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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: 1964 Impala SS ACC Code Difficulty        (Topic#351021)
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-08-18 07:49 AM - Post#2733382    

Hello all, new user here and glad to join I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge here immensely.

I have looked through the already posted threads and links to help me decipher the acc code tag of an Impala I am purchasing to no avail and hoping you guys/gals could help me out.

The tag reads ACC EKMSFC5W

Helpful link : https://photos.app.goo.gl/jCKpJ4eWAsVFwUW16


Thank you all.



 
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aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-08-18 08:01 AM - Post#2733386    
    In response to aryajet

So what I have been able to decipher so far all but the "F" in the middle:

E - Tinted Glass All
K - Air Conditioning
M - Powerglide
S - Rear Manual Antenna
F -
C - Padded Dash
Group 5 W - Passenger Side Mirror

Just cannot seem to decipher the F.



 
BigDogSS 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4609
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
05-08-18 08:35 AM - Post#2733391    
    In response to aryajet

Info from: http://impalas.org/numbers/

F = Comfort and Convenience Group (RPO Z13)
W = Custom front deluxe seat belts w/retractors

I don't think a right-hand mirror was a factory installed option at all for 1958-1969 full-size Chevrolets.

    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible - Ermine White C1
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS 396 - Marina Blue FF



 
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-08-18 09:00 AM - Post#2733394    
    In response to BigDogSS

Thanks Big Dog!! I appreciate this help very much.



 
Carl1962 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1270
Carl1962
Loc: Bungendore Australia
Reg: 04-01-10
05-09-18 12:23 AM - Post#2733476    
    In response to aryajet

That tag is a reproduction, which means it might not be the car it is assumed to be and therefore might not be a genuine SS and the options might not be original to the car.

Cheers, Carl.

1962 SS Impala Sports Coupe

http://s465.photobucket.com/albums/rr18/1956Carlo s...


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13870
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-09-18 06:51 AM - Post#2733489    
    In response to Carl1962

Aryajet, welcome to CT. Post some pictures of your car if you are able. We love pictures.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
BigDogSS 
"9th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4609
BigDogSS
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
05-09-18 08:09 AM - Post#2733499    
    In response to Carl1962

  • Carl1962 Said:
That tag is a reproduction, which means it might not be the car it is assumed to be and therefore might not be a genuine SS and the options might not be original to the car.


Wow, Carl --> what tipped you off that it is a repro?
I'm not all that versed in pre-1965 cowl tags. I've looked mostly at 1966-67 tags. The thing I thought was strange was the lack of group numbers (except group code "5") in the accessory code line. Does the 1964 cowl tags also include the group code numbers like the 1965-67 cowl tags?

    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible - Ermine White C1
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS 396 - Marina Blue FF



Edited by BigDogSS on 05-09-18 08:18 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-09-18 10:56 AM - Post#2733510    
    In response to Carl1962

Holy hell Carl you came in the clutch! I was about to go to Washington from Texas to seal this deal! Honestly any question, any hiccup and it is not worth it to me.

I would love to hear how you knew it was a repro tag!! Thank you so much!!



 
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-09-18 10:57 AM - Post#2733513    
    In response to rrausch

Hey rrausch!

I would love to post pictures! I am in the process of making a life long dream come true and it appears Carl might have saved my censored.

When I do make the purchase here shortly I will be sure to share it with you all!




 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2599

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
05-09-18 03:20 PM - Post#2733541    
    In response to aryajet

If you are going in with your eyes wide open, and know all the facts, if the car is what you want, and it is worth the price, then I would say buy it. Just keep in mind, that when you sell it, you have the obligation to advise prospective buyers of the true facts. As long as the other paperwork, such as VIN and title haven't been tampered with, you have some good bargaining chips to work with.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13870
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-09-18 04:07 PM - Post#2733543    
    In response to junky

I would love to hear Verne's take on that cowl tag.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2599

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
05-09-18 06:29 PM - Post#2733560    
    In response to rrausch

A fraudulent cowl tag is just that... A fraud, but it doesn't rise to the level that an altered VIN would.. If it were an altered VIN, then I would say stay away, and no matter how good the deal, stay away, because an altered VIN is a federal crime! The only time that a fraudulent cowl tag could become a crime, is if it is use to defraud the buyer. It is a fine line distinction.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5392
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
05-09-18 07:39 PM - Post#2733565    
    In response to rrausch

  • rrausch Said:
I would love to hear Verne's take on that cowl tag.



