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Username Post: CS130 vs CS144 vs AD244 alternators        (Topic#349041)
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-06-18 07:11 PM - Post#2720283    

So i have been having alot of discussions with people about how to get more at idle amperage without spending $300+ on a audio competition grade alternator.

I have read way too many forum pages to remember them all or list them all, but the most reoccuring was the AD244 alternator upgrade + the Big3 upgrade (PS i think the big 3 upgrade should be done regardless just because that puny wire that comes stock)

But NOONE had any specs of the AD244, not a power curve chart, not idle amperage/voltage specs, nada.
I have found multiple CS130/D and CS144 charts showing the curve and the CS144 is pretty decent at around 65A @ idle of 600rpm x pulley ratio


the CS130D on my 6.5L TD puts out 31A at idle and tests on the carquest reman alternators confirm this.

The AD244 however puts out a wholloping 85-89A at idle on the tester, larger casing, larger bearings (atleast thats what ive read) and better heat dissipation

now going from the CS144 to the AD244 wouldnt be much of an idle gain but it would seem to keep a flatter power curve. but going from the CS130 to the AD244 nets you 50A more available at idle, thats a 160% increase or a little more than double.

I read a couple different users say that the AD244 will physically bolt right up to the 6.5L 5.7L and 4.3L but depending on year it might need the pigtail adapter or the correct one spliced on.

Also everyone that installed an AD244 reported that a slightly larger belt was needed because the pulley is physically in a new location



I just think that this is good info for people that want a more powerful alternator for running offroad lights, moderate sound systems, or just find the stock alternator keeps failing or just not keeping up.

CS130 had a max output of 105A at the end of its production and also seems to be the most common version of it.

CS144 was available in 108, 120 and 140A variations.

AD244 seems was available in 130 and 145A configurations, and to look it up at the parts store just tell them 02-04 Cadillac Escalade 5.3L or 6.0L, or just about any gm pickup 99-04 4.8,5.3,6.0 and 8.1 it was all available optional. I only looked up about 25 configurations while i was at the parts store tonight.


Everything i found except the rating of the AD244 is available on the internet with a little bit of searching. but i am hoping to find a place with a tester that i can take the AD244 and get a proper printout with the RPM and amperage marked, and not just printed test results

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
454cid 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2947

Age: 45
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
01-07-18 01:01 PM - Post#2720345    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

I've never had any problems with my stock CS144. I have the 120 or 140 version.... not sure. VIN says 120, but I replaced it with what may be a 140, when I was sure the bearings were going bad....ended up being the $16 idler pulley. The original is stored away in case the rebuilt alternator ever goes bad. I have 280K miles on the truck and the rebuilt alternator now has more miles on it than the original.

I'm not running a bunch of extra electrical devices, However.

99 K3500 RCLB


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-07-18 05:08 PM - Post#2720368    
    In response to 454cid

like i said the CS144 to AD244 isnt much of an upgrade, most gains are seen at idle with more available amperage, but those that have CS130/CS130D would see the most improvement.

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4070

Reg: 12-29-02
01-07-18 10:05 PM - Post#2720400    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Good info

A few things to note. You should give alternator rpm with any output data. The pulley ratio can be varied and that can really change the idle performance.

To continue with the above. You should be safe turning an alternator up to around 18,000 rpm. Stock applications typically don't reach this much rpm. This means you can usually change the pulley ratios to get more output at idle and not explode the alternator.

I'd have to guess that your 65A @ 600 rpm application is using a 2.5:1 pulley ratio because 65A happens right around 1500rpm on the 140A output curves I have seen. Well, you could change to a 3:1 pulley ratio and then you'd get about 85A out of the alternator and it should be very safe to do this if you only turn the engine up to around 5500 rpm.

A pulley might be a lot cheaper than a new AD244 alternator.



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-08-18 06:41 AM - Post#2720419    
    In response to 65_Impala

yes that would work on the CS144, but not the CS130(*D)....

If you change the pulley on the CS130D to a 3:1 @600RPM ( i know idle speed can vary) but using 600 as a baseline thats still only 48-50A at idle and your still limited to 105A total output.


I have seen a lot of people want to or recommend the CS144 alternator series as an upgrade to our CS130/D and I have learned that the AD244 is a better upgrade for the same price, new or used...

a 3:1 pulley on the AD244 might even get us closer to 100A at idle


If anyone actually is using over 100A at idle im sure they are already looking into the $300+ alternators anyway or running a dual or triple setup ha

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4070

Reg: 12-29-02
01-08-18 10:40 AM - Post#2720435    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

Well, it depends on the application. Going from 31A to 48A with a pulley change is a decent gain too. It might be enough to fix low voltage issues for some people while avoiding the change to a CS144 or AD144.

