Biscayne
Member
Posts: 51
Loc: North Carolina Coast
Reg: 12-19-04
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10-05-15 04:22 PM - Post#2580417
Ok, I still have the T-3 headlights in my 66. I am tired of not being able to drive at night because my brights are dimmer than anyone else's foglights by themselves. What are my options? I am not a Halo LED fan. But I do like seeing where I am going. What experience do y'all have with conversion kits for HID, Halogen etc that keep the nostalgic look somewhat but add the visibility of increased lighting? I saw some glass lens metal backed versions at a recent swap meet but failed to write the company down. Names of companies or brands, good bad and ugly would be appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.
| 1966 Chevrolet Biscayne. 496 ci, 11:1 comp ratio, TH 400, front disc conversion, 3.73 12 bolt rear. Picking up the kids at school and going grocery shopping, not a trailer queen. |
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 raycow
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
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10-05-15 05:44 PM - Post#2580447
In response to Biscayne
I have been running halogen replacement sealed beams, but I recently added relays to get around the voltage drop in the stock wiring and it made a difference I could see immediately.
Ray
| Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive. |
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427SS65
DECEASED MODERATOR RIP Tom
Posts: 14735
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Reg: 12-11-03
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10-05-15 09:18 PM - Post#2580509
In response to raycow
The only way to do it is what Ray says above. Install relays and use the battery for the power source. That way, you will not be going through the inside of the car with all the copper losses of small wiring.
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BigDogSS
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5100
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
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10-06-15 08:17 AM - Post#2580584
In response to Biscayne
I bought new reproduction T3s and they are much brighter than the old T3 bulbs.
1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
1967 Chevrolet Impala SS Sport Coupe 396 - Marina Blue FF - personal "barn-find" lol
1965 Chevrolet Malibu 4D Wagon |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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10-06-15 10:03 AM - Post#2580607
In response to Biscayne
There really only 3 options that would fit into the car.
1. Halogen sealed beam replacements. These will be brighter than the incandescent T3 bulbs and can be installed with no other changes. You can find higher wattage halogens but they should be used with relays or upgraded wiring.
2. H1 High, H4 Low-High conversions. You'd have a hard time fitting a H1 or H4 conversion housing in the inner location without cutting the rad support. But, a H4 conversion housing would fit into the outer location. The H4 is used in single hi/low beam lighting systems so it can work stand alone. You can also get higher wattage H4 bulbs for more brightness. You could run a halogen or even a higher wattage light in the inner location. If you run a higher wattage H4 or an inner light then you need relays. Buying a DOT approved housing should get you a better light pattern. I'm thinking Hella or Octane might be good sources.
3. LED's. I haven't played with them but get the proper hi/low beam ones that actually dim and have a cutoff so they don't blind oncoming traffic. A company like Oracle comes to mind as a possible good manufacturer. They will be pricy.
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Johnny468
"15th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 856
Loc: Richmond, Va.
Reg: 10-24-08
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10-06-15 10:58 AM - Post#2580612
In response to Biscayne
I installed a headlight relays and the difference, especially high beams, was unbelievable. Ranks right up there with power disc brakes as one of the best safety upgrades I ever made.
Johnny
1965 Impala SS
505/4-speed/3.90
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2cool65
Contributor
Posts: 103
Age: 87
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Reg: 11-10-14
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10-06-15 12:04 PM - Post#2580624
In response to Johnny468
I have to agree with Johnny. Your problem is voltage drop from aged wiring. A $4 relay and a few feet of wire will fix it. Headlights will deteriorate over a long life, so if they are really old, it might be time to put in new ones anyway.
| There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't. |
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Jonechev
Senior Member
Posts: 829
Loc: Cottage Grove,Minnesota. ...
Reg: 05-03-02
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10-07-15 06:34 PM - Post#2580915
In response to 427SS65
That sounds like the way to go. Does anybody have any suggestions or some sort of wiring diagram for this conversion? Don't want it t look like a hack job.
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nicke
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1239
Age: 39
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Reg: 01-06-12
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10-07-15 07:23 PM - Post#2580930
In response to Jonechev
That sounds like the way to go. Does anybody have any suggestions or some sort of wiring diagram for this conversion? Don't want it t look like a hack job.
Mad Electrical has a great write up on this, as well as a bunch of diagrams. You can take a look here.
