Gain extra benefits by becoming a Supporting Member Click here find out how!
Classic Performance Products Classic Parts
Ciadella InteriorsAmerican Auto Wire Classic Industries
Chevs of the 40sDanchuk Catalog
Hellwig Products IncPerformance Rod & CustomEcklers AutoMotive
Nu-Relics Power WindowsRain Gear Wiper Systems
Impala Bob's Bob's Chevy Trucks Bob's Chevelle Parts Bob's Classic Chevy



Username Post: Powerglide Transmission Adapter        (Topic#348489)
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
11-30-17 02:12 PM - Post#2716425    

well ran into an issue when I went to attach the trans to the engine. The trans is from a tri-five, my adapter is from my 54 Chevy 235. Things do not line up, do I need a different adapter. If yes, does anyone have one or know the part number I need? Every time I try to find part numbers in the online manual I just get more frustrated.

I have two for a tri-five V-8 but not the one I need I guess.

Thanks in advance



 

one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
11-30-17 03:28 PM - Post#2716436    
    In response to 100fires

I have an adapter from a 1956 235

Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
11-30-17 05:59 PM - Post#2716455    
    In response to one4dad

How much would you want for it? Can I see a picture so that I can compare it to what I currently have?

Thanks



 
one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
11-30-17 06:13 PM - Post#2716456    
    In response to 100fires

I'll get a few pictures tomorrow in the daylight. Any particular angle , etc that you want emphasis on.

Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
drtyler 
Contributor
Posts: 508

Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Reg: 05-06-10
11-30-17 06:16 PM - Post#2716457    
    In response to 100fires

here's the page in the -57 parts manual, 0.683 at bottom of page. It is the same for 50-57 with 6 cylinder. Part number is 3717218 but the adapter is cast with number 3836601.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/1929_57chevyp...

In the -54 parts manual, the part number is listed as 3695312 with casting number 3691671.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/parts/1929_54...



Edited by drtyler on 11-30-17 06:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
11-30-17 08:34 PM - Post#2716478    
    In response to one4dad

Any angle that would let me see the bolt location and starter opening.

Thanks



 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
11-30-17 09:19 PM - Post#2716484    
    In response to 100fires

I wonder if my problem is that there my be a trans for the 6 cylinder and one for the v8. When I bought it the seller confirm with the shop that it would work with my setup but now I am wondering if they took me for a ride. The case on my old trans looks different.

Can someone tell me if there are two transmission?



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27570
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
11-30-17 11:54 PM - Post#2716493    
    In response to 100fires

6 cylinder and V-8 cast iron powerglides have different bellhousings. Look at the starter clearance bulge from the front. It will be at about 10 o'clock on the 6 cyl and about 8 o'clock on the V-8. 6 cyl and V-8 PG adapters are also different on their rear face for the same reason.

Whoever sold you that trans owes you either a refund or another trans. He should also have his parts flipping permit revoked.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5395
56sedandelivery
Age: 66
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
12-01-17 01:15 AM - Post#2716496    
    In response to raycow

Have you made the conversion to an open driveline/rear end? A Tri-Five transmission is an open driveline setup, while 54 and older are enclosed/torque-tube setups. Sounds like there's some mismatch of parts going on, and someone selling parts just to sell them without having any real knowledge about what they're doing. I second Ray's sentiment. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4260
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-01-17 02:34 AM - Post#2716499    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

To further What Ray and Butch have said, 54 was the end of an era design in many ways, particularly the torque tube, however it was also the testing mule for what followed.
The thing about GM's numerical parts number system is it has one sacrosanct rule.

No two items that are not identical within the limits of design tolerance can have the same part number.

That said there may be some interchangeability, or supercession.

You may find if also if you get access to the parts drawing that some parts are revised multiple times through there life. However if they don't interchange with older versions a new number would be required.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
12-01-17 09:24 AM - Post#2716529    
    In response to one4dad

Here are some photos

Attachment: 7D21D026-49A1-4E3A-9B1D-51AB537008C4.jpeg (2.49 MB) 55 View(s)




Attachment: 0547B753-C73B-45AB-8AAE-1747017AB606.jpeg (3.6 MB) 54 View(s)




Attachment: 0CB7656E-5A64-4A78-9050-13B2DBF6CCF0.jpeg (1.87 MB) 58 View(s)




Attachment: 046ED1A7-F8DC-490C-BE75-56E8A3EBBCF6.jpeg (2.47 MB) 56 View(s)




Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
12-01-17 10:03 AM - Post#2716534    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I am in the process of switching to an open driveline, hence the purchase of the transmission. I have a rear end and driveshaft out of a Trifive.

I am going to sell the transmission noting clearly that it is for a V8. It is a rebuilt transmission that came out of a trailer queen. the guy switch over to a newer transmission with over-drive. He had a shop do all the work in fact I picked up the transmission at the shop. The info he gave me was what he was told by the shop. In hindsight, I think the shop was just trying to clear it out of the space. What is a fair price to ask for this transmission, adapter ring, flexplate? I want to be fair an I do not remember how much I paid, get old I guess but not wiser,based on my purchase.

