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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: Ideas and Drawbacks        (Topic#351483)
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-09-18 05:14 AM - Post#2736372    

I'm getting back into independent adjusting. I look at wrecked cars including vintage cars. I always wanted a 'typical' company car from the early to mid 1960's. This would be a white 4-door.


I located a rusty '63 Impala Sport Sedan about 140 miles north of home. One of my requirements was having a lot of support for the car. New or used, just about every part for this car is easily attainable.


I won't lie. I like modern equipment. I know the car has a 327, powerglide and A/C. The car is complete. The idea was to put in a 5.3L LS engine, a 4L65E or a 6L80E trans, 4 wheel discs, an upgraded suspension, power windows, cruise, a vintage air system...even a vintage looking radio with Bluetooth. This would be an everyday driver. I put roughly 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year on a car.


None of this is stuff is stuff that hasn't been done before. I will admit I'm a Mopar guy. As Chevy's go, are there any drawbacks to this plan? Is there anything mentioned that would make the car LESS reliable. Is there anything mentioned that would make me have reengineer the basic car or is this straight bolt-on stuff? I'd spend $40K on a new Charger. Why not spend $40K on the Impala? Clue me in...am I missing anything here?



Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


Edited by Swifster on 06-09-18 05:15 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13866
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
06-09-18 06:28 AM - Post#2736376    
    In response to Swifster

The main drawback I can see is... these old babies are only original once, and a complete '63 Impala, with AC is a rare car. Why not restore it instead?

Five... ten years down the road it will be worth more restored than a resto-mod. A 327 and PG were very dependable back in the day, and are still dependable. Although I'd put an electronic ignition in it if I were doing it, and maybe front discs.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3636
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
06-09-18 06:47 AM - Post#2736380    
    In response to rrausch

Don't even think about buying a rust bucket and restoring it for an investment. You'll never complete a full restoration for 40K. A decent paint job alone is over 10K, LS engine and transmission swap 15-20K, Interior 6-8K, rust repair 10-15K, etc, etc. Just do the math. The chrome plating on my 63 Impala nut & bolt frame off restoration was almost 8K alone. My 63 has more then double the 40K your talking about into it and I'll take $42,500 for it with less then 500 miles on it. So much for an investment.

If your going to restore it for it for the fun of the hobby thats a different story.

Gary





 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-09-18 08:10 AM - Post#2736391    
    In response to Tri5man

This is neither an investment or a fun of the hobby project. In the end, it will be a tool for business and a tax write-off. The company name will be on the doors. I'm mechanically inclined, and can do everything but the body work myself. I may buy this car for parts. Doors, deck lids and quarters I can get used. My concern are the rocker panels and the floor pans.

I can rebuild a junk yard 5.3L or buy a reman short block. I can rebuild a 4L60/5E. I can rebuild the rear end. I'm not putting air ride in the thing. Are there things on these cars made of unobtainium?

In the end, if the body is too far gone, I can get I Bel Air or another Impala. I'm looking for pros and cons. What can be done and what can not be done.

Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


Edited by Swifster on 06-09-18 08:11 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3636
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
06-09-18 08:20 AM - Post#2736394    
    In response to Swifster

Yes there are things such as rust repair, body work and paint which is unobtainium to accomplish and the breaking point price wise and time wise for novices who have to pay others to get this type of work done. Your biggest chore will be finding someone to do all this work.

Even if you are the mechanic you say you are its still going to take years to resurect a rust bucket. Trust me when I tell you its cheaper to buy then build.

If a restoration was an easy thing to do everyone would do it. My 63 Impala took 8 years to complete a nut & bolt frame off restoration and it wasnt my first rodeo. I've been there done that and know what I'm talking about. You couldn't buy all the parts you'd need for a complete restoration for 40K. If it were me I'd buy a Prius to use as a company car for the years it will take to finish your restoration.

Wish you luck in your restoration and please keep us posted on your progress.

