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Username Post: 80'sd rear Cad Calipers E brake adjustment        (Topic#351305)
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-27-18 10:32 AM - Post#2735058    

Hello;
Continuing with biting off way more than I can chew!!
Up graded my 57 to all disc kit which has Wilwood master, front calipers, all ss brake lines and brackets, disc and hardware. (kit from Pirate Jack) So far so good (installation) had a couple snags here and there but now Im in do-do!
This kit has rear calipers off an 80's Cad! These calipers are what a lot of different suppliers include because they have a E Brake built into them which hooks directly into the 57's ebrake set up!
When I got it installed, everything looked very good, the shims supplied were not needed and we thought that everything would work just fine, so we skipped the caliper adjustment and went to the bleeding process! (The caliper adjustment was supposed to be done before bleeding)
This adjustment defies logic! and it states in every article I have found that this ebrake adjustment is very critical to firm brake pedal!!
DOES ANYONE HERE HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON THIS ADJUSTMENT AND HOW TO "MAKE IT" !!!!! I tried and couldn't see anything happening!! One video I looked at said that there are two kinds of people for this, ones that HATE it cause they cant seem to make the needed adjustment and ones that love it cause of the adjustment!! Pedal is still spongy (Im thinking way more bleeding is needed!!)
Every article (one that came with the kit, CPP, Speedway, and some utube videos) all approach this differently!! VERY DIFFERENTLY!
If I had known this was such a PIA I would of just put rear drum brakes back on and I would of been driving now!!! Not in my driveway on jackstands for over a month!!
I can look from over the top of the caliper and see a very small distance (3/16" maybe) from the piston to the back of the pad on both sides and when I manually move the lever the piston moves very little (1/64") and still does not contact the pad!!! This is like a Magic Trick"????

Bruce



 

Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27411
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
05-27-18 12:43 PM - Post#2735069    
    In response to Bruces 57

You need to remove the calipers and adjust the pistons outward toward the pads as far as you can and still be able to get the caliper back over the rotor. The adjustment is made by rotating the piston with a special spanner wrench that has two dowel pins that engage the piston.

Once you get the initial adjustment tight enough, then the adjustment you get by excercising the e-brake will work from then on.

You must also use the e-brake often to keep up the self adjustment, if you don't you'll be in this same situation again.



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-27-18 01:31 PM - Post#2735078    
    In response to Bruces 57

CPP has recently modified the instructions for the Cadillac emergency brake. If you don't have this one, follow it closely, even if it doesn't make sense what it does. Especially to paragraph 5. Try to get it way less than 1/8". Link to emergency brake adj.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Andy4639 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1138

Age: 57
Loc: Liberty, SC
Reg: 08-06-16
05-27-18 01:55 PM - Post#2735080    
    In response to acardon

I put this same setup on my 71 C 10 and it's the worst upgrade I ever did! I hate it. It doesn't stop any better than it did when I had the drums on the rear. It's a waste of good money.


1956 Bel Air - LT-1/4l60
1964 SS Impala -350 crate/powerglide
1967 Ramp truck - 350/ 4 speed
1971 C 10 - 6.0 LS / 4l80e 4:10 gears 30 years owner
94 Elderado
2000 S-10
2008 LTZ Tahoe
2011 Treverse


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-27-18 09:38 PM - Post#2735124    
    In response to Andy4639

Hello;
I heard it said that there are two kinds of users for this modification, ones that hate it, like some (me to, kinda) and ones that just love it because they understand how to set it up! Im not there yet but I plan on being a darn expert when I'm finished!!
You know these days there are shops that do this kind of install and to tell you the truth, some of those are the ones I say, "I could of done that" about.
I won't go into the ways I know about this kind of stuff, lets just say I have "fully" experienced it !!!!!
I have made up my mind that "this mod has to happen NO MATTER WHAT " and I have to put myself on a learning curve to do it!!
Thanks for the great information!

