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Username Post: P.A.T. project thread - '56 210 HT        (Topic#337566)
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-18-16 10:24 AM - Post#2640411    

What is P.A.T, you ask? 'Polishing A Turd'...

This is going to hopefully be a good ol'fashioned project thread to help keep me motivated and maybe give you some snickers along the way.

Quick background: I've owned this car since '06 and well... I was ignorant & blind to some things when I purchased it - mia culpa. The p.o. made some poor and cheap choices that I have battled against, that are documented in a few prior threads here on CT. Out of frustration, I stepped away from working on the car in fall 2012 only to reimmerse myself in one of my other hobbies. It's now time to get this beast running decently & dependably so I can enjoy it. Starting in early August, I will have a lot of time to fill for a few months, so I will really be getting after it.

Here is a Link to pre-project photos, I took this weekend. I've already started getting things ready for...

Phase 1 Projects
*Paint firewall & front splash pan (body color) and inner fenders, front frame, etc (black) to clean up very grungy engine compartment.
*level engine on side mounts I installed in '06 (and managed to not get level )
*Pull motor for new cam & heads, and intake & carb swap.
*Reseal (as needed) very leaky TH400 and change from very tight '67 bigblock torque converter to a 2000-ish rpm converter (to match cam swap). This is to buy me a year or so before an overdrive swap.

This is all to get the car driveable so I can enjoy it the remainder of this year.

Part of my inability to get started on all this has been a shortage of some tools, knowledge, experience and confidence. I've been working at overcoming each, but it's time to put up or shut as I'm not getting any younger.

So, I'll be asking a number of questions along the way - some likely dumb or misinformed. Some I've already answered using the CT search function, but some answers are harder to come by.

So, first Question of the Day (QOTD): I plan to pull the engine & tranny together after I level up the engine/mounts. If I leave the slip yoke on the driveshaft will I spew tranny fluid all over the floor? I can drain the tranny first, if that will help.

Thanks for reading all that,

Gotta56forme/Scott

disclaimer: my photohosting site 'OneDrive' (Hotmail) doesn't play nice with CT software, hence the album link above.

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
Ecklers AutoMotive
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-18-16 10:25 AM - Post#2640412    
    In response to gotta56forme

Other projects to come are...

Phase 2 - posi a 3.70 diff and replace 3.55 open.
Phase 3 - TH200-4r swap (already have)
Phase 4 - Doug's Tri-Y header swap (already have)
Phase 5 - metal repair (floor and dash)
Phase 6 - rewire with AAW kit (already have)
Phase 7 - get full interior back in the car
Phase 8 - wet sand never cut 20yo paint job (poor)

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
Jims56chevy 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2442
Jims56chevy
Age: 65
Loc: chino valley az
Reg: 11-23-04
07-18-16 10:32 AM - Post#2640415    
    In response to gotta56forme

So, first Question of the Day (QOTD): I plan to pull the engine & tranny together after I level up the engine/mounts. If I leave the slip yoke on the driveshaft will I spew tranny fluid all over the floor? I can drain the tranny first, if that will help.


Yes you will. Also,i would keep the 3:70 rear gear.

56 210 2dr


Edited by Jims56chevy on 07-18-16 10:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-18-16 10:39 AM - Post#2640417    
    In response to Jims56chevy

Thanks for the reply, Jim. If I drop the pan on the tranny and drain it first... will I still leak tranny fluid all over if I pull the engine & trans together?

Currently the 3.55 open is in the car. I have a nice open 3.70 that I'm going to change to an aftermarket Eaton posi, per DZAUTO's postings.

Scott/Gotta56forme

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
498 chevy 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 474
498 chevy
Age: 68
Loc: hayward ca.
Reg: 09-28-07
07-18-16 02:28 PM - Post#2640458    
    In response to gotta56forme

this sounds awful familiar to me about getting organized. thanks for the up lift.

http://www.picturetrail.com/webe


 
raycow 
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
raycow
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
07-19-16 08:38 AM - Post#2640605    
    In response to gotta56forme

Depending on the angle of the trans, you MAY lose some fluid out of the rear even if you drain the pan first. Either insert a spare yoke if you have one or else tie a plastic bag over the end of the tail housing.