There are actually quite a number of things wrong with that repro tag. The tag style itself is not what was used then at the Atlanta plant, ACC codes are not arranged properly and fonts are wrong.
Forgive me if I don't go into specifics. I'm not in favor of helping the forgers improve their craft.
I'd stay away from that car.
Verne



 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5392
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
05-09-18 07:42 PM - Post#2733566    
    In response to junky

  • junky Said:
A fraudulent cowl tag is just that... A fraud, but it doesn't rise to the level that an altered VIN would.. If it were an altered VIN, then I would say stay away, and no matter how good the deal, stay away, because an altered VIN is a federal crime! The only time that a fraudulent cowl tag could become a crime, is if it is use to defraud the buyer. It is a fine line distinction.



Oklahoma has a law on the books (that I helped write) making any alteration to a cowl tag a crime.
I wish more states would adopt it.

Verne





 
Carl1962 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1270
Carl1962
Loc: Bungendore Australia
Reg: 04-01-10
05-10-18 01:01 AM - Post#2733573    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

  • aryajet Said:
Holy hell Carl you came in the clutch! I was about to go to Washington from Texas to seal this deal! Honestly any question, any hiccup and it is not worth it to me.

I would love to hear how you knew it was a repro tag!! Thank you so much!!



As Verne said, there are several things that give away the fact that the tag is a reproduction. While I have no hesitation voicing my opinion on the authenticity of a tag or even decoding tags for people, I don't like to discuss the things that give away why a tag might be a repro. However, if you look carefully at enough tags (thousands in my case), you'll get to a point where you'll be able to tell the differences. FYI, even repro tags tell you things and I keep photos of them all for future reference.

BigdogSS, you were right to think that something was strange about the groupings, but there were other things as well.

Anyhoo, welcome to CT and good luck with your purchase aryajet. It's cool that it's been your life-long dream to own one of these old girls, and when you do eventually buy one, post photos, lots of photos, we all love photos.

Cheers, Carl.

1962 SS Impala Sports Coupe

http://s465.photobucket.com/albums/rr18/1956Carlo s...


 
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-12-18 09:43 AM - Post#2733772    
    In response to Carl1962

Well I cannot thank everyone enough for your time and effort in answering my questions. It is looking more and more like I am leaning towards this 64' in the link. I have preliminarily agreed on what I think is a fair deal pending me seeing the car at some point this weekend:

http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/HOU/1013/1964-Ch...

Any and all comments, questions, concerns are welcomed. Thank you all again.

Last pic is the acc tag hopefully this one is original lol.



 
japete92 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1025
japete92
Loc: No. Virginia
Reg: 01-18-13
05-12-18 11:38 AM - Post#2733782    
    In response to aryajet

It's hard to tell from the pics, but the exhaust manifolds look like the 2", the down pipes also look like 2". I believe the 300 hp 327 had the 2 1/2" manifolds and down pipes to the muffler (that is true on a '63, '64? I'm not sure).

There is a number, and suffix, stamped on the block (in the front, just under the head). That number/suffix should ID the engine (in it's original form).

I would also want to ID the heads, carb, and manifold to help verify the 300 hp claim.

Again it's hard to tell but it looks like the fan is the 4 blade, non-clutch type. I think the 300 hp 327s had the five blade clutched fan.

I may be incorrect on the '64s. I'm much more confident in my knowledge of the '63s.

I'm not going to say anything bad, or good, about a car based on pics and advertised claims.

My best advice is to educate yourself about the '64s (or whatever year you are considering) and how they were configured new. When you inspect a car, ID what's been modified and price your offer accordingly. Verify everything that's important to you.

Pete



 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2599

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
05-12-18 11:58 AM - Post#2733783    
    In response to japete92

I noticed a difference in the color of the side trim. Don't know if it is an optical illusion, just pointing it out...



I would also be very suspect of the air conditioning having a leak, because I see 2 hose clamps where only one belongs on the receiver drier.


I also wonder why they would paint over the VIN tag, and not clean it off. I is made of polished stainless steel.


Data Plate for the record..




Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


Edited by junky on 05-12-18 12:12 PM. Reason for edit: added additional information

 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1180
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
05-12-18 12:31 PM - Post#2733785    
    In response to junky

While we're on the subject of cowl tags, this one looks more questionable to me than the first one in this thread. It's a lot different from the cowl tag on my original St. Louis '64 SS. Maybe they changed some after mine was built, but I doubt they changed that much. I don't like the rivets either. And the tag wasn't on the car when it was painted most recently. And all the options listed on the tag could make you question if it is a "built" car.

