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Username Post: Is it the starter?        (Topic#352394)
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-08-18 01:05 PM - Post#2742356    

Parked my '50 in the garage in November; was running good at that time. Started it in Jan & Feb, let it warm up. It sat until end of April, and then ran very rough. While doing diagnosis, cranked starter # of times without engine always starting. Determined carb was leaking - rebuilt it in May; drove it up/down the driveway and all seemed good again.

3 weeks ago took it out on the road first time since Nov; went 4 miles to the gas station, and it ended up badly. Was running fine until I was at the station, where it died as I was pulling in. Put a few gallons in, cranked it a couple times, no start. 3rd time, nothing but a "clunk." Towed home. Battery good. Ever since, nothing but the "clunk." Solenoid engaging/disengaging. My hunch is the starter is stuck - maybe all that cranking earlier in the year damaged it? But would bad starter cause car to die while on road?

Engine is '55 236 Powerglide. Converted to 12V before I got car 10 years ago. I can't see part # on starter, and haven't removed it yet but suspect starter is still 6V (which I've read is Ok even with a 12V system.

So question is, does this sound like the starter? I don't want to remove it until I check other suspicions any of you might have. If it is the starter, I'm hoping it can be rebuilt (new brushes, etc) rather than replacing it.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 

Shepherd 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1370

Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
08-08-18 02:05 PM - Post#2742365    
    In response to beguz50

First, pull the plugs and see if you can turn the engine over by hand.



 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-08-18 03:42 PM - Post#2742374    
    In response to Shepherd

That was one of the first things I tried a couple weeks ago. No, could not turn it over. Maybe I should try again, a little harder?

edited response: see 8/9 answer -- the correct answer is Yes, it does turn over.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


Edited by beguz50 on 08-09-18 12:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
RAM_51 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4912
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-08-18 06:57 PM - Post#2742394    
    In response to beguz50

  • beguz50 Said:
No, could not turn it over.


By hand, plugs out, AND in neutral?


1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-08-18 07:05 PM - Post#2742396    
    In response to RAM_51

  • RAM_51 Said:
  • beguz50 Said:
No, could not turn it over.


By hand, plugs out, AND in neutral?



Yes, yanking on the fan belt and pulleys best I could.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
RAM_51 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4912
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-08-18 07:09 PM - Post#2742397    
    In response to beguz50

Best to put pressure down on the fan belt between the water pump pulley and generator / alternator pulley then pull on one of the fan blades.

1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-08-18 07:25 PM - Post#2742401    
    In response to RAM_51

  • RAM_51 Said:
Best to put pressure down on the fan belt between the water pump pulley and generator / alternator pulley then pull on one of the fan blades.



Will give it a try tomorrow.

I guess I know what you're getting at but I'm not thinking (hoping!) any internal engine problems because it was running one minute and then sputtered a few seconds and then just shut off – – no bangs, pops or other noises, smoke, smells, etc.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
RAM_51 
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4912
RAM_51
Loc: Yakima, WA. USA
Reg: 12-28-02
08-08-18 07:50 PM - Post#2742403    
    In response to beguz50

I think what Shepard was doing [correct me if I'm wrong], was trying to begin absolutely at square one.

1951 Fleetline
'51 Fleetline DeLuxe 2 DOOR SEDAN (Fathom Green)
'51 Styleline Special BUSINESS COUPE (Shadow Gray)
'53 6500 Dump Bed (Oxidized Red)
'50 Styleline DeLuxe 4 DOOR SEDAN (Mist Green)


 
50_Fastback 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 96
50_Fastback
Loc: California Central Coast
Reg: 09-08-14
08-08-18 09:15 PM - Post#2742425    
    In response to RAM_51

May need someone to verify this but I think you can put the car in gear and rock it from side to side to free up a jammed starter.

Never tried this but it should work. To turn over the motor you could jack up the rear of car, put it in 3rd and spin the rear tires by hand.

Sputtering and dying pulling into the gas station may due to some junk in your fuel line, funky fuel pump or sticking float.

Just thinkin' out loud.
Ron


Ron Starkey

Life's full of risks..........take one!

'50 Fleetline 350/350, Nova Rear end, Mustang II clip

2005 Harley Road Glide


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-09-18 11:30 AM - Post#2742487    
    In response to beguz50

  • beguz50 Said:
  • RAM_51 Said:
Best to put pressure down on the fan belt between the water pump pulley and generator / alternator pulley then pull on one of the fan blades.



Will give it a try tomorrow.

I guess I know what you're getting at but I'm not thinking (hoping!) any internal engine problems because it was running one minute and then sputtered a few seconds and then just shut off – – no bangs, pops or other noises, smoke, smells, etc.



A little pressure on the belt, as suggested, and the engine turns over easily.


50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-09-18 11:49 AM - Post#2742488    
    In response to 50_Fastback

  • 50_Fastback Said:
May need someone to verify this but I think you can put the car in gear and rock it from side to side to free up a jammed starter.

