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Username Post: 61 Impala need rear brake wheel cyl        (Topic#352960)
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 142
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
09-12-18 11:00 AM - Post#2745972    

I need to replace the rear brake wheel cyl on my 1961 Impala 4dr. Anyone have recommendations where to buy so I get proper replacements? I've heard some wheel cyl have different internal diameters. Just want a quality part.
NAPA has some for 8'ish bucks.
Thanks again!



 




junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-12-18 11:34 AM - Post#2745975    
    In response to 61ohboy

Today, all wheel cylinders are made in China, and there is no difference in quality from one store that sells the part for more than any of the other stores. I learned this a while ago, when I needed a wheel cylinder for a 1963 Chrysler. The all had the same makers mark on them (Y), and the only difference was the price. They were garbage, and leaked, so I found a NOS pair by searching the part number on eBay. Took the NOS part apart, cleaned with brake cleaner, and lubricated the rubber parts with fresh brake assembly fluid, and reassembled. Hasn't leaked ever, unlike the Chinese crap that leaked overnight. I don't know if the newer product coming from China is better quality, but I don't like gambling on my life with a poor quality part. Find a NOS or a NORS made in USA part, and do what I did, for safety sake.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3691
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
09-12-18 11:55 AM - Post#2745976    
    In response to junky

The last wheel cylinders I bought was for my 56 Chevy. Got them at NAPA, don't remember the brand but they where made in the USA and never leaked. Being as your looking for 1961 cylinders it quite possible you can locate some NOS. Not that many new cars running 1961 wheel cylinders anymore.

Gary



 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-12-18 05:36 PM - Post#2745996    
    In response to Tri5man

Are the old ones pitted inside? If not, they're simple to rebuild. I use the acetylene torch to heat them so the bleeder and mounting screws don't twist off, clean them out with fine sandpaper and put a kit in. I like to rebuild and keep the original parts wherever possible.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
omarine 
Contributor
Posts: 178

Loc: San Diego
Reg: 06-29-15
09-13-18 06:14 AM - Post#2746030    
    In response to 61ohboy

I replaced all 4 of mine with Duralast from Auto zone.

That was over a year ago and the car is my daily driver, none have leaked.

The one thing was Autozone had them mislabeled, and I got two rear, both for the same side. So be sure to check that you get a right and left before leaving the store if you go this route.

cheers
oscar

61 Impala bubbletop, 283, 2bbl Rochester, generator, points and drum brakes- daily driver
'49 Harley Davidson FL - Panhead


 
Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1509

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
09-13-18 12:45 PM - Post#2746051    
    In response to Brian64SS

Just did this on a 55 Chrysler, I used a specific wheel cylinder hone.




 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-13-18 07:17 PM - Post#2746112    
    In response to omarine

Omarine,

Like you found at Autozone, Rock Auto lists a left and right rear w.c. but my original 4-door is home so I checked it. My memory was right - both sides are identical. There are two angled bosses on each one, one boss is threaded for the brake line and one is blank. The one on the driver's side has the threaded hole and brake line angled back and the passenger side has them angled forward, making them identical to each other. So the replacements could be the same instead of mirror images of each other.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-14-18 03:14 PM - Post#2746175    
    In response to Brian64SS

Just checked my 1962, and right and left are both the same also.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 142
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
09-14-18 05:48 PM - Post#2746184    
    In response to junky

Thank you all for the quick replies and info. Here's more info...

Someone has replaced the back wheel cyl before. Looks like they are china made units. I got under there and got the brake lines broke loose and the bleeders broke loose so they'd be ready when I got ready. I'm replacing the lines too and made sure those connections were broke loose that way I don't have to fight them when I get started.

I broke the bleeders loose because I hadn't made my mind up whether or not to replace the cylinders.

Get this...the bleeders weren't 3/8 and they weren't 10mm. I don't know what they were but I had to tap my 3/8 socket on them with a hammer then I was able to use my ratchet and break them loose. It was then that I decided to replace them so I'd know what I have on the brakes. And..I decided to check the new cylinders bleeder to see what size they were. I stuck a 3/8 deep well socket in my pocket and took off.