-Nick
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 steve65
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1150
Age: 64
Loc: Langley, BC
Reg: 09-25-13
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10-07-15 07:23 PM - Post#2580931
In response to Jonechev
Wiring diagram is in the sticky section above, I just picked up the relays, fuse and wiring harness from RPM Electronics in Burnaby for $35.00
Steve Duncan
66 Impala 2dr Coupe
Sold, gone to a better home.
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raycow
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
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10-08-15 09:48 AM - Post#2581018
In response to 2cool65
A $4 relay and a few feet of wire will fix it.
Actually, it takes 2 $4 relays, but let's not quibble about the small stuff. 
Ray
| Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive. |
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 66SS632
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 438
Loc: Langley BC
Reg: 02-09-13
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10-08-15 02:48 PM - Post#2581103
In response to 65_Impala
I actually did the H4 conversion on my impala when I put it back together. The H4 headlight housings are a difficult fit but not impossible. A bit of trimming and they fit fine. I had all new trim ring so it went together quite easily. I'm using the base line H4 bulbs . There are brighter ones available in that configuration but haven't upgraded yet. It was a DEFINATE improvement .
The guy I bought the kit from (at the Portland swap) said I would not need to use a relay kit as all my wiring was new anyway. This proved true for low beams only. As soon as I put on the high beams it would last for 10 second then the switch would overload and cut out the lights completely. I could only run the high beams for 2-5 seconds at a time. One time this past summer screaming down a dark country road switched the highbeams on just in time to swerve and miss a deer!
The kit I bought requires to bend over one of the tabs on the H4 bulb for the high beam. It works fine but draws a lot of current.
I ordered one of those pre made relay kits but didn't have time to install it before I baked the engine and took the car off the road for the season. Winter project. I will take the time and do a nice clean installation.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/For-Headlight-H4- 9003-Cerami...
Still a 17 year old delinquent Hot Rodder
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 BowtieGent
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1458
Loc: Mission, BC.
Reg: 05-07-13
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10-08-15 03:29 PM - Post#2581112
In response to 66SS632
I may have to buy this now too.
Thanks Colin/Steve.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171559005371
Can this be used with standard bulbs, or only for H4 set-ups?
Nitrous is like a hot girl with STD's…You know you wanna hit it, but you’re afraid of the consequences!
1965 Biscayne 2 Door Post: 350,PG,373-posi,C3-DB, PS,PB.
1970 Chevelle Malibu: 53 on 753.
Brian Daniel McClure: 1970-2015. R.I.P. Brother. |
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66SS632
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 438
Loc: Langley BC
Reg: 02-09-13
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10-08-15 03:57 PM - Post#2581122
In response to BowtieGent
I suppose you could use it for normal headlights but why would you?
The whole reason to upgrade the wiring and use relays is so you could put more power to the bulbs. The cost for conversion kit that I bought was about $120 U.S. (Swap special) It included 4 headlights and four H4 bulbs. Did not include relay kit.
There are different levels of kits you can get. The cheapest is plastic and moves up to glass and higher quality from there. I bought the mid level kit. Similar to this.
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/7-Halogen-LED-Whit e-Halo-Ange...
Still a 17 year old delinquent Hot Rodder
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BigDogSS
"14th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5100
Loc: SoCal
Reg: 12-21-01
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10-08-15 04:14 PM - Post#2581126
In response to 66SS632
The conversion above is for large 7" bulb (low/high beam in same bulb), correct? Definitely not just a replacement bulb. A lot of modifications are involved, drastically changing the originality and look of the vehicle.
1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible 327 - Ermine White C1 - VCCA Senior Award
1967 Chevrolet Impala SS Sport Coupe 396 - Marina Blue FF - personal "barn-find" lol
1965 Chevrolet Malibu 4D Wagon |
Edited by BigDogSS on 10-08-15 04:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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BowtieGent
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1458
Loc: Mission, BC.
Reg: 05-07-13
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10-08-15 04:34 PM - Post#2581137
In response to 66SS632
I suppose you could use it for normal headlights but why would you?
The whole reason to upgrade the wiring and use relays is so you could put more power to the bulbs. The cost for conversion kit that I bought was about $120 U.S. (Swap special) It included 4 headlights and four H4 bulbs. Did not include relay kit.
There are different levels of kits you can get. The cheapest is plastic and moves up to glass and higher quality from there. I bought the mid level kit. Similar to this.
