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Username Post: Possible restomod application of a 1962        (Topic#338406)
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-18-16 10:19 AM - Post#2646404    

I am contemplating purchase of a 62 . The body needs tic, a frame that could be replaced or repaired. The price is reasonable, like I need another car. Not buying to flip for a profit. ( It is currently not on the market and the owner is moving out of state, She wants me to pick it up and sell . ) I will buy to build .... or let out the information to a few local gear heads. I am contemplating a late model fuel injection with a computer controlled automatic. The suspension choices are endless and wider rear fenders or mini tubs will give the wider tire preference I desire.
The first question is what do restomoders do for a vin location? The original steering column will be substituted for an after market tilt and telescope unit. The vin location would be the first hurdle . I want to be law compatible .
What are the best choices besides a state assigned number ?
OR forget the foolishness and rebuild to old school production .



 




wagonmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 8910
wagonmaster
Age: 70
Loc: Loganville, Ga.
Reg: 04-28-00
08-19-16 04:59 AM - Post#2646538    
    In response to stingray caretaker

'62s make a WONDERFUL resto mod! They are among the sharpest C1s IMHO. Guys checking vins on these older cars usually don't have a clue where they are located. Under the dash on a visible support or inside the door jamb would work, I believe.
Good luck whichever way you decide!!

Hey T @!


In Memory of Mike McVeigh- The "Mad Spring Wacker" He roams the Forums of CT forever in our hearts and minds!

http://www.picturetrail.com/wagonmaster55

Joe


 
fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1921

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
08-19-16 11:36 PM - Post#2646705    
    In response to wagonmaster

AS one who actually had a brand new '62 FI 360/327 Corvette, I do not understnad "restomodding" one of them. It destroys the character of the car.
i love the big wheel and no P/S, the kingpan suspension, 4.11 Posi gears. I can still smell the new car smell of that car. I have no problem dropping a crate motor into one, and even a 5 or 6 speed trans but in my opinion only women, posers, and handicapped people bought automatic C-1's. My girlfriend drove a '60 230 PG car. I think you can drop in a late model roller lifter, EFI or even carb'd motor into it without ruining the experience of having a '62. They don't need disc brakes.
I have a friend who is rebuilding his dad's '62 right now. He has the crate motor, but the rest will remain rebuilt stock.
To me, the idea of having a c-1, and I have had 2 FI 4-speeds, is the experience of driving a c-1.
If one wants a pcm contolled automatic OD and a modern setup. why not just buy a newer car?
Sorry for the rant, but I feel this very. strongly about c-1's in particular. I wish I still had one. Good luck with your project.











Jim B.


 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-20-16 07:35 AM - Post#2646732    
    In response to fbi9c1

I can understand where your coming from. Long time C-1 owner. Never enjoyed the ride, handling , or the power to weight ratio. Yes 50-60s nostalgia resides in the positive column. Having bone stock varieties including a factory big brake FI this new venture provides a basis for modern power and ease of driving while reliving the classic lines. Mini tubs will hide a wider rear tire which it desperately needs. I would purchase a C-7 but too many computers and the lack of interior space prohibits this.
EFI power, automatic transmission , power steering , and a set of radials will transform this cruiser into a family car anyone can drive with confidence and reliability. Having a " factory correct " disposition, .... this nudges one out of the tunnel vision perception into a configuration of what could have been. No one except the die hard museum collector will know the difference. My generation is on the side line with old ideas and proven concepts of the day. Change is good in most instances.




 
bowtiefan 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 2301
bowtiefan
Loc: Vacaville, CA
Reg: 02-19-04
08-20-16 08:30 AM - Post#2646741    
    In response to stingray caretaker

We've got Corvettes from every generation, so I can make a good comparison. We've been across country twice in the '61, twice in the '07 Z06 and I drove the '16 Z06 back from Bowling Green. Truth be told, they were all great trips, but as the cars got newer, the ride got better of course. I must admit though, driving Route 66 and the Lincoln Hwy in the '61 was probably the most fun. The old car on the old roads just can't be beat. My '61 has a crate 350, Tremec 5 spd, a/c, new radio and radials. I really don't think it rides bad and in fact, my wife has a bad back and it doesn't bother her. Also, even though the cockpit of the C7 is a little more snug than the '61, you can carry just as much stuff in the C7 coupe as the '61. The convertible, not so much. I would like to restomod my wife's '57 but she won't let me. Good luck with your project. I know you will love it when you are done.
Ken

