '60 specific pieces for the conversion.

At that point, I had every intention of running the 283 with the 5sp (really I did). Then, a friend of mine offered me a great deal on the 383 blower motor that is brand new but been sitting in a garage for 25yrs. So, the blower motor is waiting for me to finish getting the trunk floor & quarter panels fixed up.

After I finish metal repair I'm going to have decide whether to go ahead with paint or leave it ugly and focus on getting the motor, trans, drive shaft and Ford 9" installed and drive it for a while before paint.



Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-17-18 05:44 AM - Post#2748877    
    In response to 60Impala1837

1837,

Ugly has it's own appeal. For me, driving has more appeal than paint.

Even ugly, you're going to turn heads. A lot more than an Acura!!

Another suggestion? Take the hood off. Let that blower shine!! Another plus for taking the hood off is the fact that you won't have to cut it until you are ready to paint. Then you can decide if you want to cut your original hood, or get a fiberglass one.

As someone that has taken WAAAAAAY too long to get mine on the road, DRIVE that puppy!!

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-17-18 06:55 AM - Post#2748881    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Griff,
We think alike, after a couple years of metal work and collecting cool parts .... i NEED to drive it again.

Everytime I drove it looking like it does now, I had people asking me if it was for sale.

If I go the route where the car does not get paint for 1, 2, or 5 years I'd really like to ask what should I do to protect the body. I haven't touched the panels except for areas I'm repairing so I have a combination of fresh new bare metal, old mud from someone else's work, old primer, and original paint.

Easiest would be just hit bare metal areas with epoxy primer and add to the existing half censored color combination.

Or, scuff what's there and hit the whole car with epoxy primer knowing it all comes off later for body work & paint.

Or, without pulling glass & trim, I could take the panels down to bare metal and hit most of body with black epoxy primer in hope that this might save effort later when I decide to paint.

Opinions welcome......

Attachment: 04.jpg (502.09 KB) 4 View(s)




Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1466

Age: 69
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
10-17-18 07:15 AM - Post#2748884    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Paint is over rated.

The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
wagonman100 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 14086
wagonman100
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
10-18-18 07:34 PM - Post#2749021    
    In response to 55 Shaker

My suggestion would be to not flange the metal. It will make the panel stiffer, but it also gives a place for condensation to sit and cause corrosion. It may also leave a witness line in the panel. On a hot day the double thickness of metal will be affected differently than the single thickness and may become visible where the panels overlap through the bodywork. Cuts near body lines may make hammering and dollying a bit harder, but it keeps the panel more stable so that the cutting and welding will not cause warping as easily. Butt welding is usually preferred among restorers. If you weld about 3/16” at a time and skip around so as to not heat one area too much you can keep warping to a minimum. I do bodywork for a living and buttweld all panels. Be careful of building up heat while grinding your welds too.

Jay
Friends don’t let friends drive Fords.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon
1957 Cameo Carrier


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-22-18 05:56 AM - Post#2749232    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Squirt some clear epoxy on it. That will preserve the bare metal, and give you a filler to sand out any little scratches.

When you are ready to paint, sand it, and paint over it.

I have been looking for an old sticky on treating bare metal with acid, but I can't find it. Maybe someone will chime in. I used it on a couple of places, and it literally stops rust from happening to bare metal for a long time.

If my memory is correct, Ospho is the one that comes to mind. I just sprayed it on with a pump up sprayer, and let it dry.

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-22-18 05:59 AM - Post#2749233    
    In response to 60Impala1837

On the people asking if it is for sale? Bask in the glow. You are making new friends who are envious of your project.

If you really don't want to talk to people about it, simply put a NOT FOR SALE sign in the window.

Griff

if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
beagrizzly 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1932
beagrizzly
Age: 68
Loc: south texas
Reg: 08-04-12
10-24-18 07:04 AM - Post#2749409    
    In response to 60Impala1837

60Impala1937,

I found the rust thread, and copied it and will paste it here:
https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?t...