Gary



 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1176
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
06-09-18 01:38 PM - Post#2736425    
    In response to Tri5man

It depends a whole lot on what you mean by a rusty car. If it has a little rust here and there but the frame is good, it's probably a good one to take on. Tap on the sides and bottom of the frame with a screwdriver handle from the firewall back to the "X" and from the rear diff. area back. You'll hear a soft spot if there is one. If the floor area holding the B pillar in place on each side is weak, pass on the car.

4-door hardtops are a great style - doors make it easy to use but they look like coupes with the windows down. Rotisserie resto's are great and popular but aren't always needed for a 100% safe, reliable and good looking car. Your $40k could go a long way if the car doesn't have to be better than new. An $8k paint job would probably be wasted on a daily driver, so plenty of places like that to save your money.

I wouldn't mind if my white '64 sport sedan had a 327 and a/c. I added shoulder belts to the front to hopefully to keep my face off the steering wheel. I put the driver's one in with the shoulder belt over the right shoulder and down to the floor so it wouldn't just slide around the end of the seat and not do anything in an accident. Without airbags, shoulder belts would be good for a car you plan to drive a lot in modern traffic. Mine is a rust-free car and I'm a purist so will keep the 283, Powerglide, drum brakes, etc, but I plan to add a/c and maybe power windows, which I suspect will only increase it's value.

You have a great plan. If I had a business, a '64 wagon would be my company car. I suggest you do it.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
61ohboy 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 135
61ohboy
Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 04-12-14
06-09-18 03:19 PM - Post#2736436    
    In response to Swifster

I have a '61 Impala 4 door, white... I'm upside down in it and still have a lot of things needing done to the car. But it is drive-able. I'd sell it for 25... but no one gonna to pay that

I'm 63 and don't want to wait 2, 3, 4 or more years to enjoy the car. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy a car that was "ready to go". And...I would not buy a 4 door unless I had a parts car because there are parts for a 4 door that you are not going to find or not going to find easily.

If the car you plan on having is going to be an business expense, then it shouldn't matter if you build it or buy it ready to drive. I vote for "ready to drive" if I could do it over again. There's enough tinkering and mechanic'in work to do along the way to keep it running great to satisfy my wrench'in.

Back in '82 I had a '67 Impala two door fastback with 327 double hump heads and pg. I'm still beating myself up for selling that back in '84.

Good luck whatever you chose and post some pics




 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-09-18 04:28 PM - Post#2736440    
    In response to Swifster

  • Swifster Said:
I'm getting back into independent adjusting. I look at wrecked cars including vintage cars. I always wanted a 'typical' company car from the early to mid 1960's. This would be a white 4-door.


I located a rusty '63 Impala Sport Sedan about 140 miles north of home. One of my requirements was having a lot of support for the car. New or used, just about every part for this car is easily attainable.


I won't lie. I like modern equipment. I know the car has a 327, powerglide and A/C. The car is complete. The idea was to put in a 5.3L LS engine, a 4L65E or a 6L80E trans, 4 wheel discs, an upgraded suspension, power windows, cruise, a vintage air system...even a vintage looking radio with Bluetooth. This would be an everyday driver. I put roughly 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year on a car.


None of this is stuff is stuff that hasn't been done before. I will admit I'm a Mopar guy. As Chevy's go, are there any drawbacks to this plan? Is there anything mentioned that would make the car LESS reliable. Is there anything mentioned that would make me have reengineer the basic car or is this straight bolt-on stuff? I'd spend $40K on a new Charger. Why not spend $40K on the Impala? Clue me in...am I missing anything here?





When you say: " I'd spend $40K on a new Charger. Why not spend $40K on the Impala?"; its appears you assume $40k is sufficient to buy, build, restore, and heavily modify a 'rusty' '63 Impala into the 'daily driver' you describe. With the mods you are suggesting, and the car you are starting with, a budget closer to $80k (or more) would be more realistic (and that's if you can find a COMPETENT shop to do the work). Now IF there is little to no labor cost (you do all the work yourself), and IF you are experienced in doing this work, you may be able to put something on the road within your $40k estimate .