Even though mine isn't this nice looking yet, there are some things about this one that could look a lot better: The tops of the inner door panels and the trim over the outer taillights. It always surprises me when a restorer does the hard stuff so well then does stuff like that when putting the finishing touches on.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
kingkreeton 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1164
kingkreeton
Loc: Houston TX
Reg: 04-15-11
05-12-18 02:27 PM - Post#2733792    
    In response to aryajet

I would be curious as to how long ago this frame off restoration took place. There are some dry rotted bushings on the front end that you would think should have been replaced during that time.

Also, the 4th picture from the last, clearly shows the transmission is leaking. I'm not sure how long the car has been sitting there prior to pictures being taken but I would think that a freshly rebuilt transmission (less than 700 miles) should not be leaking that much. I would ask for paperwork regarding this rebuild.

There is also a bolt missing on one of the studs going into the frame towards the front end. Sorry, but can't tell you what exactly it is for at the moment as I don't have quick access to mine.

Shane
64 Impala SS: 350 4 speed

"Let's go Reds"


 
Carl1962 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1270
Carl1962
Loc: Bungendore Australia
Reg: 04-01-10
05-12-18 03:42 PM - Post#2733799    
    In response to kingkreeton

Aryajet can make up his own mind about any of the problems mentioned above, and you've got to find things to beat down the seller's price, but at least the cowl tag is legit even though it appears to have been removed and re-fitted with new rivets. The restorer should not have done that because now it's hard to know without any doubt if the tag is the original for the car. However, the seller mentions that there is "build sheet information", so if this is the Chevrolet broadcast sheet there should be body and VIN numbers on that if I'm not mistaken. The VIN is about right for a car built in St Louis in the 3rd week March 64. Another way to confirm the VIN and engine match is the partial VIN number on the engine stamp pad. All 300hp 327 had the car's VIN on the stamp pad, so if they match, that's a huge bonus.

FYI, in 64 there were three styles of cowl tag and this is an example of the final design and is correct for the date. Warren Leunig's website can decode it. http://impalas.org/numbers/

Cheers, Carl.

1962 SS Impala Sports Coupe

http://s465.photobucket.com/albums/rr18/1956Carlo s...


Edited by Carl1962 on 05-12-18 09:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
4spd409 
"12th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 576
4spd409
Loc: West Fargo ND
Reg: 10-10-02
05-12-18 04:41 PM - Post#2733805    
    In response to junky

The carb appears to be a Quadrajet. They weren't used on 327s until 1966. So what is the motor? There are a lot of things about the car that look great but a lot of little things that question the restoration. Front of motor dirty, leaky steering gear, grill has a few bent bars. None of these things are major and I hope you can work out a deal and have a great car that just needs a little tlc.

61 Impala Bubbletop


 
junky 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2599

Loc: Northeast CT
Reg: 06-27-10
05-12-18 06:36 PM - Post#2733824    
    In response to kingkreeton

It is the nature of the old style of transmissions to leak if they sit for long periods of time. What happens, is that the oil in the torque converter will leak back into the oil pan, and then the pan will overflow onto the floor below. For this reason, you should start your car every month, and run it through the gears to keep the torque converter full and your floor dry. My 1963 Chrysler did it, and my 1962 Chevrolet, as well as my 1969 Cadillac. I keep a large piece of cardboard under the cars when they are sleeping for the winter. I can clearly remember in the dealership showroom, they had oil drip pans under all the new cars.

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5392
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
05-12-18 07:41 PM - Post#2733828    
    In response to Carl1962

  • Carl1962 Said:
Aryajet can make up his own mind about any of the problems mentioned above, and you've got to find things to beat down the seller's price, but at least the cowl tag is legit even though it appears to have been removed and re-fitted with new rivets. The restorer should not have done that because now it's hard to know without any doubt if the tag is the original for the car. However, the seller mentions that there is "build sheet information", so if this is the Chevrolet broadcast sheet there should be body and VIN numbers on that if I'm not mistaken. The VIN is about right for a car built in St Louis in the 3rd week March 64. Another way to confirm the VIN and engine match is the partial VIN number on the engine stamp pad. All 300hp 327 had the car's VIN on the stamp pad, so if they match, that's a huge bonus.