And yes, a pulley change could be made to a AD144 to increase it's idle output in certain applications.



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3718

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
01-08-18 12:16 PM - Post#2720445    
    In response to 65_Impala

Never have had anything with a CS130D, but I did do a CS-144 140a to AD-244 200a conversion on my Express van when I had Tahoe electric fans on it. HUGE difference in idle charging ability.

On my Napa 200a AD-244 test sheet.

Rotor RPM----Amperage
2,000-----------123
2,400-----------155
3,500-----------186
5,000-----------235
6,000-----------241

Alternator turn on speed was 1,296 rpm, just FWIW.

The CS-144s get HOT, especially near idle and in hot weather and when they heat up their output drops substantially. The AD-244 is setup to have much better cooling than the CS-144.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 01-08-18 12:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3718

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
01-08-18 12:29 PM - Post#2720447    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
like i said the CS144 to AD244 isnt much of an upgrade, most gains are seen at idle with more available amperage, but those that have CS130/CS130D would see the most improvement.



HUGE difference between a 140a CS-144 and a 200a AD-244 in my experience even keeping the same pulley ratio. The CS-144 was practically new and at 650 rpm idle could only charge at 12.2 volts with the cooling fans screaming (40a draw), both a/c units blasting on high, and the headlamps on (4-HI mod). The AD-244 held 13.7-13.8 volts at the same load. I am running over 100a amp draw on the system when everything is on.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 01-08-18 12:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4070

Reg: 12-29-02
01-08-18 06:32 PM - Post#2720493    
    In response to 1983G20Van

What vehicles came from the factory with the 200A AD244 alternator???



 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-08-18 08:19 PM - Post#2720505    
    In response to 1983G20Van

  • Quote:

HUGE difference between a 140a CS-144 and a 200a AD-244 in my experience even keeping the same pulley ratio. The CS-144 was practically new and at 650 rpm idle could only charge at 12.2 volts with the cooling fans screaming (40a draw), both a/c units blasting on high, and the headlamps on (4-HI mod). The AD-244 held 13.7-13.8 volts at the same load. I am running over 100a amp draw on the system when everything is on.



I would like to know what vehicles the 200A AD244 came stock on because i will just order that one up when the time comes, i was only aware of the 130A and 145A versions...

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3718

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
01-08-18 08:26 PM - Post#2720508    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

To my knowledge NOTHING comes stock with 200a but some 8.1s came stock with dual AD244 145a alternators.

Alternator below has been on my Express van since Spring 2013. Bolted in place of the CS-144, I disconnected the factory GM CS130D to CS144 adapter harness GM had plugged into the factory van harness and plugged the factory harness connector into it. The factory CS144 belt fit perfectly. Van already had the Big-3 upgrade. Only other modification was to remove the rear brace bracket for the CS144.

https://www.napaonline.com/p/NNE1N4807HO

My 1999 Tahoe has been upgraded from a CS144 that had shot bushings to a junkyard AD-244 as well. I run dual batteries in the 1999 on the factory 2nd tray.

1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 01-08-18 08:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-08-18 09:09 PM - Post#2720518    
    In response to 1983G20Van

well according to napa (on your link) the following vehicles match up to that part no or atleast its supposed to fit, idk if that means if you give the counter person one of these vehicles that the one you posted will just show up in the list


Cadillac Escalade 2002 - 2002
Cadillac Escalade EXT 2002 - 2002
Chevrolet Avalanche 1500 1/2 Ton 2002 - 2002
Chevrolet Avalanche 2500 3/4 Ton 2002 - 2002
Chevrolet C3500HD 1 Ton Truck 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1/2 Ton 2WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1/2 Ton 4WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 1500HD 1/2 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 2500 3/4 Ton 2WD - Pickup 2000 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 2500 3/4 Ton 4WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD 3/4 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Silverado 3500 1 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Suburban 1500 1/2 Ton 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Suburban 2500 3/4 Ton 2001 - 2002
Chevrolet Tahoe 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck C3500 1 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck C3500HD 1 Ton Truck 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 1500 1/2 Ton 2WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 1500 1/2 Ton 4WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 1500HD 1/2 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 2500 3/4 Ton 2WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 2500 3/4 Ton 4WD - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 2500HD 3/4 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Sierra 3500 1 Ton - Pickup 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Yukon 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Yukon XL 1/2 Ton 2001 - 2002
GMC Truck Yukon XL 3/4 Ton 2001 - 2002


Im gonna try later this week and see

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4070

Reg: 12-29-02
01-08-18 09:55 PM - Post#2720524    
    In response to 1983G20Van

So, you're comparing a stock CS144 vs an aftermarket AD244 specifically built to have a higher current output? No wonder that AD244 works that much better.