Never tried this but it should work. To turn over the motor you could jack up the rear of car, put it in 3rd and spin the rear tires by hand.

Sputtering and dying pulling into the gas station may due to some junk in your fuel line, funky fuel pump or sticking float.

Just thinkin' out loud.
Ron




When it died at the gas station, a fuel problem was my first hunch. I hoped it had just run out of gas (yeah, dumb me, but it had at least 3 gal in the tank; it was downhill before the station so maybe it was too low and/or picked up some junk). Junk/pump/carb may still turn out to be the reason it died, but it doesn't explain why the starter won't turn the engine over at all.

Tried the rocking side-to-side idea. Did that 2 times for about 10 seconds each time. It seemed like the engine cranked just a tiny bit (maybe a 1/2 second) after doing that. Better than no movement. Is this a clue?


50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


Edited by beguz50 on 08-09-18 12:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
2blu52 
"17th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 18518
2blu52
Age: 85
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
08-09-18 02:01 PM - Post#2742513    
    In response to beguz50

Why not just pull the starter and bench test it. Should take all of 20 minutes.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
DanD1950 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 857
DanD1950
Loc: London Ont. Canada
Reg: 10-16-11
08-10-18 06:10 AM - Post#2742566    
    In response to 2blu52

  • Quote:
it was downhill before the station so maybe it was too low and/or picked up some junk



Likely has nothing to do with the stall; unless the tank was empty.
I hear so many people that think, if they run their fuel tank down; they'll suck up crap from the bottom.
The fuel line pick up tube inside the tank, is on the bottom of the tank; so the fuel is always being sucked from the bottom. If water or dirt somehow is introduced into the tank; you won't have to wait for the tank to be empty to feel its affects.

Dan.

50 Styleline Deluxe, 2 Door Sedan, Was a 216cu", Three Speed Manual. She now has a 4.8Lt V8 LR4 injected engine, 4L60E 4 speed automatic, 10 bolt diff 342 gear with an Eaton C80 Locker



 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-10-18 07:59 AM - Post#2742584    
    In response to 2blu52

  • 2blu52 Said:
Why not just pull the starter and bench test it. Should take all of 20 minutes.



If only I could do this so quickly. If there are no other theories that I should check, then yeah, the starter is coming out. Before doing that, I was looking for advice about whether the starter is a) definitely, b) likely, c) unlikely or d) definitely not the problem. I'm still unsure what the connection is between the engine shutting off suddenly and a failing starter .... or if these were just independent unrelated events that happened at the same time.

If it has to be rebuilt, I see that COT40's has a kit.


50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-10-18 08:03 AM - Post#2742585    
    In response to DanD1950

  • DanD1950 Said:
  • Quote:
it was downhill before the station so maybe it was too low and/or picked up some junk



Likely has nothing to do with the stall; unless the tank was empty.

Dan.



Thanks Dan. It was low but not empty. If there's a fuel problem (in addition to the starter), I'll focus on carb and fuel pump.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
dsacton 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1030
dsacton
Loc: Boulder, CO
Reg: 11-01-11
08-10-18 01:38 PM - Post#2742624    
    In response to beguz50

The solenoid can get dirty and fail to engage the power to the starter. It's pretty easy to remove and clean; easier than taking out the starter. I'd check to see if the starter is getting power first.

Scott Acton
1954 Chevy Bel Air 2-door
http://www.my54chevy.com


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-11-18 11:17 AM - Post#2742720    
    In response to dsacton

  • dsacton Said:
The solenoid can get dirty and fail to engage the power to the starter. It's pretty easy to remove and clean; easier than taking out the starter. I'd check to see if the starter is getting power first.



Thx, good advice, will check solenoid first.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27675
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-11-18 11:41 AM - Post#2742724    
    In response to beguz50

There are a couple of tests you can run before you remove the solenoid or starter. These assume that the battery and its cable connections are good.
First, make sure the trans is in neutral if manual or park if automatic.

1. Use a heavy screwdriver to jump the battery cable stud on the solenoid to the small stud terminal. If the solenoid pulls in and the starter cranks the engine, both are good. If the solenoid doesn't pull in, remove and disassemble it for inspection. If the solenoid pulls in, but the starter doesn't crank, go to test 2.

2. Use the screwdriver to jump the two large studs on the solenoid. If the starter spins now, the solenoid needs to be disassembled and the internal contacts inspected. If the starter doesn't spin, remove it and disassemble for inspection.

If any of the above needs clarification, please feel free to ask about whatever isn't clear.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
beguz50 
Contributor
Posts: 130
beguz50
Loc: Southern Indiana
Reg: 07-12-07
08-11-18 01:57 PM - Post#2742743    
    In response to raycow

#1, solenoid pulls in, starter doesn't crank. #2, starter doesn't spin (just a good puff of smoke off the small stud). Will try to remove and inspect next week. Thx, Ray.

50 Styleline Deluxe
"I want to die young at a ripe old age." - Ashley Montagu
Bob G.


 

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