CAN a '63 be built as you seek? Yes. The questions become; how much are you willing to spend? and what is your tolerance for risk (cost growth)?

And, when you were finished, the new Charger will be more reliable, safer, faster than the '63 Chevy ever could be.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete



 
Chevrobert 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3512

Loc: Braintree, Ma. USA
Reg: 06-14-08
06-09-18 04:58 PM - Post#2736444    
    In response to Swifster

If I was thinking of doing what you are,
I might also consider transplanting a whatever onto a modern frame and chassis.
A guy up here put an AMX body on a '08 GTO/HOLDEN,
it is unique, I must say.
I see your in Bradenton?
Do you go to?

http://www.bradentonmotorsports.com/

I'm on their mailing list and keep meaning to check it out,
but NEVER seem to work it into my schedule when I visit.
Good Luck.


Bob
'64 Impala SS
'77 Pontiac Ventura SJ
'85 Lincoln Town Car
Ain't to proud to think out loud.


 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-09-18 06:37 PM - Post#2736446    
    In response to Chevrobert

Guys, what I'm looking for is past experience. This is a $1500 car. It doesn't drive and it has typical (a lot) Florida rust. It needs everything, and I'm guessing that includes the frame. I've made a few contacts to see about a replacement.

I know how to source parts. I have friends in low places including GM. I'm more concerned with what works together on these cars. A 5.3L will drop in. I'm not putting 600HP thru it. With LS6 heads and cam, it'll make an easy 400 HP. Can I put this thru a 6L80 or am I better off with a 4L60E. This is the stuff I want to know.

I can run the factory A/C on 134a with a condenser change. But how hard is it to find (and how expensive) 55 year old A/C parts verses just getting a complete kit from Vintage Air.

I plan on keeping the 14" wheels on the car and factory wheel covers and white walls. But I want to be able to stop. So what I'm looking for is suggestions on brakes that don't include reusing the front drums.

And yes, I was looking at installing six sets of seat belts in a stock looking interior.

I don't plan on slamming this thing to the ground. Better springs and shocks maybe, but no air ride or lowered spindles.

I don't think I'm reinventing the wheel here. But in this type of rebuild, I'm looking to find out what works and what doesn't.

In the end, it should look like a stock 1963 Impala Sport Sedan inside and out (unless you open the hood or look under the car).

It's not my first rodeo. It's not my first project. But this is my first GM project. It was chosen because everything under the sun is available for it. Everyone makes parts for these. If I wreck it on I-4 during rush hour, can I fix it?

What I want to know is what works in harmony with the rest of the car? What can I do to modernize the car without changing the character of the car. If you own a stock Impala, what drives you crazy about it? What would you improve if you could. What are lessons learned about modifications that were done?


Again, this car will get driven approximately 30,000 miles a year thru 16 Florida counties.

This is an LS engine in a vintage C-10



P.S., Chevrobert, I'm more of a road race guy. I used to race at Waterford Hills in Michigan before moving to Florida. Bradenton is just down the road from me, but I have yet to make a visit. But I've been to Sebring about a dozen times.



Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


Edited by Swifster on 06-09-18 06:47 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13866
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
06-09-18 08:58 PM - Post#2736460    
    In response to Swifster

It sounds like you really want to do this, so just go for it and the hell with what everybody thinks. This isn't your first rodeo, and as you say, most everything is available. You might post some pictures of the car if you are able.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 6816
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
06-10-18 05:06 AM - Post#2736479    
    In response to rrausch

I like your idea and would suggest:

1. Find a real solid body first. A $5-10,000 solid car will save you a ton of time and money and if it has a good drivetrain, it can be sold for some money. If it already has a nice body and paint, that will save you $30,000 easy over a car needing floor, trunk, rocker, frame, door, trunk lid, hood, rust work and chrome work. $30,000 would just be a low number depending on what needs work and then you would also save a lot of time.
2. I'd do a 5 speed with a clutch, but if you want an auto, a 700R4 can be easily built to handle 400HP, done all the time so easy to do and find parts for.
3. Wheels- go 15 inch, way easier to find more tire sizes than a 14 inch, plus way easier to get off the shelf disk brakes for a 15 inch than a 14 inch stock rim. As time goes on, 14 inch anything is hard to find and getting harder.
4. Consider a 4 door post car.
5. Do Vintage air, off the shelf and again, easy to get parts for.
6. These cars have a weak rear end, you may eventually need to add posi or do a rearend upgrade depending on how hard you are on the drivetrain. Both have readily available parts.
7. Good choice, these Chevies are easy to find most parts for because in these years GM sold millions of vehicles each year and didn't change out the mechanical parts every year, like Ford and Chrysler did in those years and they all do now. For a modern car, you need a VIN to order parts because they make so many changes to them.

Don


63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


Edited by DonSSDD on 06-10-18 05:13 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SS540 
Contributor
Posts: 687
SS540
Loc: Down in Texas
Reg: 03-29-03
06-10-18 05:20 AM - Post#2736481    
    In response to Swifster

A 6L80e trans is larger than a 4 series and will require enlarging the trans tunnel. I put a 4L65e in my 59 restomod for that reason. I notched the front crossmember for oil pan clearance to get the front of the LS3 down and somewhat level. Some may argue that notching the crossmember is not necessary. Engine and trans mounts and exhaust manifolds/headers for LS conversions were not very plentiful when I started my project in 2012. They probably are now.

Wayne & Sherri Scott
59 Biscuit LS3 Restomod


 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-10-18 08:18 AM - Post#2736506    
    In response to SS540

Thanks guys. This is what I was looking for. If I get the car and find it's too far gone, a sedan wouldn't be ruled out. While I really like the hardtop and would be willing to pay a price to fix it, I could deal with a Bel Air.

As I mentioned, I'm checking on some used parts before making decision on this car. I'm still looking at getting a bare frame and starting the car from ground up.



Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


 
kingkreeton 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1164
kingkreeton
Loc: Houston TX
Reg: 04-15-11
06-10-18 08:48 AM - Post#2736510    
    In response to DonSSDD

  • DonSSDD Said:


1. Find a real solid body first. A $5-10,000 solid car will save you a ton of time and money and if it has a good drivetrain, it can be sold for some money. If it already has a nice body and paint, that will save you $30,000 easy over a car needing floor, trunk, rocker, frame, door, trunk lid, hood, rust work and chrome work. $30,000 would just be a low number depending on what needs work and then you would also save a lot of time.




X2

Shane
64 Impala SS: 350 4 speed

"Let's go Reds"


 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3636
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
06-10-18 11:44 AM - Post#2736518    
    In response to kingkreeton

Swifster, The biggest mistake a Newbie to our hobby can make is not listening to those who know. Mentioning starting with a bare frame ( who knows if the frame on the car you buy needs a frame) and using 14" wheels shows a lack of experience and knowledge.

If the car is to be written off as a business expense, why do you want to spend years on a build instead of buying a running driving car?

Gary



 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-10-18 07:15 PM - Post#2736543    
    In response to Tri5man

  • Tri5man Said:
Swifster, The biggest mistake a Newbie to our hobby can make is not listening to those who know. Mentioning starting with a bare frame ( who knows if the frame on the car you buy needs a frame) and using 14" wheels shows a lack of experience and knowledge.

If the car is to be written off as a business expense, why do you want to spend years on a build instead of buying a running driving car?

Gary



Gary, frames from a salvage yard are cheap. The ONLY part on the chassis I plan on keeping is the rear end. And if the car doesn't have 3.55's in it, it may not stay either. I'm not keeping the 327, the Powerglide, the original steering, the suspension, the radiator, A/C condenser, the fuel tank or anything else attached to the frame. Why not have a rolling chassis ready to swap when the body is ready?