I actually printed it out,(organic, analog database) and keep it in my shop files so I can refer to it as needed.

Griff


ABOUT BARE METAL:
There are a number of ways to prepare bare steel prior to the application of your paint system. Please understand these are systems and this is the first step so it is important as a foundation. Pro’s tend to use etch primers or direct to metal filler primers due to the speed of the process. Time is money after all. As a hobbyist the following method is what I use. No method is necessarily better than the other and they are all correct and accepted methods. You can decide what works best for you.


PPG TWO STEP METAL TREATMENT TUTORIAL:
As hobbyist, we seldom have the time to complete a metal process (patch, weld grind) and spray protective primer expediently. PPG’s two step metal treatment will allow me to keep my car in bare steel for several months without it rusting. If a spot does re-rust I simply re-treat it until I am ready to spray expensive epoxy primer. Plus, PPG says it promotes “Superior Adhesion” combined with their DP line of epoxy primer which I like.

The example below is a side marker light I shaved on my 72. People come over and marvel at how flat it is and the first thing they do is rub it with their hands. Although it was treated when I finished it, the oil from their hands will make it start to rust again. I re-treated it and took some photos so I could document this process as it come up a lot in discussion.

The following procedure is an embellishment to the product instructions which should be read thoroughly prior to use. I have developed this procedure from using the products many times. To me, it makes the process faster and more efficient. I did the example below in approximately five minutes including product working times.

DX-579 Metal Cleaner:
Mechanically remove loose rust with scotch bright, sandpaper or a wire brush.
Spray DX-579 on the surface and work it in with a red scotch bright pad.
The P-Sheet recommends a mix ratio but I use it full strength at times.
Keep the surface wet with DX-579 until all the rust is gone.
Continue to scrub stubborn areas until clean.
This is an acid and it takes some time to work.
Rinse the surface with clear water while scrubbing it with a red scotch bright pad.
The DX-579 is a little slimy so the scrubbing helps ensure it is all gone.
Dry the part with paper towels and blow it dry with compressed air.

DX-520 Metal Conditioner:
After drying the part you may see orange (rust) streaks in the metal.
The DX-520 will remove the light rust streaks.
Spray DX-520 on the surface and scrub it in with a fresh scotch bright pad.
Just work it in initially and then put the scotch bright down for good.
Keep the surface wet with DX-520 until you see it turn a dull gray.
DX-520 deposits a microscopic zinc phosphate coating that builds up on the surface.
The longer you leave it on the darker it will get with the coating.
The coating acts as a sacrificial anode to prevent rust similar to galvanizing.
Don’t continue to scrub with scotch bright or you will remove the coating.
Rinse the part with sheeting clear water to remove the DX-520.
Immediately dry the part with a paper towel and blow dry.
Try not to touch the part with your bare hands after treating.

TIPS FOR USE:
With light surface rust you can skip the DX-579 step. The DX-520 will remove it.
You still need to clean the treated surface with wax and grease remover prior to primer.
The products are water soluble and can be applied with a pump spray bottle.
After 24 hours you should re-treat with DX-520 only prior to priming.
I don’t wear gloves but you probably should with the DX-579.
Oddly, I found the DX-579 will remove mill scale.
ABOUT BARE METAL:
There are a number of ways to prepare bare steel prior to the application of your paint system. Please understand these are systems and this is the first step so it is important as a foundation. Pro’s tend to use etch primers or direct to metal filler primers due to the speed of the process. Time is money after all. As a hobbyist the following method is what I use. No method is necessarily better than the other and they are all correct and accepted methods. You can decide what works best for you.




if you're gonna be a bear..................

1960 Biscayne (the 6T)
2005 Yukon XL
2007 GMC Sierra Classic 8.1
2009 Silverado
2011 Escalade ESV


 
60Impala1837 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 132
60Impala1837
Loc: Phoenix
Reg: 07-06-13
10-24-18 09:24 PM - Post#2749499    
    In response to 60Impala1837

Thanks for the link .... that really helps.


Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 

Ecklers AutoMotive

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