I also have another powerglide from a Trifive, this one I would say need a rebuilt. It has a flexplate, adapter ring. The person I purchased the rear end from tossed it in with the purchase. what would be a fair price to ask for this one? it is also for a V8.

I am also going to sell the complete driveline that came out of the 54. This includes the rear end, torque tube, powerglide transmission, flexplate, adapter ring. What is a Fair price for these as a set or separate?

Lastly, can you knowledgeable gentlemen tell me what automatic transmission would be best and what part I would need to use it with my 261? I should add that I am still running a 6 volt system, would it be best to upgrade to 12 volt?



Thanks in advance



Edited by 100fires on 12-01-17 11:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
12-01-17 10:06 AM - Post#2716535    
    In response to one4dad

Thank you for the photos, but from my recent post you can see I have the wrong transmission. Therefore back to square one.



Edited by 100fires on 12-01-17 10:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
12-01-17 10:45 AM - Post#2716541    
    In response to 100fires

Ok

Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27570
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-01-17 12:37 PM - Post#2716555    
    In response to 100fires

  • 100fires Said:
.....Lastly, can you knowledgeable gentlemen tell me what automatic transmission would be best and what part I would need to use it with my 261? I should add that I am still running a 6 volt system, would it be best to upgrade to 12 volt?.....


As with most other things, "best" has to be in the mind of the beholder. Intended use of the car, performance, difficulty of installation, cost, and (for some builders) appearance are all determining actors.

A cast iron PG will be the easiest to install and will usually cost the least. Its major downside is that it has only two speeds, which could be a performance concern. Any 235 PG will bolt to a 261 without modification. 58-62 would be preferable to 55-57 because they have a pad for a rear mount, which the 55-57 does not. They are also a couple inches shorter than a 55-57, if that matters any. 6V and 12V starters will swap on the same adapter, but you must use a flexplate which matches your starter, because the tooth pitch is different. 6V flexplates have 139 teeth and 12V flexplates have 168, so they are easy to tell apart.

The only other automatic which will bolt to a 235 or 261 using factory parts is the 4 speed cast iron hydramatic. GM never installed these in Chevrolet passenger cars, but they were the normal automatic in light trucks. This trans offers a significant performance gain over a PG, but you pay a price for this gain in terms of cost, weight and complexity. You also gain bragging rights, because you will very likely have the only one at your show or cruise-in.

Any of the modern aluminum case automatics will require an aftermarket adapter plate in the $300 range. You have a fairly wide choice of 3 and 4 speed transmissions here, each with its own gang of loyal supporters. There is also a 2 speed aluminum PG, but I can't see any good reason to choose one unless you can get it for free. Even then, it will still be just as much work to install as a 3 or 4 speed. Any of these transmissions will require a 12V conversion because the adapter plate uses a starter which doesn't exist in a 6V version unless you have it custom built.

Deciding between 6V and 12V is mainly a matter of practicality. Do you live where you have real winter and need the car to start reliably 12 months out of the year? Do you want to add any 12V accessories like a modern audio system or GPS or improved lighting?

Since all of the above are my own personal opinions, I will add a last one: The "best" automatic is the one you never installed at all. In other words, go with a manual trans and learn to like shifting gears! See my signature for more.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
12-01-17 02:43 PM - Post#2716566    
    In response to raycow

Raycow,

I would agree a manual trans would be the easiest and more fun, but the car is for the wife. She would have a hard time with a manual trans and would most likely not drive it. Need to keep her happy.

any suggests on prices to ask for the parts?

Lastly, I spoke to a Transmission shop that was recommend at a local Hi-PO swapmeet. He has a 55 Chevy and a 41 Chevy, he recommended and early 700r4 modified to be non-locking. He said it works great in their cars. Any Thoughts? He said it would cost 1800 for the trans rebuilt I do not know if that is high or not.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4260
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-01-17 03:36 PM - Post#2716572    
    In response to 100fires

Hi 100fires, what sort of usage is it going to get. If she is just going to drive around town or does it involve some interstate stuff? Does open road economy matter?

If so, there is a smaller series of overdrive autos that are very popular behind the sixes.
I think they are the 200R series and later variants.

Also what about power steer and brakes, are they on the horizon for her needs as well?

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
rrausch 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 13844
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
12-01-17 03:37 PM - Post#2716573    
    In response to 100fires

Non locking? Lockup of the torque converter is a very good thing on an automatic.

1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
12-01-17 04:25 PM - Post#2716577    
    In response to 100fires

If you go with a th350 or 700r4 Etc , you will need an adapter . That adapter runs between $350 to $400 plus, flex plate starter, etc. langdons is an example of where to purchase, but there are other vendors out there that offer the adaptor
Bill

Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
12-01-17 04:33 PM - Post#2716578    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I would say mainly local driving with occasional interstate use (very occasional). Disc brakes yes, power steering down the road.

I will ask about the 200 series trans and compare prices.

Have a great weekend.