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/7-Halogen-LED-Whit e-Halo-Ange...
Just due to the fact that if it allows for OG bulbs to burn brighter, then i'm good with that and not going for something drastically more intensified.
Nitrous is like a hot girl with STD's…You know you wanna hit it, but you’re afraid of the consequences!
1965 Biscayne 2 Door Post: 350,PG,373-posi,C3-DB, PS,PB.
1970 Chevelle Malibu: 53 on 753.
Brian Daniel McClure: 1970-2015. R.I.P. Brother. |
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66SS632
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 438
Loc: Langley BC
Reg: 02-09-13
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10-08-15 04:56 PM - Post#2581141
In response to BigDogSS
The conversion above is for large 7" bulb (low/high beam in same bulb), correct? Definitely not just a replacement bulb. A lot of modifications are involved, drastically changing the originality and look of the vehicle.
That link was basically was just a reference and I realized after it was for a 2 lamp system not a 4. This is similar to the kit I bought.
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/5-3-4-Crystal-Clea r-Halogen-H...
There are different styles available from a stock look up to a modern style. My personal choice was a mid way between new and retro. I like the way it made the front end look.It was an easy installation and only took about an hour. Of coarse I did not install relays but I will be .
Still a 17 year old delinquent Hot Rodder
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4152
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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10-08-15 06:14 PM - Post#2581163
In response to raycow
lets not quibble Ray, $2.55 at allelectronics.com
RLY-351
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raycow
DECEASED
Posts: 27999
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
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10-08-15 08:41 PM - Post#2581191
In response to leon phelps
Good find!. I assume you mean this one?
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/rl...
Ray
| Those who choose an automatic transmission want transportation. Those who choose a manual transmission want to drive. |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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10-08-15 09:54 PM - Post#2581201
In response to 66SS632
The guy I bought the kit from (at the Portland swap) said I would not need to use a relay kit as all my wiring was new anyway. This proved true for low beams only. As soon as I put on the high beams it would last for 10 second then the switch would overload and cut out the lights completely. I could only run the high beams for 2-5 seconds at a time. One time this past summer screaming down a dark country road switched the highbeams on just in time to swerve and miss a deer!
The kit I bought requires to bend over one of the tabs on the H4 bulb for the high beam. It works fine but draws a lot of current.
That's why I posted you should only run H4's on the original wiring when only using the outer bulbs. H4's are 55W low and 60W high. The original bulbs are 50W low and 37W high. So, you go from 148W to 240W when changing to 4x H4 bulbs for the high beam which overloads the switch and wiring not designed for it. The higher wattage of the H4 is also why you don't necessarily need 4 high beam bulbs.
The H4 kits can install in the outer locations OK but they tend not to fit in the inner locations very well due to the rad support not being open behind that location. You can also get H1 kits for the high only which is a single filament but they don't plug in either.
The H4 is really supposed to go into a larger reflector but they are a good bulb and 5.25" type reflectors can be designed to work well with them.
FYI, forget about any H4 HID upgrade kit. You might as well run spotlights and leave them on all the time because you'll be blinding oncoming traffic just as badly. Of course, some people don't care as long as they can see....
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leon phelps
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4152
Loc: Croydon Manor, PA
Reg: 06-04-05
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10-09-15 05:16 AM - Post#2581219
In response to raycow
yes, but lets not forget the housing. 
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BowtieGent
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1458
Loc: Mission, BC.
Reg: 05-07-13
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10-09-15 07:26 AM - Post#2581235
In response to 65_Impala
The guy I bought the kit from (at the Portland swap) said I would not need to use a relay kit as all my wiring was new anyway. This proved true for low beams only. As soon as I put on the high beams it would last for 10 second then the switch would overload and cut out the lights completely. I could only run the high beams for 2-5 seconds at a time. One time this past summer screaming down a dark country road switched the highbeams on just in time to swerve and miss a deer!
The kit I bought requires to bend over one of the tabs on the H4 bulb for the high beam. It works fine but draws a lot of current.
That's why I posted you should only run H4's on the original wiring when only using the outer bulbs. H4's are 55W low and 60W high. The original bulbs are 50W low and 37W high. So, you go from 148W to 240W when changing to 4x H4 bulbs for the high beam which overloads the switch and wiring not designed for it. The higher wattage of the H4 is also why you don't necessarily need 4 high beam bulbs.