What is wrong with 14" wheels? The car came with 14" wheels. I'm planning on 7" wide wheels. These are the station wagon wheels. There are 4 wheel disc brake kits that fit under the 14" factory wheels. And the full size wheel covers will fit on 14" wheels. The tires will most likely be P215/75R14 white walls. I'm not building a hot rod. The car is being built for modern roads and modern traffic.

The car I'm looking at is RUSTY. It won't be my first (or second) rusty starting point. IF it gets torn down and my body man and I deem the car to far gone, I'll look for another and strip this one down for parts (like the A/C system). Or, I'll look for a clean 4-door sedan and cut out the structural parts to swap over. I've done this before on a Studebaker. I've ordered a parts manual and an assembly guide. We'll see what works.

As for not listening, on the contrary. Based on this thread, I'm going with the 4L65E instead of the 6L80.


Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


Edited by Swifster on 06-10-18 07:23 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tri5man 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3636
Tri5man
Loc: Possums Crotch, KY
Reg: 06-26-07
06-11-18 01:43 AM - Post#2736568    
    In response to Swifster

Well at least now we know your going to do a frame off restoration. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Gary



 
18htan 
Poster
Posts: 44
18htan
Loc: Melbourne
Reg: 05-21-10
06-12-18 08:00 PM - Post#2736778    
    In response to SS540

  • SS540 Said:
A 6L80e trans is larger than a 4 series and will require enlarging the trans tunnel. I put a 4L65e in my 59 restomod for that reason.



I have a 6L80 going into my 63 Belair. Had to massage the lip where the firewall and the tunnel meet and that was all I did.

Used the Muscle Rods cross member and its all bolted in.



Cheers
Nate

Currently Rebuilding 63 Aussie Right Hand Drive Bel Air


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27658
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
06-14-18 10:30 AM - Post#2736958    
    In response to Swifster

  • Swifster Said:
.....There are 4 wheel disc brake kits that fit under the 14" factory wheels. And the full size wheel covers will fit on 14" wheels. The tires will most likely be P215/75R14 white walls. I'm not building a hot rod. The car is being built for modern roads and modern traffic.....


For a car the size and weight of a 63 Impala, I wouldn't run any disc brakes with rotors smaller than the 11" size used on Chevelles and Camaros. These brakes will fit inside 14" disc brake wheels, but not inside stock 63 14" wheels. Since you will be running full wheel covers, your wheels won't have to be stock because nobody except maybe a show judge will be able to tell what kind of wheels you have.

Just so you know, those are the brakes I have on my 60 with a 348. It very likely weighs at least as much as a 63 with an LS.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-14-18 05:14 PM - Post#2736987    
    In response to raycow

Ray, what brake kit and what wheels are you using? And you are correct...this is not a restoration. Want it to look stock but doesn't have to be stock.

Thanks!

Tom

Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-15-18 06:23 AM - Post#2737014    
    In response to Swifster

  • Swifster Said:
Ray, what brake kit and what wheels are you using? And you are correct...this is not a restoration. Want it to look stock but doesn't have to be stock.

Thanks!

Tom




Tom,

The last time I had wheel covers I just took them off a '63 convertible I bought in march of '68.

I have read (can not verify) that the wheel covers for the '63 MAY not secure properly to the later wheels. You may wish to check that out.

Also (strictly my opinion) I would stick with the drum brakes rather than switch to the Camaro size disc. The drums were designed for your car's weight and configuration. The Camaro is significantly lighter. I kept the drums on my current '63 convertible and they are just fine. I drive the car anywhere. I don't race, nor do I do any mountain driving, nor trailer pulling so I'm not concerned about fade from repeated hard breaking, or 'riding'. Just offered as an alternative.

Pete



Edited by japete92 on 06-15-18 06:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27658
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
06-15-18 12:50 PM - Post#2737055    
    In response to Swifster

Tom, I didn't use a kit. My time is a lot cheaper than my money, so I did the job mainly with salvage yard parts. I turned the rotors and traded in the MC and calipers as cores for rebuilt units. The only parts I bought new were hoses because I didn't want to take a chance with used ones, pads, and the caliper mounting brackets, because those are aftermarket-only parts. The wheels were salvage yard, too. but I did check them first to make sure the wheel covers would mount securely.

