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Username Post: engine swap...216 to 235        (Topic#347721)
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-17-17 04:50 PM - Post#2711178    

Bought a 50 Fleetline.....with a running (tired) engine....3 on the tree

Have a complete 60 Biscayne...235 with a three on the tree.....which is also running...and tired.

I realize that the 235 is the one to overhaul...not the 216.

As far as an engine swap goes....I've heard it's a simple one.....but want to stay 6 volt at this time.

Is this a bolt in?

Which clutch, flywheel, bellhousing and transmission should I use...?

Is the rear end from the Biscayne a good candidate for an open driveline swap?

Any input is appreciated.

formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 


wbeaton 
Contributor
Posts: 692
wbeaton
Age: 46
Loc: Hamilton, ON
Reg: 03-07-14
10-17-17 06:41 PM - Post#2711187    
    In response to MoboMac

The 235 is almost a drop in swap. You will need to drill the front plate of the motor under the timing cover to match your existing motor mounts. The water pump will need to be addressed as it will be too long and low. You can use an adapter to mount the earlier style pump or use a shortened water pump. Using the adapter allows you to use the original rad hoses. The throttle rod from the pedal must also be shortened. The 216 exhaust system is 1 7/8” whereas the 235 is 2”. This would be a good time to add dual exhaust and carbs. I think everything else should be a direct swap. The 1960 rearend can be modified to work with your 1950. It’s not the preferred rearend for the job, but it will do. If you use the 1960 transmission and want to stay 6V then you will need the 216 flywheel. However, this would be a good time to swap to 12V. Don’t use the 216 clutch behind the 235. The 1960 transmission mounts differently so you will need to make a new mount, as well. I’m sure there are some things I’m forgetting. Someone else will chime in.

1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 Door Sedan
1954 235 with Isky Cam, Shaved Head
Dual Carter YF 787S Carbs on Offenhauser Intake
Split Manifold Dual Exhaust
3 Speed with 3.55 Differential
12V Conversion with Alternator
Pertronix Ignition


 
kennys53 
Newbie
Posts: 25

Reg: 08-28-17
10-18-17 06:53 AM - Post#2711238    
    In response to wbeaton

When I did mine in a 51 it was easy I used the adaptor for the water pump and just drilled the bottom plate below the timing cover for the motor mount, I used the 51 belhousing and transmission so no changes there just a bolt on there. I did put dual exhust on at that time.



 
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-18-17 08:40 PM - Post#2711324    
    In response to kennys53

Thanks for the info.....

Where do we find the water pump adaptor?


formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 
kensluys 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1359
kensluys
Loc: Bellingham, WA, USA
Reg: 04-18-01
10-19-17 10:13 AM - Post#2711366    
    In response to MoboMac

Here's a link to the information posting done by the inventor. There is a link there to take you to his Ebay listing for the adaptor.

http://chev235guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Water%...

1951 Bel Air - January build date.


 
VANDENPLAS 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1788
VANDENPLAS
Age: 41
Loc: ontario canada
Reg: 07-29-09
10-19-17 10:28 AM - Post#2711367    
    In response to kensluys

The water pump adapters are available on e-bay
There is also a vendor on eBay that sells the brackets and mounts to use the side mounts on an early frame

" The chain in those handcuffs is made of high tensile steel. It will take you ten minutes to hack through it with this, if your lucky. You can hack through your ankle in fivei



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king 👑


 
56sedandelivery 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 5911
56sedandelivery
Age: 69
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
10-19-17 12:17 PM - Post#2711376    
    In response to kensluys

If it's not already, this "235" site should be tagged to the sticky forum. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
Bel Air kiwi 
DECEASED
Posts: 4558
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-19-17 01:25 PM - Post#2711391    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Hi Mobomac, If you are going with the late model engine flywheel and clutch plus gearbox, then it would be prudent to go 12V.
The 6V starter only works on the early ring-gear which fits the smaller flywheel and clutch on the 6V versions.

The small clutch is adequate for an early 216 but not really enough for the improved torque and power of a later 235. Particularly if you add some carbs and twin pipes.

If you rebuild the engine with more compression than stock, and modern fuels allow this, then you will need the extra power of 12V starting and ignition.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


 
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-19-17 01:26 PM - Post#2711392    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Thanks for everybodys input....

My plan is to get this car running and driving...without spending a ton of $$$.....Would really like to keep it somewhat original.....Kind of like a mid 60's hot rod.....as opposed to going the V-8 route with open driveline .

The dual carbs and dual exhaust.....will come later.....when and if the 235 gets freshened...

formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 
Bel Air kiwi 
DECEASED
Posts: 4558
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-19-17 03:32 PM - Post#2711408    
    In response to MoboMac

Hi Mobomac, If you wan't to stay six then two other options which are getting hard to find parts for are the 261 Engine which is a bolt in or the GMC from 270-302" which require some changes.

Also the next series six from Chevy in either 250 or 292 are relatively simple swaps as they do not interfere with the steering and handbrake. Big issue with a V8

The downside is they are not bolt in and are a bit longer. But their torque delivery and more modern design still suits the vehicle.