Bruce




 
5Larry7 
"15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1938
5Larry7
Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 05-17-04
05-28-18 09:14 AM - Post#2735146    
    In response to Bruces 57

I have this type of rear disc caliper on my car and after several phone conversations with a tech guy at Right Stuff Detailing, I got a good e-brake adjustment and the rears work fine. As previously written, it is important to use the e-brake fairly often to keep them in adjustment.

'57 210, 327 cid, Holley MPFI, 700R4, A/C & more.
'51 Studebaker Starlite coupe, 350, TH400, GV OD.
'96 Replica of a 1950's Teardrop Trailer.


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-29-18 06:14 PM - Post#2735311    
    In response to 5Larry7

Hello;
This GD Thing defies logic!!! We fiddled with it all afternoon!! Adjusted the e brake till the rotor wouldn't turn when applied! But turn when not!
Then we found a couple more leekey line connections. Then got the car on all fours, and drove it a bit! I can' begin to tell you how disappointed I was that:
The brakes sucked!
The emergency brake didn't work worth a squat!!
And the engine wasn't running worth a poop!!!
So. . . I plan to attack this bastard tomorrow, and adjust the e brake till the car can't move!! then we will see!!
There must be something I have overlooked, bleeding brakes again, although we didn't take the rear calipers off to bleed them! Everything I looked at says take them off to bleed them or at least loose!!
I remember that when I first added a booster to my car's brake system (disc drum, no power) how much of a mess it was to get everything operating really good as well as how great it stoped!!!!
Guess that bolting a bunch of parts on a car that they don't belong on has its effects!!

Bruce



 
Andy4639 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1138

Age: 57
Loc: Liberty, SC
Reg: 08-06-16
05-30-18 02:48 AM - Post#2735338    
    In response to Bruces 57

I'm telling you now if it's just for street driving you wasted good money on rear disc brakes! I'll never install another set on anything. I'll go to the biggest rear drum brake I can find.


1956 Bel Air - LT-1/4l60
1964 SS Impala -350 crate/powerglide
1967 Ramp truck - 350/ 4 speed
1971 C 10 - 6.0 LS / 4l80e 4:10 gears 30 years owner
94 Elderado
2000 S-10
2008 LTZ Tahoe
2011 Treverse


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-30-18 08:07 AM - Post#2735379    
    In response to Andy4639

Hello;
Im not sold, but I am not agreeing with you yet. This kit should work very well! I see that the biggest problem seems to be seting up the rear calipers to perform right. I've had these kinds of problems in the past when I converted my 57 from non power brakes (disc/drum) to power brakes! Even had it with my 32 ford!!! The adjustments to something like this are so very many and such that a half a turn on something makes it go from not enough to "way over" Im not going to give up yet! Im going to take this one all the way and eithor find out why it isn't working like it should!!!
So far Im thinking the rear calipers still aren't adjusted right YET!!

Bruce





 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-30-18 08:54 AM - Post#2735383    
    In response to Bruces 57

Yes, they can be made to work and will continue to work reliably once adjusted. Cadillac used them for years.
Get a 1" spacer to put between the pads and adjust the calipers on the bench or take the rotor off and use it. I used a 1" thick block of wood. Then adjust the lever to get minimum clearance as mentioned in paragraph 5. It's easy to pass up the minimum adjustment and have to start over. Keep trying by going around again.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


Edited by acardon on 05-30-18 08:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-31-18 06:22 AM - Post#2735472    
    In response to acardon

Hello;
Acardon. I don't know what you are referencing (paragraph 5)
Would you please give me a link or info on that.
Car is on hold, having to remove header that burned my plug wire as well as address a leaking PS pump! All upgrades!