 
454cid 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2947

Age: 45
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
01-08-18 11:54 PM - Post#2720527    
    In response to 1983G20Van

  • 1983G20Van Said:

HUGE difference between a 140a CS-144 and a 200a AD-244...



I would hope you'd see a huge difference when you're buying an alternator that's modified from the original design to be high output and costs twice what the remaned cs144 does.


99 K3500 RCLB


 
454cid 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2947

Age: 45
Loc: West Michigan
Reg: 02-18-12
01-08-18 11:58 PM - Post#2720528    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
well according to napa (on your link) the following vehicles match up to that part no or atleast its supposed to fit, idk if that means if you give the counter person one of these vehicles that the one you posted will just show up in the list



NAPA offers high output versions of some of their alternators. I looked up my truck, and it looks like they offer a 155 amp cs130 for over $250, which I think is pointless. Only 15 amps over a cs144, but for twice the price.


99 K3500 RCLB


 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-09-18 09:09 PM - Post#2720636    
    In response to 65_Impala

For the record i was comparing stock for stock options that can bolt on. minus needing a 1" longer belt

1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
65_Impala 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4070

Reg: 12-29-02
01-10-18 08:03 AM - Post#2720672    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
For the record i was comparing stock for stock options that can bolt on. minus needing a 1" longer belt



Yes, I know you were. Others weren't.




 
1983G20Van 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 3718

Loc: Bedford, Texas, USA
Reg: 11-13-02
01-10-18 09:45 AM - Post#2720683    
    In response to MuddiGGer25

  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
For the record i was comparing stock for stock options that can bolt on. minus needing a 1" longer belt



I was simply giving you an option that bolts right on and offers substantial extra output over the other stock options for not much money. A High Output CS144 that makes about the same idle amperage runs about $400-500 in the aftermarket world. Considering you are getting a quality NEW part with the Napa number I gave vs a shoddy rebuild of a worn out high mileage factory part it is money well spent for peace of mind in my opinon. When I am on the open road, pulling the travel trailer, I do not like to break down!


1983 G20 Van, 350 TPI, Ported 906 Vortecs, Edelbrock 3817 Base, ASM oversize runners. Reed Custom Roller cam, 700r4, 12 bolt with 3.08 gears, Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers, true duals


Edited by 1983G20Van on 01-10-18 09:46 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MuddiGGer25 
Contributor
Posts: 197

Age: 28
Loc: Fargo ND
Reg: 01-25-16
01-10-18 05:00 PM - Post#2720711    
    In response to 1983G20Van

  • 1983G20Van Said:
  • MuddiGGer25 Said:
For the record i was comparing stock for stock options that can bolt on. minus needing a 1" longer belt



I was simply giving you an option that bolts right on and offers substantial extra output over the other stock options for not much money. A High Output CS144 that makes about the same idle amperage runs about $400-500 in the aftermarket world. Considering you are getting a quality NEW part with the Napa number I gave vs a shoddy rebuild of a worn out high mileage factory part it is money well spent for peace of mind in my opinon. When I am on the open road, pulling the travel trailer, I do not like to break down!







I am not arguing that is a good option alternator, and once i have more money I will probably consider it, I just wanted to start an informative post for people like me who may have severely limited funds for whatever reason and if thier only option is to go to a junkyard and yank an alternator to get them by, I thought shedding some light on a factory option that would bolt on with more power output (sometimes people only need the factory unit, other times they burn up the OEM one just because they have added lights and a radio/system and now exceeding what it can provide)


I have back and knee injuries that not even surgery can do anything for me other than just repair the damage to a point, so my work is limited throughout the year, im usually down for PT about 3-5 months out of the year, and on pain killers and muscle relaxers for the rest of it. this is the first job ive had ever making over $15/hr and the first since my back injury in 2009 that has been willing to work with me missing 1-4 hours here and there throughout the week because i cant walk to my bathroom let alone down the stairs and to the truck to get to work. Whats the point of me sharing this? because many other people have similar circumstances that limit what they can spend on thier vehicle and i always go for the most bang for the buck, around here you can find alot of the vehicles listed above with under 100K easy wrecked in yards, scrap yards, or posted online. at 100K or less it should still have 50-100K of useful life left in the alternator. (if it hasnt been abused of course, but most around here give you a 14,30 or 60 day exchange on used parts)


I still agree that the napa unit shown is a good alternative if your buying new, just not in my reality, atleast for a while


1994 T15 Jimmy 4.3LCPI/4L60E 170K 3.42s (DD)
1988 V20 Suburban W/1995 454TBI(32PSI)/4L80E/NP241 CA truck, 125K G80 14SF/ GM10 4.10's
1995 K1500 ECSB 5.7 TBI/4L60E, 3.73s 269K(wifes)
1996 K3500 ECLB DRW 6.5L TD 3.73's 198K (new project)



 
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