Pete is semi-correct about the Chevelle/Camaro discs. Chevy didn't use them on the B-body cars. Factory discs on those were 12". However, the 12" rotors absolutely won't fit into anything smaller than 15" disc brake wheels.

I don't race my car, but I built it to be a driver, and I do drive on mountain roads from time to time. IMO, the braking performance with the Camaro discs is definitely better than it was with the stock drums, and I have never encountered any fade since I did the swap.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-15-18 07:32 PM - Post#2737099    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
Tom, I didn't use a kit. My time is a lot cheaper than my money, so I did the job mainly with salvage yard parts. I turned the rotors and traded in the MC and calipers as cores for rebuilt units. The only parts I bought new were hoses because I didn't want to take a chance with used ones, pads, and the caliper mounting brackets, because those are aftermarket-only parts. The wheels were salvage yard, too. but I did check them first to make sure the wheel covers would mount securely.

Pete is semi-correct about the Chevelle/Camaro discs. Chevy didn't use them on the B-body cars. Factory discs on those were 12". However, the 12" rotors absolutely won't fit into anything smaller than 15" disc brake wheels.

I don't race my car, but I built it to be a driver, and I do drive on mountain roads from time to time. IMO, the braking performance with the Camaro discs is definitely better than it was with the stock drums, and I have never encountered any fade since I did the swap.

Ray



Ray,

Just curious; why only 'semi-correct'?

The GM designers utilized the larger rotors on the heavier full size car. And, my opinion/preference are not 'fact' and by definition can not be incorrect. Others may have differing ones, and those can not be incorrect also.

Just funnin' with you a little.

I was taught to always know where my 'out' was so I could steer out of 'trouble'. Along with that I was also taught how to modulate the brakes to keep them from locking up. I also had manual transmissions; so I was down shifting, steering, and braking under control, to get out of jams. I have not locked up any brakes (all drums, disc /drums, all disc) in over 50 years. I just wouldn't change to discs from drums because (to me) it is an unnecessary expense because of how and where I drive.

Tom,

My only intent is to inform. If you're content with the 'small' rotors w/the 14" wheels (Ray is with his), you won't get any grief from me. As I said, I would not do it. If I were to swap to disc, I would use the larger rotors and the 15" (minimum) wheels. That's simply my opinion, give it whatever weight you deem appropriate.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27658
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
06-15-18 10:51 PM - Post#2737117    
    In response to japete92

  • japete92 Said:
Ray,

Just curious; why only 'semi-correct'?

The GM designers utilized the larger rotors on the heavier full size car. And, my opinion/preference are not 'fact' and by definition can not be incorrect. Others may have differing ones, and those can not be incorrect also.....


Well, after giving this more thought, I agree that what we have here is a difference of opinion. I took issue with your assertion that the stock drums were adequate for the Impala while the 11" discs would not offer sufficient improvement to justify the cost of installing them. My personal experience has been that the Camaro discs performed better than the stock drums, but I have to admit that this was anecdotal rather than factual. The only way we may ever know for sure would be a documented road test of the same car before and after.

I apologize for any offense I may have given.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-16-18 06:29 AM - Post#2737144    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
  • japete92 Said:
Ray,

Just curious; why only 'semi-correct'?

The GM designers utilized the larger rotors on the heavier full size car. And, my opinion/preference are not 'fact' and by definition can not be incorrect. Others may have differing ones, and those can not be incorrect also.....


Well, after giving this more thought, I agree that what we have here is a difference of opinion. I took issue with your assertion that the stock drums were adequate for the Impala while the 11" discs would not offer sufficient improvement to justify the cost of installing them. My personal experience has been that the Camaro discs performed better than the stock drums, but I have to admit that this was anecdotal rather than factual. The only way we may ever know for sure would be a documented road test of the same car before and after.