36, 38 & 39 2dr sedan, 41 coupe, 54 convertible, 56 Nomad, 57 210 2dr sdn, 70 Camaro RS, Corvettes; 57, 61, 65 396 coupe, 67 427 convert, 72 T-top, 88 coupe,91 ZR-1, 07 Z06, 16 Z06, 07 Silverado, 09 BMW 135i vert.
http://www.picturetrail.com/ken


 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-20-16 11:51 AM - Post#2646759    
    In response to bowtiefan

I like to pre plan and buy parts ahead of time. The problem is it will be waiting in line for a while. The wife's original paint 75 convertible needs updates ( which I hear frequently ) and 3 others are in line so this new youngster will be here for a while, fate unknown at this moment. Needless to say I love old cars and their problems.
If the mid engine model has a larger control center and not priced out of this world I could for see a garage sale to make room. Just the thought of a mid engine marvel makes one drool with anticipation. Never owned a new Corvette. What an experience to have one needing nothing but fuel and an open road.



 
fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1921

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
08-22-16 02:33 PM - Post#2647066    
    In response to stingray caretaker

I really am on a different planet and generation than you guys. I find it laughable that anyone would even discuss how a Corvette "rides." I'll shut up as we clearly are of different worlds.

Jim B.


 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-23-16 05:51 AM - Post#2647162    
    In response to fbi9c1

Would you wear clothing six sizes too small, shoes that were uncomfortable, or a wool jacket in 100 degree heat ?
Some of us like to drive rather than own a museum. You may not be aware of anything other than a " floating cloud " electronically dampened suspension. Many of us are from the " king pin " era which you obviously do not understand.
Yes, a three hundred mile drive in a stock C-1 may require frequent stops . Love old cars but comfort can be an issue.
Sorry you can't relate.



 
ptjsk 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 332
ptjsk
Loc: Northern California
Reg: 05-30-08
08-23-16 08:02 PM - Post#2647302    
    In response to stingray caretaker

Yep! I love my old Vette! Kingpins and all!

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ptjsk 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 332
ptjsk
Loc: Northern California
Reg: 05-30-08
08-23-16 08:14 PM - Post#2647306    
    In response to stingray caretaker

I did do this to the rear though! I wanted to get wider tires and rims, and I really didn't want to tub it, or widen the fenders. Not that that's a bad thing though.

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fbi9c1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1921

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 08-07-07
08-23-16 11:07 PM - Post#2647324    
    In response to ptjsk

I will add this. The C1's were quite limited in production compared to C-4 -up. I used to know the exact numbers but I am not going to recall them now, but most years were less than 10,000 IIRC.
I have a friend who owns several real Cobra's, not Mustang versions or Cobra kits, the sports cars. He was at the Monterey historics with one this past week and races and drives the cars. None of them have different steering wheels, power steering or A/C installed, Mustang chasses, Cammer crate engnes in place of the 260's or 289's, or OD automatics installed. I'll bet they don't ride too smoothly either. Hmm...wonder why... Given that, I see no reason to screw with the remaining C-1's that may have survived. Just sayin....
This is sort of the reason I would rather have a Viper than any of the post C-3 Vettes. It's a different mindset.

Jim B.


 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-23-16 11:55 PM - Post#2647331    
    In response to ptjsk

Ok, I can see a 4-link, but how did that give you the clearance to run wider tires without a tub or fender job?

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-24-16 08:55 AM - Post#2647398    
    In response to fbi9c1

  • fbi9c1 Said:
I will add this.
I would rather have a Viper than any of the post C-3 Vettes. It's a different mindset.



Totally agree. This is the C-1 forum where we look for solutions , ideas, and ways to make our favorite classic leap ahead in technology ( or remain original, pristine, and a classic time capsule ).
I have some original cars including a C-2 big block coupe and a 60 FI big brake . One doesn't mess with this situation, just enjoy as these examples are few and far between.
On the other hand if one comes across a C-1 that has a non original drive train, non correct door panels, and a few body flaws ........ its a great opportunity to complete an example of a driver selecting a few favorite components. Many owners have gone this route. I am a fan of experience. Details learned from others greatly enhance a build of this nature. For me its not an over night transformation but a planned route with part acquisitions along the way, Maybe substitutions dictated by price, quality, and ease of assembly.
While I can admire your new C-1 purchases it was too early for some to experience. ( I could have driven one to grade school, ... maybe with a booster seat )
As for the desire of a Viper, .......... I can't even give them a second look. Zero interest from my point of view. Chevrolet spend decades developing the Corvette into the classic it has become. It commands respect on and off the track by millions of admirers.
Chrysler threw together a competitor model expecting instant rave reviews. In the Pentastar crowd it didn't exceed the production numbers expected.
Call me unusual or weird but I frequently position myself near certain cars just to hear spectators expressions. A best seller could be written on comments alone including very detailed facts to obviously far reaching rumors or beliefs. Hard to believe some think it is a foreign make while others believe its a concept car.
Getting back to ptjsk's beautiful C-1, .... Could the axle tubes have been cut and shortened ? I doubt if the labor and materials involved would justify the few inches it would provide. I have also seen the frame rails moved in slightly providing a better range of space. What ever he completed it looks great and probably solved the problem involved. Who ever performed the updates to the suspension, they are very skilled professionals. Experience from prior builds, priceless !