Ray

Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive.


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-19-16 10:00 AM - Post#2640621    
    In response to raycow

Raycow,

Thanks for the reply. I'll go ahead and drain the pan, and put a bag on the tailshaft when I pull it - I don't have any spare slip yokes.

Gotta56forme/Scott



Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
sam 15 
Contributor
Posts: 309
sam 15
Loc: Palm Desert Cali
Reg: 10-24-09
07-20-16 05:31 AM - Post#2640778    
    In response to gotta56forme

I have used the bag method several times...fluid always ended up on the floor...maybe just my clumsiness...get a set of these...no more trans fluid on the floor...cheap and works great.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Transmission-Ta il-Shaft-...


'55 210 work in progress
'62 Bel Air 9 Passenger Wagon (sold)
'64 Corvair drop top (sold)
'31 Ford coupe (sold)
'64 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 (sold)
'66 Chevelle SS (sold)
'64 GTO (sold)




 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-20-16 01:08 PM - Post#2640857    
    In response to sam 15

Thanks for the link, Sam 15. I'll give those some consideration.

QOTD#2: When I remove the fenders, inner fenders, radiator support and splashpan... should I be able do it without having to cut (& resplice) electrical connections, or is some cutting unavoidable, in your experience?

Since there doesn't seem to be splice joints from the factory, I'm assuming they wove the harness to/thru their front end points, and snapped on terminating plastic connectors, etc as needed.

Thank you in advance for all replies,

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
YOUNG57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1141

Loc: Tennessee
Reg: 12-06-10
07-20-16 03:22 PM - Post#2640891    
    In response to gotta56forme

There is a through-the-firewall plug/connector just above the fuse panel that the under hood wiring harness plugs into the under dash wiring harness.

And there is a through-the-firewall plug just to the driver’s side of the wiper motor that the main power supply, ignition, oil pressure, water temp and heater fan wires can be un-plugged under the dash and pulled through.



 
56handyman 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 333
56handyman
Age: 72
Loc: Prescott,AZ
Reg: 09-08-03
07-20-16 03:45 PM - Post#2640897    
    In response to gotta56forme

I believe there is just one main harness connection under the driver's side hood hinge. This should disconnect from the firewall, the factory put one there. Your blue tubing on your driver's side inner fender leads back to this connection. The remaining connections should be starter, alternator, battery etc. There should be no wires that need to be cut, depending upon what you or previous owners may have done. Having just gone through this with my 56, I highly recommend taking fenders, inner fender and core support off as one piece as many other on this site have suggested. I took everything off individually. You wouldn't believe the hours spent trying to get everything back together correctly, especially at the turn signals and associated trim. To take everything off together, including the splash pan, there are 4 bolts holding the fenders to the body (top and bottom each side), 2 bolts on each side holding the inner fenders to the firewall (below hood hinge), 1 bolt on each side holding the inner fender splash pan to the lower firewall(inward from main lower fender bolt) and 2 bolts holding the core support to the cross member.

Here are some pictures of mine. Sorry for the one rotated image.

Mike

Attachment: IMG_4234.JPG (1.52 MB) 18 View(s)


Before hood and fender install.


Attachment: IMG_4236.JPG (1.91 MB) 14 View(s)


Hood installed and adjusted first.


Attachment: IMG_4244.JPG (1.33 MB) 15 View(s)


Fenders and inner fenders installed together.


Attachment: IMG_4302.JPG (2.14 MB) 16 View(s)


Completed.


Attachment: IMG_4339.JPG (1.09 MB) 17 View(s)


Front harness exiting firewall below hood hinge.