 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 27570
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
12-01-17 06:04 PM - Post#2716584    
    In response to 100fires

The 700 is one of the better automatics (if you must have an automatic) because it is a 4 speed with overdrive. Another similar choice is a 200-R4, which is somewhat smaller and lighter. These give you more gearing flexibility than a 3 speed if you plan on doing much highway driving. However, I strongly advise against modifying either one to be non-locking. The lockup is a plus, not a minus. GM isn't going to spend money on putting anything into the transmission which is bad for it. The only possible excuse for building a non-locking trans would be if you are using it for racing only. If this is the kind of transmission shop you are dealing with, find yourself another shop.

I really can't offer any pricing info, apart from the adapter plate, which is now $360 from this particular vendor (and there are two or three others).
http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/#!/Transmis...

As for the rest of the parts, there are just too many variables, especially if you are going to send out the work. The best you can do is ask if anyone here has installed one in a similar car and find out what total cost was.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
one4dad 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1425
one4dad
Age: 75
Loc: Baton Rouge La
Reg: 01-17-10
12-01-17 07:19 PM - Post#2716599    
    In response to raycow

Transmission about $1100 plus shipping, Adapter about $360 plus shipping, flex plate, starter about another $200 plus, shifter and fill tube from lokar about $400, rear end, approximately $500, drive shaft, (?), transmission support $200, rear springs $300, brake parts if your car is a 49 or 50 as the rear guck brakes can't be used on later model rear end.
Then there's labor, if you can't do it yourself


Bill Wilson 50 styleline deluxe 2 door sold,- 51 styleline Deluxe 2 door ,'56 235 with dual carter webers on an Offenhauser intake, Fenton headers, 56 chevy rear end and 700R4 transmission.


 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4260
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-17 12:34 AM - Post#2716617    
    In response to one4dad

Hi Ray, That's the series I was thinking of.(200R4)
It's basically the little brother of the 700R4. And a 261 in near stock tune won't hurt that at all. I assume you are not towing huge loads.

A lock up converter is the second part of the economy that these overdrive autos provide.
When your torque converter is unlocked it is multiplying torque but slipping like crazy and turning a lot of power into trans oil heat.
That's what you need to get moving, but once you are up and running and you are touring along in the high gears the unlocked torque converter is just lightly slipping and throwing away power.

Effectively it's like an ordinary clutch without enough pressure so it's slipping the whole time you are driving. Lock up converters are great on the road as they prevent light load high gear slippage. They stop being a torque converter and drive directly.

However they don't work for drag racing. What you need to factor in when someone talks of a high stall converter is what they are really saying is it has an intentionally high level of slippage. That it is intentionally very inefficient to allow higher engine rpm at stall or start.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
100fires 
Poster
Posts: 71
100fires
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, Ca
Reg: 04-15-15
12-02-17 09:20 AM - Post#2716636    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

I will be doing the install work. I would just have a shop doing anything with that requires working with the internals of the transmission. I think he was talk of re-working the internal to get rid of the need for wiring. Also read elsewhere about an ECM which controls the transmission shift points and lock up.

If anyone has done a change to these type of transmission what kinds of change did you have to make to accommodate for the lack of ECM?





 
Mike JW 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1312
Mike JW
Loc: Arroyo Grande, CA
Reg: 01-19-06
12-02-17 10:59 AM - Post#2716639    
    In response to 100fires

Bowtie Overdrive, I think they are in Hisperia, CA. has everthing you need. Check them out on line.



 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1051
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
12-02-17 03:49 PM - Post#2716662    
    In response to 100fires

There is no ECM control of ship points on the THM 700r4 that comes in on the later 460le. 700r4 shift points are by pressure, the only difference with a non lockup converter is the lockup you still have 4 gears. We are running a 2500 stall in the 700r4 we have in the 51 sedan i did last spring no ecm no wires and it runs great. You can bump the the shift points by adjusting the TV cable length.



 
Bel Air kiwi 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 4260
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
12-02-17 04:10 PM - Post#2716663    
    In response to cbmkr56

Hi CBMKR, you have to be careful playing with the TV control as if you go to far off the mark it will badly damage the transmission internals.
It's the biggest killer of these in retrofits and poorly serviced vehicles.

2500 stall is quite high for a road car, do you do a lot of stoplight racing?

Cheers Kiwi




48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

And when it was laid to waste, they called it peace.


 
cbmkr56 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1051
cbmkr56
Age: 62
Loc: Basehor Ks
Reg: 02-11-13
12-02-17 04:35 PM - Post#2716666    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Really, how many of these have you built or driven, The TV cable will screw up a lot of stuff if you are not familiar with the adjustment procedure. The 51 has a 010 350 block with a 2500-3500 stall requirement after the stall part you have to adjust the pressure to where and how you are driving it.
If someone has no idea what they are doing and you set the pressure to low you can cook the clutches real quick.
I have a factory
460 non ecm trans here also.



 

Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

999 Views
FusionBB
FusionBB™ Version 2.1
©2003-2006 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.334 seconds.   Total Queries: 14   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0800) Pacific. Current time is 05:56 PM
Top