 
ptjsk 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 332
ptjsk
Loc: Northern California
Reg: 05-30-08
08-24-16 02:21 PM - Post#2647461    
    In response to raycow

Actually, by removing the original leaf springs, and their mounting system. I was able to gain approximately 2" more tire width.

I have 15" x 9" Wheels, with 10" wide MT Sportsman's radial tires.

Additionally, I mocked up, and mocked up, and...you get the message the entire rear assembly prior to final welding and fabrication.

I utilized an 8 & 3/4" rear, added disc brakes and cut both axles (and housing) as required.

I did have to modify the brake mounting system as well.

In the end, the tires fit under the wheel-wells, and I have about a 1/4" to spare on the inside before it hits the inner fender wells.

As far as the cost benefit goes.....I guess that all depends on your prospective. It was very costly for the additional 2", but I'm still glad I did it. And the side benefit of the 4 link actually hooking up is very nice!

I too don't get very excited with a Viper. They are pretty cool, but just not enough "appeal" to me to purchase one.

I'm sure some people would consider me an old relic by sticking with some of the old items that I built into this car. But I'm still a fan of the old school builds and I hope the car exhibits that.

Fortunately, there's something for everybody and each can have their personal taste.

Here's a shot of the wheels under the body!

Good luck to all (with everybody's), cars and projects!

Also, Stingray Caretaker, thanks a lot for the nice comments about the car!

Pat

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Attachment: 20151209_075015.jpg (3.31 MB) 99 View(s)






Edited by ptjsk on 08-24-16 02:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
08-26-16 03:40 AM - Post#2647736    
    In response to ptjsk

Thank you for your detailed explanation, and also for clearing up what kind of rear axle you used. When I saw the round center section, I was thinking Olds or Pontiac, which seemed like overkill. Mopar makes a lot more sense.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-26-16 06:28 AM - Post#2647760    
    In response to raycow

Is there more to axle selection than past favorite selections ? I would not go to a twelve bolt for sheer strength. I would favor a positraction unit that has a proven past & popular replacement parts. Track or drag racing application would require specialty parts.
I like the adjustability built into this system. Was the upper support reinforced or replaced with a stronger application ?
I wish to retain the solid axle, lose the springs, and not be hung up on disk brakes. Front discs would be a consideration due to the fact of the change in A arm configuration plus a rack and pinion steering.
Rather than reinvent the wheel I plan to pick up others engineering skills to make a system I am comfortable with. This is going to be a fun car with smiles to who ever is handed the keys.
Please keep the enhancements coming.



Edited by stingray caretaker on 08-26-16 06:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Sting Ray 
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2898
Sting Ray
Loc: Drag City, California
Reg: 02-19-05
08-28-16 10:12 AM - Post#2648211    
    In response to ptjsk

Saw your '62 yesterday at Pleasanton, looks great. I hung around for awhile off chance of you showing up. So many cars there I had to move on.

Bleeds Chevy Orange

1957 Chevy 150, 3-spd
1964 Corvette two top convert, 4-spd
1965 Pontiac GTO hrdtp, tri-power, 4-spd, 4.11's
1967 El Camino, 427, 4-spd
2009 Corvette coupe, triple black, 436 hp, 6-spd


 
cbernhardt 
Senior Member
Posts: 561
cbernhardt
Loc: Lexington,NC
Reg: 08-28-00
08-29-16 04:34 AM - Post#2648352    
    In response to stingray caretaker

  • stingray caretaker Said:
Is there more to axle selection than past favorite selections ? I would not go to a twelve bolt for sheer strength. I would favor a positraction unit that has a proven past & popular replacement parts. Track or drag racing application would require specialty parts.
I like the adjustability built into this system. Was the upper support reinforced or replaced with a stronger application ?
I wish to retain the solid axle, lose the springs, and not be hung up on disk brakes. Front discs would be a consideration due to the fact of the change in A arm configuration plus a rack and pinion steering.
Rather than reinvent the wheel I plan to pick up others engineering skills to make a system I am comfortable with. This is going to be a fun car with smiles to who ever is handed the keys.
Please keep the enhancements coming.