56 210 Handyman


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-20-16 08:44 PM - Post#2640961    
    In response to 56handyman

Young57 and 56Handyman,

Thanks for the replies, that all makes sense now, except... the wiring hackery on this car by the previous owner is at an all time high. This car, to make a long story short, doesn't have a fuse panel - lots of inline fuses. So some stuff goes through a nonfactory bulkhead connector at the firewall, and a number of other things come through a couple other holes on the firewall that are not on connectors. So, after I do some basic labeling, I may be able to get away with cutting (& splicing later) 2 or 3 wires - if I'm lucky.

I was origninally going to pull the doghouse as one piece, but had talked myself out of it for a few reasons. I think you may have just talked me back into it, 56Handyman...

Thanks again!

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
WagonCrazy 
"12th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 3184
WagonCrazy
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 06-07-05
07-22-16 09:41 PM - Post#2641317    
    In response to gotta56forme

You'll never regret spending the approx. $500 and putting a complete AAW wiring harness on your 56. I did it early in the build of my (recently sold) 57 9 passenger wagon. Never regretted it, never had any wiring problems afterwards, never worried about underdash fires, etc.

Think about reprioritizing that task to move it up on your list. will take you a long weekend if you just follow the very detailed instructions that come with the kit.

57 Nomad -LS1 with C4 suspension
59 Apache Fleetside Shortbed BigWindow



 
Bruces 57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2419

Reg: 01-03-07
07-29-16 07:26 AM - Post#2642371    
    In response to WagonCrazy

Hello;
My advise comes from my experience.
I have a 57 that the PO had hacked the wiring. (wires connected together under the dash with household wiring nuts!!!)
One day driving to work, the inside filled with smoke!!! found a grounded out wire coming off the ignition! Got to work and re-insulated it! (temp)
I didn't use AAW cause I'm a cheap guy, but I did use a complete fuse pannel (21 circuit)and harness labled! and took the time to read all I could about wiring a car. I then had the luck to find an article about just what I was about to do!!
The re wire was very sucessful!!! To date, it's one of the best modfications I did to my car!!!
Everything worked great again, no gremlins!!!!!
One of the things I did was to purchace the proper tools to use, along with copius amounts of "crimp" on ends! Also bought really good wire cutters and crimpers! Also Test equipment! Test light, Voltage testers, Everything you need to do a first class job!! Don't scrimp!!!

Bruce



 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-29-16 08:41 AM - Post#2642381    
    In response to Bruces 57

I definitely want to rewire the car for the reasons people have mentioned. If things come together properly, I may just do it after this fall when I can't drive it anymore. I really want to just get the car running right now (current issues are mechanical) so I can spend some time driving it (been a few years) before weather forces it into the garage - haven't put the side windows back in it, yet.

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-05-19 09:01 PM - Post#2770020    
    In response to gotta56forme

(my own) dusty thread bump, finally... the work begins...

front end is loose and with the help of a neighbor will be lifted off tomorrow...

photo: before hood lifted off

photo: before front end lifted off

sorry for the photo quality, just had my rinky-dink cellphone handy...

Gotta56forme/Scott




Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-07-19 05:09 PM - Post#2770148    
    In response to gotta56forme

temporary nose transplant and some more progress...

photo 1

photo 2

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-11-19 08:18 PM - Post#2770503    
    In response to gotta56forme

progress report: pulled driveshaft, transmission hookups, and exhaust manifolds in preparation for pulling the engine - either tomorrow night or Saturday. Everything has been getting bagged & tagged. Looking forward to pulling the lump and starting on the firewall & front frame clean-up. I can see where all new rubber is needed on the front end parts, and it still has one riveted ball joint.

I swear the theme of this car is mismatched fasteners - everywhere! Really disappointing... I think the only thing I removed in the last few days that had matched fasteners was the pinion universal joint u-bolts & nuts.

I'll take more photos when the motor & tranny is out.

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


Edited by gotta56forme on 07-11-19 08:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-13-19 01:16 PM - Post#2770613    
    In response to gotta56forme

Engine and trans removed. Went fairly smoothly, but a brain fart on my part when I removed the combo resulted in busting the tailpiece plug I bought for the task which begat about a quart-sized red puddle of trans fluid on the floor. Kitty litter was pressed into duty for the slimey mess... Oh well, they say ya gotta break a few eggs when you bake a cake, so...