Cheers Kiwi


48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
10-20-17 02:29 PM - Post#2711519    
    In response to MoboMac

  • MoboMac Said:
......My plan is to get this car running and driving...without spending a ton of $$$.....Would really like to keep it somewhat original.....Kind of like a mid 60's hot rod.....as opposed to going the V-8 route with open driveline......


A stock 1960 engine will start reliably on 6V at "reasonable" temperatures. If you won't be depending on the car for daily transportation in serious winter weather, you can leave it running on 6V until you get into the engine modifications.

However, the starter/flywheel issue may need some clarification. When Chevy went from 6V to 12V in 1955, they changed the gear tooth pitch. This will be immediately obvious when you compare the flywheels side by side. If you are looking at only one of the flywheels, count the teeth. 6V has 139 and 12V has 168. The two gears are almost the same diameter, but the pitch difference means you can't use a 6V starter with a 12V flywheel or vice versa. Also, in case you were wondering, you can't install a 6V starter drive on a 12V starter. The reason will be evident when you compare the parts.

This starter incompatibility gets you into a clutch problem if you want to keep the 6V starter. As already mentioned, the stock 216 clutch is inadequate for a 235. GM tried it for one year (1953) and ran into problems, so the 1954 model got a completely new clutch. It consisted of the 10" pressure plate which had already been designed for the 1955 V-8 and a 9" or 9-1/2" disc. This setup was used on all subsequent 235s except for an 11" clutch which was used on some of the trucks and was optional on the passenger cars.

It is not practical to redrill the stock 216 flywheel for a larger clutch because the flywheel has a groove machined in its face just outboard of the stock disc diameter. Fortunately, better 6V flywheels exist that are intended for larger clutches, and any of those would be fine for your 235. There are two types. One is the 54 mentioned above which is a one-year-only part and may be somewhat difficult to find. The other was used on 3/4 ton and larger trucks from 1942 to 1953 and was optional on the 1/2 ton trucks. This truck flywheel is easy to spot because it has 9 bolt holes for the pressure plate.

Since you already have the complete 1960 clutch and flywheel, you have another option available which has a zero parts cost. It's not free though, because you will have to pay for some machine shop time. What you will be doing is installing the 6V ring gear on the 12V flywheel. The machine shop is needed because the 12V flywheel is slightly larger in diameter where the ring gear fits. That portion has to be turned to the same diameter as the 6V flywheel. I have done this modification several times and it works perfectly. The machine shop should know what to do, but if you need additional info, feel free to ask.

Ray


Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
2blu52 
Deceased Member RIP
Posts: 19549
2blu52
Loc: Montana
Reg: 03-12-02
10-21-17 04:08 AM - Post#2711567    
    In response to raycow

Absolutely the best explanation I have read. I will never need the information but a copy will go in my files.

"PEACE IS THAT GLORIOUS MOMENT IN HISTORY WHEN EVERY ONE STANDS AROUND RELOADING"

THOMAS JEFFERSON


 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
10-21-17 08:29 AM - Post#2711592    
    In response to 2blu52

2blu, thank you for the compliment.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-22-17 05:55 PM - Post#2711749    
    In response to raycow

Great info.. Thanks

I'll be machining the 12 volt flywheel....for the 6 volt ring gear.

Have a friend that can do that for me.

formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 
Bel Air kiwi 
DECEASED
Posts: 4558
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-22-17 11:04 PM - Post#2711775    
    In response to MoboMac

Hi Mobomac, If you are keen to stay 6V then you can follow the flywheel machining route for fitting an early ring gear on the later flywheel.
However if you don't have access to a competent machinist to do this then converting the car to 12V is a more viable option.

Also later model 235 are slightly higher compression than the early 216, and may demand more of the starter.

You do have the option of going either way however if you go 12V then you can expect better lights, ignition, starting, and more readily available parts in the event of a breakdown.
eg. Batteries, Coils, bulbs, etc.

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 10-22-17 11:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-23-17 03:50 AM - Post#2711783    
    In response to MoboMac

I'll be totally OK....with 6 volt...in this car...for it's intended usage...

From 2000 to 2007....I ran a 55 R-102 International for about 70,000 miles.....as a daily driver....Black Diamond ohv 240....with a three on the tree.......

I DID convert to 8 volt....which was far simpler than a 12 volt conversion.....From a stock perspective....a 6-8 volt system does the job well...I ended up changing out the vacuum wipers to an American Bosch dual drive 6 volt system...which was a big improvement over the vacuum system.....It rains ALOT here

Speaking of which.....Any recommendations for rebuilding the vacuum motor in my 50?

formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 
Bel Air kiwi 
DECEASED
Posts: 4558
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
10-24-17 12:49 AM - Post#2711903    
    In response to MoboMac

Hi Mobomac, are you referring to the drive motor up in the dash or do you have the very rare Delco 6V booster vacuum pump as well?

Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


Edited by Bel Air kiwi on 10-24-17 12:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MoboMac 
Contributor
Posts: 412
MoboMac
Reg: 08-22-11
10-25-17 04:54 AM - Post#2712079    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

Nothing rare...or fancy...just the stock wiper motor

formerly Cameo Coral.....now appearing as MoboMac

Franks 59....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UokRArv4eSo

This car and vid is ART!

Turn it up & go full screen....


 


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