I have owned a '62 Top Flight car and currently have a '62 and a '59, both of which have C4 suspension and other modern conveniences. My wife and I just returned from Corvettes@Carlisle, driving the '62 about 900 miles round trip. We are both getting older so we appreciate the smoother ride and power steering, brakes and air conditioning. I know you stated that you want to retain the solid axle, but if you are going to replace the frame, why not get one that allows you to use the C4 suspension?




Edited by cbernhardt on 08-29-16 04:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-29-16 07:04 AM - Post#2648372    
    In response to cbernhardt

Charlie;
I finished reading your 59-62 builds late last night. Was going to E Mail you to give the proverbial pat on the back. Had no idea you were so talented. I know my way around metal ( welding, cutting, fitting, and of course the never ending grinding, smoothing , procedures ) but have never played with fiber glass repair. Maybe being spoiled with no hit cars had my luck on the positive side.
I never felt comfortable with the half shaft design. Replacing bearings in the trailing arms created an impression of too many places to find movement side to side. Old habits are hard to break, the reason for the two solid axle cars I have.
Like yourself, I tend to look at a better suspension set up as well as power steering and an automatic transmission for this application. My wife would love to share the left seat and not fond of manual gear changes. Her 75 convertible is an automatic and the only one she will drive with confidence.
I am intrigued with the four link detailed in this post. I will investigate this alternative as I believe I can retain the solid axle and still have an adjustible reliable suspension.
That being said I have damage on the passenger side rocker panel. The repair looks to be mostly bondo. It will have to be taken down to glass and start over to create a proper repair. Old school power, the 327, will be built to satisfaction. Not concerned with ac at this point. Hope to pick up a few pointers with the glass work as well.
Great build pictures, explanations and sharing your perspectives.
The reason I am attracted to this forum is the lack of " numbers and NCRS " participants. Up and running, back on the road, stock or modified, they are available for all to enjoy.





 
Bel Air kiwi 
Deceased Member RIP
Posts: 4558
Bel Air kiwi
Loc: New Zealand
Reg: 04-24-14
08-30-16 02:21 AM - Post#2648561    
    In response to fbi9c1

Hi, I think you will find a real Cobra is worth a very large wad of cash and was built as a racing homologation special. That said it will start stop and turn in a way that no early generation Vette ever will. Half of the C1 drive-train was sourced from the prewar parts bin, and a lot of it is interchangeable with Pick up truck parts.
It was still a legend in its time, but nothing about it compares to modern standards of drive-ability and comfort. Some are happy to keep them that way, others want them more usable.
Cheers Kiwi

48 3100 RHD, 51 Deluxe 4DR RHD, 51 Bel Air parts car, 52 Bel Air P-Glide LHD. Others 23T, 32 Tudor, 58 Edsel pacer 4DR HDT, 79 F250 351C RHD. 69,70,82 Capri. No mobile, no TV, and no Jap cars.

"They made a desert and called it peace." Tacitus


 
ptjsk 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 332
ptjsk
Loc: Northern California
Reg: 05-30-08
08-30-16 06:31 AM - Post#2648595    
    In response to Sting Ray

Darn! Sorry I missed you.

What a crazy show huh? Thousands of some very nice cars.

Shoot me a PM if you ever come up towards Placerville area.

Pat



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
08-30-16 06:42 AM - Post#2648598    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
Hi, I think you will find a real Cobra is worth a very large wad of cash and was built as a racing homologation special. That said it will start stop and turn in a way that no early generation Vette ever will. Half of the C1 drive-train was sourced from the prewar parts bin, and a lot of it is interchangeable with Pick up truck parts.
It was still a legend in its time, but nothing about it compares to modern standards of drive-ability and comfort. Some are happy to keep them that way, others want them more usable.
Cheers Kiwi