I went to NAPA and they showed me their china made cylinders. I said I had to check the bleeder with my socket to see if it fit because my old ones were an odd size. The 3/8's didn't fit the NAPA units and a 10mm was very loose so I passed on them.
Next I got to O'Reilly's and looked at their china made cylinders...same thing. 3/8 and 10mm, neither one fit. I left..
Now I got to AutoZone because it was closer then Advance. AZ cylinders looked to be a higher quality china cylinder. The bleeder was longer and while not a 3/8 size, it was a perfect 5/16 so I got them both. 20 bucks with tax for both of them.

Anyway, maybe I'm picky about the bleeder nut size but I figure if they aren't going to size it right, I'm not going to mess with the rest of their part.

I've got all the brake line connections loose on all three lines and rear hose. Got the new cylinders...now to get enough umph to get out there and do it. Like I said...it's hard for a fat man rolling around under the car in the driveway. The creeper helps a lot! I'll post again after I'm done and hopefully a picture or two too.



 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-14-18 05:56 PM - Post#2746186    
    In response to 61ohboy

Take only one side apart at a time, so you have the other side as a reference when you can't figure out what goes where. You didn't say why you are replacing the cylinders, but if the old ones leaked on your brake linings, then replace the shoes also, and wash the drums with dishwashing liquid, and blow them dry or dry with a towel.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-16-18 08:11 AM - Post#2746320    
    In response to junky

All sounds good.

FWIW, I put them back on the SS a long time ago the same way they are on the 4-door. Pass. side threaded fitting angled forward, drivers side angled back.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 142
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
09-18-18 05:25 PM - Post#2746600    
    In response to Brian64SS

Hi Junky, Brian,

The old wheel cyl were replaced probably not too long before I bought the car but when I was inspecting the rear pass side brake line, someone or something mashed the line. Kind of like they were wanting to restrict the fluid. Matter fact, it was mashed in two places and the coiled wire was mashed right along with it. When I cracked the bleeder open, what came out was thick and dark colored...I guess that's what very old brake fluid looks like. So I decided to replace the wheel cyl when I was replacing the brake lines so I'd know what I have.

So today I replaced the flex rubber line and all the metal lines and wheel cyl. The old cyl didn't leak, matter of fact, they looked dry. I don't know but there wasn't much fluid or pressure getting to the back wheels. Scary...

Tomorrow I'm going to "try" and replace the long brake line from the front to the back. I looked at it tonight to see if I could get the pre-bent line fished from front to back and looks like I'll have to do some bending. I'm trying to figure if it will be better to push the line front to back or back to front. Right now I'm thinking back to front...

And finally to everyone that takes pictures and posts them of the work you're doing...THANK YOU!

I was under the car today on my fat man creeper and was going to take a pic or two and post. It takes time to stop, snap a pic and post. so thanks to all who do from me. I enjoy the pictures.

So I had my cell phone in my pocket when I got on the creeper and later on when I got ready to take a pic, my phone was not in my pocket. It was on the blacktop and it's in a nice fake leather protector case...but...I think I rolled over it with the creeper. The screen didn't break and there was no damage to the phone but the faux leather case had some scrapes on it. The little lights still work on the phone but the screen is blank and black. Nothing...nada.... so lesson learned and I'm waiting on a replacement to arrive in the mail....

Oh and last...I got the new wheel cyl at Autozone. They looked up '61 Impala, etc...etc... and gave me part # 33304 and 33305. My old rear wheel cyl line up like Brian said; drive fitting to the rear and pass to the front. But when I got to the pass side, it was pointing to the rear, argh. So it seems the '61 requires two 33304 cyl. No wonder AZ only had 1 of them in stock and loads of the other one.