A few photos to document the crime scene:

chevy orange
empty engine bay 1
empty engine bay 2
greasy shifting lump

I did have an onlooker for part of the festivities... a female chickadee(?) found it's way into the garage and thought it could exit thru a fixed skylight. Took about 20-30 minutes to find her way back out, and chirped the entire time it enjoyed my company.

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-17-19 08:05 PM - Post#2770951    
    In response to gotta56forme

So... I've been studying and taking measurements of the bare front. There is some tweakage. The driver's side frame rail is about 3/16" of an inch higher than the passenger side frame rail at/near the a-arms. Also I think both frame horns have seen some damage over time. Looking from the top down, front to back (up to where they meet the front cross member, they basically look like this...

Code:

 )   |  p.  dside  (p=passengerd=driver





the depiction is exaggerated some, but I hope you get the idea.

QOTD: Are these anomalies in the front end something I need to live with or is this something a frame shop can make better at a reasonable cost? Anybody been down this road before?

Thank you in advance,

Gotta56forme/Scott

Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5668
56sedandelivery
Age: 68
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
07-18-19 10:20 AM - Post#2770979    
    In response to gotta56forme

Looks like someone cut into the frame horns inside braces; maybe for a cross-flow radiator install? And it looks like an O/A torch was used to do it; heat equals warpage (that even a word?). Using the garage floor as a "platform" to take your measurements off of? If so, is the floor completely level/flat; I know mine is't. There could even be a twist in the frame; rear end accident, front end accident, just normal wear and tear? Finally, less than 1/4" is probably acceptable. JMO. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-18-19 02:49 PM - Post#2771001    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

  • 56sedandelivery Said:
Looks like someone cut into the frame horns inside braces; maybe for a cross-flow radiator install?
And it looks like an O/A torch was used to do it;


Good eye, yes, the guy I bought it from had let a cousin use the car for a number of years and I was told he was a 'hardcore street racer'. I don't remember what he said about the radiator, but it was missing when he got it back from the cousin and assumed something else had been cobbled in.

  • 56sedandelivery Said:
heat equals warpage (that even a word?).


Yep, there is quite a bit of wavy metal on the frame horns, but I'm not sure if it's from metal torching, or damage. I know the driver's side fender is not original to the car.

  • 56sedandelivery Said:
Using the garage floor as a "platform" to take your measurements off of? If so, is the floor completely level/flat; I know mine is't.


Good point, having washed the floor a few times, seeing how the water puddles, and squeege'ing it out, I've learned that it is pretty darn good. Before I moved into the garage a few people did offer unsolicited comments of how nice my concrete is (should be for what I paid - sheesh). But, I know that's no guarantee...

  • 56sedandelivery Said:
There could even be a twist in the frame; rear end accident, front end accident, just normal wear and tear? Finally, less than 1/4" is probably acceptable. JMO.


I hear what you're saying, I don't think this car is a... virgin... by any stretch of the imagination.

Thanks for the reply,

Gotta56forme/Scott


Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
gotta56forme 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3419
gotta56forme
Reg: 09-19-03
07-20-19 09:43 AM - Post#2771146    
    In response to gotta56forme

Past couple days I've been gutting the dash. About all I have left is removing the stubborn harness to firewall connector. I'll save removing the steering wheel & column (needs some minor repair) for another day. I hate that Grant wheel and it's going away (none to soon). Funny thing, I've amassed a number of steering wheels that were candidates until I finally found what I really wanted - a wheel from a '64-'65 chevelle 300. Why that one? I like the diameter, and it doesn't have the four little chrome dividers for two-toning the wheel. I also have a clock delete plate to replace the clock in the passenger side bezel.

dash
firewall harness connector
dash before


Can I get that to GO? * * * '56 210 HT * * * '56 BelAir HT * * *


 
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