Maybe my source of materials is bad. From what I read the Cobra started with an English AC Bristol body with Shelby adding a Ford V8. Original four cylinder components in the suspension / drive train were replaced with higher quality pieces. The " racing " component most valuable was the light aluminum body which put the car at a great weight advantage. Due to low production figures the originals are worth their weight in gold to true Ford enthusiasts . They were never " engineered race cars " from their humble beginnings. The GT40 is in this category .
A manufactured 60s automobile can not be compared to todays standards fifty plus years later. EPA , crash , and platform engineering standards have raised the bar on quality and safety. The process of interchanged parts from one model to the next keeps tooling costs to a level buyers can afford. One doesn't have to reinvent the wheel with every make / model / function to build a suitable saleable product of transportation.
For a $3500 dollar 60s Corvette I would assume they are priced very reasonable in todays New Zealand market. The cars I see taking the ship ride are 50k plus. The demand is constant as foreign dealers are always looking to add to their sales inventory. Not bad for a " parts bin combination " . The MGs, Triumphs, Austin Healeys of the day that patterned this " sports car " category were basic transportation of English descent. The racing homologation you speak of was largely developed by race teams with some factory support. Their slice of the pie was " win on Sunday, sell on Monday ".
Yes, many of us in the US treasure these old " has beens " in original and updated versions. The body style is a timeless classic design. One saving grace, they were produced in great numbers for many to enjoy . They don't write songs about Volvos, ........ do they .



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
09-25-16 05:20 PM - Post#2653256    
    In response to stingray caretaker

For those of you using C-4 / C-5 components, ......... Has anyone converted a C-3 frame to accept the pieces ? I have read some have converted a C-3 frame to use the stock C-1 parts due to rust or frame damage. Just seems the expensive replacement frames plus adding the required pieces adds a lot to the total. It all goes back to miles driven for the time / expense incurred. I have a nice southern C-1 frame. As soon as I sell it I know I will find a project needing a good replacement frame. As I am looking for early 60s parts be it Corvette or Belair the field is getting smaller and the prices if you can find them higher. Seems like some have a part time job gathering cheap local parts. The computer helps them cash in. I have purchased parts from guys that have never owned these cars. They know there is still a demand even though reproductions are available.



 
stingray caretaker 
Contributor
Posts: 431

Loc: Midwest
Reg: 11-19-12
10-02-16 06:58 AM - Post#2654445    
    In response to stingray caretaker

Well, it is definitely in my garage off visitor status joining the fleet. For this winter the plan is to get the body straight, fix the passenger door sill. Appearance wise it looks ok but a view from under the body shows a mixture of filler and possibly kitty hair to cover damage. Hopefully when ground down a fiberglass repair is present. A small amount of caution should prevent a crack that is present. Many of these old hot rods travelled some bumpy, dusty trails in their past with an occasional crash. Salvage cars quickly disappeared only to be picked apart piece by piece to the highest bidder. It quickly turned into a world market with the internet dispersing them.
I would never personally sell a vehicle knowing it would be sent across the ocean. Its like selling your history, your very DNA of American transportation for the extra dollars involved. For many its a part time profession. My small corner of the world wants to remain in the USA for generations to enjoy.



 
rrausch 
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 14051
rrausch
Loc: L.A, Cal. & St. Louis...
Reg: 04-07-03
05-24-17 03:49 PM - Post#2692716    
    In response to Bel Air kiwi

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
..............Half of the C1 drive-train was sourced from the prewar parts bin, and a lot of it is interchangeable with Pick up truck parts....



You been hittin' the fermented kiwi juice again B.A. Kiwi? I thought I warned you about that. The front suspension is '49-'54 Chevy passenger car with some upgrades. The 3-speed and PG's were post WW2. And even the '53 Corvettes had an open rear-end. Which parts, exactly, are interchangeable with a pick-up? None as far as I know.

  • Bel Air kiwi Said:
....It was still a legend in its time, but nothing about it compares to modern standards of drive-ability and comfort.......



People who want comfort should stay at home in their easy chairs. Some of us like that old feel-the-road-in-yer-azz and in the steering wheel.


1953 210 Convertible, 261 with dual Carter YF 966S carbs, P.S., Remote Bendix P.B. Booster... shade-tree restoration about done.




 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
05-25-17 11:29 PM - Post#2692969    
    In response to rrausch

Robert, there is actually a little bit of truth in what Kiwi is saying.

The 53-55 Corvette rear axle has nothing in common with later Chevy rears. It was derived from the passenger car (NOT pickup truck) torque tube rear, which goes back to 1937. A new open drive center section was designed for it, which will also bolt into any of the 37-up torque tube car axle housings.

All of the center section internal parts are the same as in 50-54 PG cars except the pinion and pinion seal. Axle shafts, bearings and seals are the same as 51-54. The axle housing has normal welded-on spring pads instead of the swivel mounts used on the torque tube housings.

So Kiwi was correct when he said pre-war, but only with regard to the rear end design.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 




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