Bruster
Contributor
Posts: 130
Reg: 12-07-13
|
05-24-18 12:52 PM - Post#2734849
I saw this in a Hagerty news letter, thought it was very interesting as my 71 Z-28 came with a CE block.
With all the stories and Karl showing us the original title, from 1969, we were certain the car was a Z/28. The trim tag backed up the Z/28 package with its X33 stamping. But what about that engine? Lightbourn shined his light onto the pad on the passenger-side front of the engine, where it read, “CEA.” At the same time, Michael spoke on his cellphone to a former GM employee who worked for Chevrolet when these cars were new.
“CE” possibly refers to Counter Exchange or Chevrolet Engine. No matter—not just anybody could buy an engine stamped “CE,” which is a designation for warranty action and not available to the public.
In this light, an older GM muscle car with a warrantied engine is different from the same GM muscle car with a missing engine that has been replaced by a private party. Sometimes these shops or owners get a “correct DZ” block, but this engine installation would not be as rigorous as a CE replacement from Chevrolet.
In other words, collectors will spout, “Oh, the original engine is missing, so this Z/28 will never be numbers-matching.” Maybe so, but a Counter Exchange creates a correct factory replacement engine, authorized by Chevrolet procedure.
|
|
 elcamino
Member #185
Posts: 5661
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
|
07-05-18 08:11 AM - Post#2739036
In response to Bruster
Mike
2024 GMC 4WD Sierra Denali 3.0L/10-sp
2022 Polaris RZR XP 1000 Ride Command
2017 John Deere X738 |
|
elcamino
Member #185
Posts: 5661
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
|
07-05-18 08:33 AM - Post#2739040
In response to elcamino
CE ENGINE INFO
The "CE" coding was invented for short blocks that were replacements under the 5/50 Powertrain Warranty program that was in effect from 1967-1970, so the finance guys could segregate those replacements from the normal out-of-warranty and over-the-counter replacement engines, so they could determine the true cost of the 5/50 program. Generally speaking, out-of-warranty replacement and over-the-counter short blocks (called "partial engines" in those days) had blank pads, and only complete engines had stamped pads.
When the liability for replacement of 5/50 warranty engines expired in 1975, I'm sure there were a lot of "CE" short blocks in inventory, and those went into the parts system as out-of-warranty and over-the-counter short blocks. "CE" blocks were only available as short blocks (block, crank, rods, pistons) or as "fitted blocks" (block with ringed pistons fitted, no crank or rods).
(Per johnz)
************************* ************************* *****************
Beginning in 1970, upon completion of the regular CE serial numbers, a plant reused CE numbers preceded by the letter "A" to indicate late production.
Example: CE0A12345
Flint Plant used if need be:
A00001-A19999 & A80001-A89999 for L6 engines.
A20000-A49999 & A90000-A99999 for V8 engines.
Tonawanda Plant used if need be:
A50000-A79999 for their V8 engines.
They continued this practice throughout the 1970's,so when you find a block numbered like this, look at the number after the CE suffix to determine the year. i.e. CE3A12345 for 1973.
************************* ************************* *****************
Tonawanda and Flint V-8 each made around 5500 engines per day (one every twelve seconds)
"CE" replacements were short-blocks, not complete engines, and came without cylinder heads.
The CE block could not be ordered by an individual at the counter or exchanged as a core by an individual. It was only issued after being inspected by an authorized dealer and approved by a GM area service representative.
************************* ************************* **********************
Large time span isn't impossible, but it's highly unusual; there was nothing special about that block - no reason for it to sit around for four months at either Saginaw Foundry or Flint V-8 when they were making 5500-6000 engines per day. It's not what we'd call "typical", which is 2-4 weeks prior.
• Block casting date must always be before engine assembly date.
• Block casting date usually very close to engine assembly date.
• Engine assembly date must always be before vehicle (not body) assembly date.
• Engine assembly date almost always is before the Fisher Body cowl tag date. In the unusual case it is later, it should be within a week of the body.
• Engine assembly date often less than 30 days before vehicle build.
• Engine assembly date less often 30-90 days before vehicle build.
• Odd exceptions of older blocks can occur.
CON2 is conveyor 2 in the foundry
Mike
2024 GMC 4WD Sierra Denali 3.0L/10-sp
2022 Polaris RZR XP 1000 Ride Command
2017 John Deere X738 |
|
Shepherd
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3506
Loc: Lake George, NY
Reg: 11-11-15
|
07-05-18 12:37 PM - Post#2739068
In response to elcamino
Great info!! I worked for GM Cad division, during the 5/50 era did a lot of front end work back then in the 5 Burroughs of NyC. Not much engine replacements, though.
|
elcamino
Member #185
Posts: 5661
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
|
07-06-18 09:16 PM - Post#2739245
In response to Shepherd
Cadi engines were built tough. Chevy hot rod engines were bought by customers who beat the crap out of them and failures occurred (poor quality control back then). I had a new 1970 Chevelle SS454. While I never had engine problems I hot rodded it a lot. Muscle cars were all over the streets. Most young guys who had a job had a factory hot rod. I had a buddy with 442, a GTX, Road Runner, SS396 Camaro and a 1970 Road Runner 440 Super Bird. He wrecked it, driving drunk, spun out hit and concrete block building hard with the front end. It was close to totalled. Had it fixed but it was never right again.
Mike
2024 GMC 4WD Sierra Denali 3.0L/10-sp
2022 Polaris RZR XP 1000 Ride Command
2017 John Deere X738 |
|
Tony1963
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2448
Loc: Orlando Florida
Reg: 07-09-18
|
08-18-18 03:34 PM - Post#2743534
In response to elcamino
I thought that "CE" was for "Chevette Engine".
| People fear change because it threatens what they know, or what they claim to know. |
|
|
|
Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member 