 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-18-18 06:30 PM - Post#2746609    
    In response to 61ohboy

Hey 61, sounds like a rough day. I broke my phone that way once too. But good you're straightening the car out. The work will be worth it in better braking and peace of mind. Do you think the old brake line could have been damaged by running something over? That's why I have dual master cylinders on my cars for now - you never know what's in the road.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-18-18 08:23 PM - Post#2746618    
    In response to Brian64SS

In over 60 years of wrenching on cars, I have never seen a brake line that was damaged by running over something, unless that something also did a whole lot of other damage also. For all those that espouse the use of a dual master cylinder, I suggest that the next time it you are going to be doing a brake fluid change, that you disconnect either the front or rear brakes, and take the car for a slow drive on a seldom used street, and try the brakes. You will be surprised at how little brakes on a single axle will be without the other. I know, because it happened to me with a '97 Ford Explorer, when the one brake line rusted out. If it were not for the working parking brake, I would have been in a slow speed crash. Properly maintaining your single master cylinder is less costly than installing a dual master cylinder.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-19-18 07:45 AM - Post#2746659    
    In response to junky

I keep my modern cars until they're pretty much worn out and have had brake lines go. Yes, there isn't much braking power left when it happens even with a dual m.c. but there is more than zero. I wouldn't discourage someone from putting a dual m.c. on any car that gets driven. Cost difference is practically nothing. Same with halogen headlights if its ever driven in the dark and radial tires.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-19-18 08:42 AM - Post#2746668    
    In response to Brian64SS

My point is that any braking system is only as good as the quality of the maintenance of that system.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 142
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
09-20-18 07:03 PM - Post#2746796    
    In response to junky

...well...I have one, maybe two leaks...bummer.
One leak is where the long pre-bent line connects to the flex hose from the frame to the rear end housing. I don't know if there is a problem with the new flex hose fitting or if I over tightened it and split the flair on the hard line. I've heard of that happening.

What is the recommend tightening on brake lines?

My nickname "Torque wrench" 40+ years ago was from over tightening everything. After you snug the fitting down, how much more should you turn it?

The other place I saw a leak is the driver side rear wheel. I don't know if that is from the new wheel cyl or if I over tightened the fitting and split it.

Anyway, I can deal with the driver wheel by replacing the short line or wheel cyl. But the end of the long brake line running front to back...I don't want to do that again so if I split the end of it, what's your thoughts on cutting the line back a foot or so and putting another fitting on the end and using a union to section in another piece of brake line. NOTE: this is not a coupler fitting which if I ask about it a war might break out... This is a union to join two brake line fittings. What's your thoughts on this?

I have also ordered another flex line for the frame to rear end in case the one I have is a dud. Dang I'm tired and want this to be over! If I was skinny this wouldn't be so bad or if I had a garage and a lift...but I'm a fat due on a creeper in the driveway and whew it's a job to raise the car up again and me getting up and down...you all may know what I'm talking about. And it's been HOT the past several days, in the 90's can you say wet with sweat! LOL ok my rant is over...

It is a slow leak. I drove the car after checking the leak and after an hour the master cyl was down between 1/3 and 1/2. (I was reeeealy careful..)



 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2723

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
09-20-18 07:29 PM - Post#2746801    
    In response to 61ohboy

I just start them finger tight, and then use a small flare nut wrench to tighten. Once there is any resistance, I usually give it a slight tweak and bleed the system. If I find a leak, I go back and tighten is some more, but rarely do I find a leak. Over tightening is as bad, if not worse then under tightening. Its a brake line, not a head bolt!

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 142
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
09-20-18 07:33 PM - Post#2746803    
    In response to junky

Thanks Junky...I'll tighten that way from now on. I over tightened every fitting... oh well, about everything I know I learned at the school of hard knocks.



 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1201
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
09-21-18 06:53 AM - Post#2746821    
    In response to 61ohboy

Hey 61, You don't want to use a compression fitting type union on a brake line. Only use flare type fittings. If you have to cut a line back, you have to put the flare nut fitting on first, pointed the right way, then double flare the end of the line. Tricky when under the car on jack stands on a really hot day but not a place to take a shortcut.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
turbo38s10 
"7th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1590
turbo38s10
Loc: Agawam,MA
Reg: 09-17-09
09-21-18 07:09 AM - Post#2746824    
    In response to Brian64SS

New ready made lines are cheap now(inlinetube.com) I would order a whole kit and do this job once and done. I would also use the stainless flex lines instead of rubber as long as your not concerned about being original, they last for ever.



Edited by turbo38s10 on 09-21-18 07:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 




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