Bruce



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
05-31-18 07:17 AM - Post#2735479    
    In response to Bruces 57

I posted the link in my first post. Link to EMERGENCY BRAKE LEVER ADJUSTMENT.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
05-31-18 05:40 PM - Post#2735529    
    In response to acardon

Hello;
Thanks for the info. I had that printed up and read. I also had a really good video from MBM on my phone.
OK, Here is what I found! I jacked up the car and took a look at what was going on. I can grab the brake cable (coming from the caliper) and pull it and the brakes will lock up!! TIGHT!! so . . . Im thinking to re adjust again. My e brake handle (in the car) is pulled up tight (6 or 7 inches) but it only moves the levers on the caliper about a 3/16 of an inch and thats about it!
Now Im wondering if I need to adjust the e brake mechanisms on the car to maybe get more "pull" on the cables. When I hand pull the cable under the car the lever moves about 3/4 of an inch.
According to every article (about 6 in all) that should be enough and is clearly enough to lock up the wheels but Im not seeming to be getting that kind of "pull" from the cars E brake set up!
Had considered trying to shorten the new supplied e brake cables!, but don't want to totally screw up everything!!
Upon looking at the e brake under the car there is at least two adjustments. One for the cable "yoke" and one on the cable extending to the e brake handle (clevis). Or should I opt to try to adjust the calipers more!?? Im kinda thinking a combination of both?

Bruce



 
Algoma56 
Contributor
Posts: 694

Loc: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Can...
Reg: 03-14-05
05-31-18 09:40 PM - Post#2735541    
    In response to Bruces 57

A little more reading on the caliper system. I know when I did a Versailles rear in a friend's hot rod, I had to adjust the piston out enough that the pads just touched the rotor. We then hooked up the parking brake cable to adjust it. On that one, I added a multiplier lever in the cable system, to increase pull on the rear calipers. Not the exact same, but will give you some more info.

http://classicbroncos.com/reardiscs.shtml





 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
06-01-18 06:45 AM - Post#2735566    
    In response to Bruces 57

  • Quote:
When I hand pull the cable under the car the lever moves about 3/4 of an inch.



The emergency brake in the car does not have to work to adjust the calipers, only to keep them adjusted for wear. I think 3/4" travel of the arm is way too much when the e-brake lever is adjusted correctly, although I'm not sure. I never measured that. There needs to be very little freeplay of the lever from the stop, as discribed in paragraph 4 and 5.


Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Algoma56 
Contributor
Posts: 694

Loc: Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Can...
Reg: 03-14-05
06-01-18 07:59 AM - Post#2735576    
    In response to acardon

You're right. IF the auto-adjust mechanism is free and working, one can disconnect the cable, and just manually ratchet the lever, to work the piston out to the proper spot. Then reconnect cable, and adjust that part of the system.



 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
06-01-18 01:49 PM - Post#2735613    
    In response to Algoma56

Hello;
Well, I got under the car and marked where the sliding bar that pulls the cable (yoke) is, and noticed my bracket it slides in had a rather ridiculous slant to it, (hit on the bottom) not to mention a yard of crud! out comes the wire brush and I cleaned the whole thing up. Next I sprayed some lube on the whole mechanism! Before I cleaned it the actuating arm would only travel about an 1/8" Now, ALL THE WAY BABY!!!! but it still isn't enough so now that I have the inside handle and mechanism all working right next I will back off the tension, remove the cables and try the actuation levers to see if I get any gain out of it that way before I dis assemble the caliper again! Then my plan is to take out the top caliper pin, loosen the bottom pin straighten the caliper on the disc and somehow bleed the damn thing! (s)
At least Im seeing that the actuating levers will lock up the wheels but the travel is almost an inch!! I hate those springs on the calipers!

Bruce



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
06-01-18 01:59 PM - Post#2735615    
    In response to Bruces 57

One more time, the cable has nothing to do with the caliper adjustment. The caliper can be adjusted without the cable. The purpose of this preadjustment is to get the piston close enough to the pad, so there is enough fluid to move the piston against the pad. If the adjustment isn't correct, you won't have enough fluid to move the piston, and the pedal will go to the floor.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 27411
Rick_L
Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
06-01-18 04:27 PM - Post#2735629    
    In response to acardon

Don, if you can get the pad to move out to the rotor using the e-brake lever, isn't the adjustment good enough to have hydraulic brake action too?

