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Username Post: Jag springs        (Topic#352750)
rickityfifty 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 89
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
08-28-18 04:21 PM - Post#2744723    

I've installed an XJ6 front end into my '52 Business coupe following the guide lines by Kiwi and others on here. All went well.
But I have just put in the 250 and T700 that I am going to use and found that the springs did not deflect at all. If I stand on the front of the chassis (I'm 185pounds) it almost moves, if I bounce up and down it moves a bit. Not sure how much, maybe an inch if I'm lucky.
According to Google the 216 weighs 630lb, the 250 weighs 440lb and the Jag 605lb, so I guess it is not surprising, but what do I do now?
With Jag springs you can't cut them due to the shape of the ends. Is heating a coil an option or do I really have to consult a spring maker for custom made springs?
All suggestions appreciated.

Rickity


1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck SOLD
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


Edited by rickityfifty on 08-28-18 04:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

Chevs of the 40s

rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13886
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
08-28-18 07:03 PM - Post#2744742    
    In response to rickityfifty

DO NOT heat the coils. All you'll get is a lower, rougher ride and possible a wreck when the coil spring breaks. There is another way. I don't know what it is yet, but somebody here does.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
drtyler 
Contributor
Posts: 525

Loc: Georgia
Reg: 05-06-10
08-28-18 09:04 PM - Post#2744746    
    In response to rickityfifty

Do you have high pressure gas shocks installed (Bilstein HD, for example)? I know in my cars with these shocks, it takes a good bit of effort to make them move, much more effort required than with my '54 Chevy with Monroe shocks.

Is the suspension height correct, or is it too high?



 
53Chevy 
Contributor
Posts: 275
53Chevy
Loc: Davenport, IA
Reg: 02-18-04
08-29-18 12:03 PM - Post#2744781    
    In response to rickityfifty

I have the XJ6 under my 53 Chevy with a 261 ci engine and 700r4 trans. With the stock springs I didn't like the stance, but it rode and drove great. At first I cut the springs 1 1/2 coils. But this made it ride like a lumber wagon. So then, I had a company in Kansas make me a new set of springs with the same compression rate but with a 2 in. drop in them. The stance is great and the ride is much better than the cut springs. What I did wrong this time was put a very stiff set shocks on it. I'm hoping that driving it will soften the ride up a little more. If not I'll go to a softer shock.



 
rickityfifty 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 89
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
08-29-18 04:04 PM - Post#2744797    
    In response to drtyler

Drtyler and 53Chevy,
at present it has no shocks at all. On the other hand it has no front sheet metal or fluids either.
I have spoken with local spring makers and another local guy who has used a few Jag crossmembers under various rods and they have said not to do anything until everything is back on it again.
I can get springs that are made for SBC coversion of an XJ6 that are both shorter and softer than the originals. They might do the job but I won't make the decision yet.
Thanks for your input.
Rickity

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck SOLD
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1062
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
08-30-18 09:39 AM - Post#2744860    
    In response to 53Chevy

I agree those Jag shocks take about 50 pounds to compress. There are a couple of different ways to raise or lower the front and make it ride softer or harder by removing some of the jag spring shims or adding some. 1/4" of shim under the spring adds 3/4" to the ride height and stiffens the spring. The front sheet metal will drop the front a lot.



 
rickityfifty 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 89
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
08-30-18 03:58 PM - Post#2744884    
    In response to cbmkr56

"The front sheet metal will drop the front a lot."


Thanks for saying that cabinetmaker. I was hoping that was the case but didn't know whether to believe it or not.

1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck SOLD
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4328
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
09-13-18 04:37 PM - Post#2746076    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickety. By using the later 250 six you have shaved a couple of hundred pounds off the nose. Sure your trans will be heavier but that's about a third of the engine weight gone, so even if you stayed with the stock front end it would still be nose high.

The redone springs for the Jag to suit the small block are probably the best fix, but wait until you have all the front clip and a full radiator in place to get a baseline.

Some pictures would be great. Do you have any supplier info on those V8 jag springs?

Plan "B" may be to check the weight of the 292.
Its a tall deck version of the 250 and heavier. Just one engine mount is different from 230/250.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


 
rickityfifty 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Memebr
Posts: 89
rickityfifty
Loc: south australia
Reg: 10-08-14
09-14-18 04:35 PM - Post#2746177    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Hi Kiwi,

I plan to put up some pictures when I've finished messing around with the steering shaft and universals, and have everything set.

The springs are from a friend who bought them for a Willys project and found he did not need them.
I think they are "KING" brand. Lovells do them as well, and there are some others advertised on ebay that are 'heavier rate' to 'improve' handling. My car will be a cruiser, not a race car, so the lighter wire guage will suit me better.
I am committed to the 250 now, having done a bit of work to it. If I could have found a 292 when I was looking I would have gone that way. Nothing succeeds like cubic inches.


1952 Chevy Business Coupe
1967 Chevy C10 Panel Truck SOLD
2005 Holden Rodeo Pickup (Isuzu)
1923 Tbucket SOLD


Edited by rickityfifty on 09-14-18 04:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4328
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
09-16-18 08:29 AM - Post#2746311    
    In response to rickityfifty

Hi Rickety, The 292 is supposed to be 530lbs dry so would getting up to SBC weight which normally sits OK with stock Jag springs. Not obviously lowered but actually functional road car stance.

If your King springs are a finer diameter wire they would normally be a lower pound/inch rating.
Anything that is supposed to stiffen the front end will usually be a higher pound/inch rating and something you would want to steer clear of.

Unfortunately, spring making is a dark art and you can do pages of calculations and get nowhere close. I have calculated out a car to need 140lbs/" and in practice, it worked best with 110lbs/"

Ideally, you want someone to wind you up some progressive springs for the Jag, but they are really expensive and it's probably cheaper to sell your 250 and buy a 292 and rebuild that.

I have never done it but you can set a jag front up into the frame. In this case, it is a lot of work as they are both top hat sections.
On a Pickup chassis, you can just notch and box the "C" section. The other thing you need to be aware of is as the Jag has a rear rack how much sump clearance you may have could interfere with being able to set the Jag member up higher to bring the nose down.

It depends on your certification rules but here a chassis kick up would get that problem resolved.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no readily available dropped spindles for Jags. They were made somewhere in Europe but they were really high dollar race parts.

Cheers Kiwi



48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 09-16-18 08:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

Chevs of the 40s

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