I apologize for any offense I may have given.

Ray




Ray,

It was obvious to me that we had different opinions. I was joking and took NOTHING even close to offense. No apology required, nor was one expected/solicited. The 'semi-correct' comment made me giggle and I was trying to return the

Pete



Edited by japete92 on 06-16-18 06:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-16-18 06:50 PM - Post#2737203    
    In response to japete92

Gentleman, no need to fight over little 'ole me...

I have two Studebakers with factory Gurling solid disc brakes. These cars are 3200 pounds. I'm sure vented disc brakes will work on a 3650 pound Impala. My thought is that if drum brakes were better, they'd still have them on new cars.

IF I went to 15" wheels, I could probably use the '69 or '72 full wheel covers. But I still like the full 14" wheel covers used in 1963. Wilwood sells rotors/calipers that will work with 14" wheels.

I do appreciate the input. It does make me think...


Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-17-18 08:02 AM - Post#2737254    
    In response to Swifster

  • Swifster Said:
Gentleman, no need to fight over little 'ole me...

I have two Studebakers with factory Gurling solid disc brakes. These cars are 3200 pounds. I'm sure vented disc brakes will work on a 3650 pound Impala. My thought is that if drum brakes were better, they'd still have them on new cars.

IF I went to 15" wheels, I could probably use the '69 or '72 full wheel covers. But I still like the full 14" wheel covers used in 1963. Wilwood sells rotors/calipers that will work with 14" wheels.

I do appreciate the input. It does make me think...





My sole goal is to induce 'thinking'. ALL decisions are the owners and 'one shoe' does not fit all.

A few things to think about:

The GM rotors being discussed are not vented. They are solid. Does that matter? Not to me, but if brake fade is a big concern of yours, it may to you.

"I have two Studebakers with factory Gurling solid disc brakes. These cars are 3200 pounds. I'm sure vented disc brakes will work on a 3650 pound Impala."

When you say 'work', if you mean stop the car, then, yes, they 'work'. Will they stop the car as intended by the GM designer? No. The 400 lbs of additional weight makes a significant difference. This is why 'thinking' about using the Camaro brakes on a heavier car is suggested. The designers at GM went to larger rotors (and resultant larger wheels) in the full size car. I'd bet a dollar it's because of the additional weight.

"My thought is that if drum brakes were better, they'd still have the new cars."

"Newer" cars are designed for a wider range of usage than their 'older' brethren, and disc brakes are a better choice. They are also easier to work on.

My thought provoking suggestion? It's an over simplification to judge the drum vs disc choice on 'fleet decisions' and trends. You know how, and where, you intend to drive your one-of-a-kind car. There is a 'best' choice, judge that for yourself.

Don't get me wrong, modern car braking SYSTEMS (hydraulics, controls, tires, suspensions, etc) are far superior to the 50 year old ones. If one wants to really mimic, or come close to, the 'modern' brakes', there are many more changes required than just switching to disc.

AM I recommending staying with the drums? No. not at all. I am suggesting as one compromises between the nostalgic looks, and 'modern' performance, drum brakes MAY be the 'better' choice. Only you know the answer.

Just trying to be helpful.

Pete









 
Swifster 
Poster
Posts: 22

Loc: Bradenton, FL
Reg: 05-26-18
06-17-18 09:35 AM - Post#2737259    
    In response to japete92

Pete, it's all good.

As mentioned, the car will see 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year. I'd rather replace brake pads every other year. I also trust 1, 2 or 4 piston calipers over wheel cylinders. Just my personal beliefs.


When I start this build, I have to keep track of the finances. I keep the totals in the signature.

Tom

1963 Chevrolet ?
$121.00


 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1018
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
06-17-18 11:21 AM - Post#2737270    
    In response to Swifster

If you are going to use the disc in the rear also, pre-planning how to 'work in' a parking brake will simplify things.

Pete



 
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