Just seems like Bruce's problem is that he has the caliper adjusted but his cable system isn't working adequately (with enough travel at the lever on the caliper).

I am still learning about this. I have Lincoln Versailles calipers on mine (yet to be commissioned), rebuilt by Raybestos. It's my understanding that the Lincoln calipers work in the same manner as the Caddy calipers. Shouldn't have to do anything other than connect up the cables and bleed the hydraulics, but you never know.



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
06-01-18 06:35 PM - Post#2735641    
    In response to Rick_L

For some reason, the e-brake lever will not ratchet the self adjuster unless it's set real close. I think there is a similar procedure in the Cadillac shop manual when calipers are replaced.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
06-01-18 07:02 PM - Post#2735644    
    In response to Rick_L

Hello;
You know this system still defies logic!!!!
Got under the car, took my gloved hand and pulled the cable on each side about 40 times!!!! NOTHING!!!! NO adjustment is or seems to be happening!!!!
The video I have on my phone from MBM states "it is impossible to over adjust these calipers!!!! Using a 9/16 wrench with the arm off!
I remember reading one article that stated that "sometimes" the adjustment gets hung up!! It would be me that has that problem!!!
Im about to take the stuff off the levers and get a nice BFH and give
each side a "wakeup" WACK!!
You know if I hadn't spent over $1600 for this thing I would go back to disc front drum rear at WAY CHEAPER and BETTER!!!
Seems like I need a brake genius with a crystal ball!!!!
What gets me is that if I had more movement the damn things would work!! I wonder if I could find a way to shorten the cables?
Somehow Im thinking that "something isn't right"!!??
The adjustment says that no more than a half to three quarters of an inch of travel on the adjusting levers! (after adjustment) Im only getting about 3/8" If I pull the cable that wheel locks up! (like it should) at about 3/4 of an inch off the rest!!! My thought is to adjust this till I have 3/8 " to lock up the wheels but Im going nowhere very fast! (and I won't be able to STOP!!) ha, ha!

Bruce



 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
06-09-18 10:23 AM - Post#2736402    
    In response to Bruces 57

Hello;
Pen and paper is needed!!! GOT THE SETTING!!!!!
when I used my Brake handle (at first) disc wouldn't lock up!
Took off the e brake cables, springs, and cable arms on the calipers, and adjusted the bolt inside till it wouldn't go any more!!!!
Put it all back together and I had, Passingers side locking up when pulling the e brake lever, but the drivers side not! This indicates to me that the cable needed to be on center (however the hell you could find that I don't know!!!) So I loosened the yoke again, pulled the e brake cable back from the rear of the lever on the drivers side. split open a small lock washer and put it between the end of the cable and the lever and "crushed" it in place . Then re adjusted the yoke under the car, pulled the hand brake lever and WA-LA both disc are locking up!!!!!!!! Further examination gave me a measurement of 3/16 from lever stop to deployed!!! Perfect from what info I read so far!!!
Next, I have to loosen the yoke again (damn that is a pia!) take each caliper, take out the top pin and loosen the bottom pin, tilt that caliper straight and bleed the air out of each! Then I should be good to go!!!!!
See, Im telling you I am becoming a bonafide expert!!!!

Bruce



 
acardon 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 11042
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
06-09-18 12:07 PM - Post#2736415    
    In response to Bruces 57

  • Quote:
So I loosened the yoke again,



The left and right cables should NOT have to be shimmed for equal tension. The cable should slide in the yoke to always keep equal tension on both calipers.

Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2394

Reg: 01-03-07
06-10-18 08:13 AM - Post#2736504    
    In response to acardon

Hello;
I had really cleaned that yoke and threaded rod like new but somehow I didn't get the cable to do that!
I did the shim after talking to a tech with MBM about my problems with the rear calipers!
Eithor way, the darn thing works now!!
It's my educated guess that the yoke probably is not allowing the cable to move freely inside it from all the years of abuse it's had!

Bruce



Edited by Bruces 57 on 06-10-18 08:16 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 

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