FYI, in 64 there were three styles of cowl tag and this is an example of the final design and is correct for the date. Warren Leunig's website can decode it. http://impalas.org/numbers/



Carl,
I have to disagree with you about the cowl tag. Although I haven't seen a repro "yet" with the correct notched corners, there are other indications to me that it's a repro. I should also mention that '64 SL cars did not change cowl tag styles completely at one point in production. I have examples of the 1st design being used after this tag.
Please don't overlook the obvious fact that it looks brand new.
I haven't even looked at all the other things others have pointed out. To me, the cowl tag is a deal breaker.
Verne



 
Carl1962 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1270
Carl1962
Loc: Bungendore Australia
Reg: 04-01-10
05-12-18 09:20 PM - Post#2733831    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

  • Verne_Frantz Said:


Carl,
I have to disagree with you about the cowl tag. Although I haven't seen a repro "yet" with the correct notched corners, there are other indications to me that it's a repro. I should also mention that '64 SL cars did not change cowl tag styles completely at one point in production. I have examples of the 1st design being used after this tag.
Please don't overlook the obvious fact that it looks brand new.
I haven't even looked at all the other things others have pointed out. To me, the cowl tag is a deal breaker.
Verne



Verne, upon reflection, you are right that this tag is probably a repro. I need to pay more attention because this tag doesn't have the hand stamped number(s) on it and even though I only have 22 tags from St Louis in 64, they all have the hand stamped number. I don't have any 1st design tags after 3rd week Feb 64, but I do have have 2nd design tags after the date of this tag, but wasn't sure about the change over, especially when this tag is the 1965 style and it's too early for that in March.

It doesn't have the shiny look of a new repro tag, but this can be misleading, so I'll stand corrected on that.

Cheers, Carl.

1962 SS Impala Sports Coupe

http://s465.photobucket.com/albums/rr18/1956Carlo s...


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13870
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-13-18 07:45 AM - Post#2733852    
    In response to Carl1962

This is what you want to see on an old cowl tag. Dirty and dingy with built-up crud in the rivet holes. Not shiny and new looking.



1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1180
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
05-13-18 09:43 AM - Post#2733863    
    In response to rrausch

If you've ever tapped on a cowl tag with your fingernail, you can tell it's very thin soft aluminum. You can't strip the paint off of one with chemicals or a wire brush tightly around each character and have it look like the one on this car.

I'll have to look at the one on my SS to see if it has any stamped numbers. I'm almost sure it does not. I sent Vern several cowl tag pics and I'll have to look at those again. I think there was a St. Louis one in there.

Gas station signs get counterfeited too and can sell for $thousands. People who counterfeit signs, cowl tags, VIN tags or money don't need to read websites like this one to get better. Eventually they'll just look at enough originals and refine their methods to match them.

Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
Verne_Frantz 
61-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 5392
Verne_Frantz
Loc: Hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
05-13-18 11:13 AM - Post#2733869    
    In response to Brian64SS

  • Brian64SS Said:
If you've ever tapped on a cowl tag with your fingernail, you can tell it's very thin soft aluminum. You can't strip the paint off of one with chemicals or a wire brush tightly around each character and have it look like the one on this car.

I'll have to look at the one on my SS to see if it has any stamped numbers. I'm almost sure it does not. I sent Vern several cowl tag pics and I'll have to look at those again. I think there was a St. Louis one in there.

Gas station signs get counterfeited too and can sell for $thousands. People who counterfeit signs, cowl tags, VIN tags or money don't need to read websites like this one to get better. Eventually they'll just look at enough originals and refine their methods to match them.



That may be true to an extent, but I'd still rather not publish the faults on the repros. There is no doubt they are getting better, but why help them improve?

Verne



 
aryajet 
Poster
Posts: 11

Reg: 05-08-18
05-13-18 05:53 PM - Post#2733899    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

Thank you all once again for all of your contributions. I am still in the hunt and a lot of what I have rapidly learned recently is thanks to this forum.

I have not seen the car in person, but I would agree with some of the latter posts saying a repro cowl tag is a deal breaker.

I still intend on seeing it as maybe there is a story with the tag in the paper work, who knows. But I am leaning 90% towards a dead deal. I am consistently looking online and at regional auctions.

In the meantime if anyone here knows anyone or a car for sale, I would love to hear about it.



 
Brian64SS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1180
Brian64SS
Loc: Milwaukee, Wi
Reg: 09-30-00
05-13-18 06:19 PM - Post#2733906    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

Verne, I understand your decision and it's probably best. But there could come a time when providing the info to save buyers on CT from a mistake would outweigh the chance a counterfeiter will read your post and learn something they didn't already know.

Carl, My St. Louis '64 SS cowl tag might have something stamped below the P in PAINT but if it does, it's very faint.



Brian
1964 Impala SS, 283 (not original), 4-speed (26 years)
1964 Impala 4-door hardtop, 283 Powerglide (3 years)
They made a million but I only have two.


 
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