The H4 kits can install in the outer locations OK but they tend not to fit in the inner locations very well due to the rad support not being open behind that location. You can also get H1 kits for the high only which is a single filament but they don't plug in either.
The H4 is really supposed to go into a larger reflector but they are a good bulb and 5.25" type reflectors can be designed to work well with them.
FYI, forget about any H4 HID upgrade kit. You might as well run spotlights and leave them on all the time because you'll be blinding oncoming traffic just as badly. Of course, some people don't care as long as they can see....
THAT, is exactly the reason I don't want to go with TOO bright a bulb. If I can enhance the brightness of a stock bulb, or a slight step up from one, then I am good. I don't plan on doing much night driving with my Biscayne unless I have to.
Nitrous is like a hot girl with STD's…You know you wanna hit it, but you’re afraid of the consequences!
1965 Biscayne 2 Door Post: 350,PG,373-posi,C3-DB, PS,PB.
1970 Chevelle Malibu: 53 on 753.
Brian Daniel McClure: 1970-2015. R.I.P. Brother. |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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10-09-15 09:45 AM - Post#2581265
In response to BowtieGent
It's not all just the brightness. It's also the beam pattern. Most HID retrofits mess-up the beam pattern so the light goes into the eyes of oncoming traffic instead of the places it should go.
A HID H4 retrofit will take a housing that produces a good cutoff line and turn it into a housing where the light goes everywhere.
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66SS632
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 438
Loc: Langley BC
Reg: 02-09-13
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10-09-15 11:21 AM - Post#2581281
In response to 65_Impala
The guy I bought the kit from (at the Portland swap) said I would not need to use a relay kit as all my wiring was new anyway. This proved true for low beams only. As soon as I put on the high beams it would last for 10 second then the switch would overload and cut out the lights completely. I could only run the high beams for 2-5 seconds at a time. One time this past summer screaming down a dark country road switched the highbeams on just in time to swerve and miss a deer!
The kit I bought requires to bend over one of the tabs on the H4 bulb for the high beam. It works fine but draws a lot of current.
That's why I posted you should only run H4's on the original wiring when only using the outer bulbs. H4's are 55W low and 60W high. The original bulbs are 50W low and 37W high. So, you go from 148W to 240W when changing to 4x H4 bulbs for the high beam which overloads the switch and wiring not designed for it. The higher wattage of the H4 is also why you don't necessarily need 4 high beam bulbs.
The H4 kits can install in the outer locations OK but they tend not to fit in the inner locations very well due to the rad support not being open behind that location. You can also get H1 kits for the high only which is a single filament but they don't plug in either.
The H4 is really supposed to go into a larger reflector but they are a good bulb and 5.25" type reflectors can be designed to work well with them.
FYI, forget about any H4 HID upgrade kit. You might as well run spotlights and leave them on all the time because you'll be blinding oncoming traffic just as badly. Of course, some people don't care as long as they can see...
------------------------- -------------------------
Since I have ACTUALLY DONE the conversion I can tell you it's not difficult.
Rad support is NOT an issue!
Headlight housings are NOT an issue. Feed the wire through and attach it to the new headlight as normal!
The only problem is the fit is tight but can be corrected by using pliers to squeeze the metal ring around the headlight housing until it fits in snug... takes 2 minutes !! I spent more time changing the mounting hardware than installing the new headlights.
I found the H4 to be at least 20% brighter than the Halogen sealed beams that I took out.
As far as the brightness for the highbeams ... well the brighter the better as far as I'm concerned. It won't matter if an irresponsible driver who leaves his high beams on as another car approaches has super bright lights or not, it's still a nuisance!
Traveling down a dark road this past summer to the family cottage I spotted a deer ready to jump out. I probably would not have seen it without those super bright high beams. I don't leave them on as other cars approach, but I want them available when required.
Still a 17 year old delinquent Hot Rodder
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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10-09-15 03:26 PM - Post#2581320
In response to 66SS632
Since I have ACTUALLY DONE the conversion I can tell you it's not difficult.
Well aren't you special....
I've done it too. I put holes in the rad support behind the inner lights because otherwise the wires were crunched tight up against the rad support. The fit can depend on the type of housing used and one persons version of fit doesn't always match the next persons version of fit.
The last kit you linked WILL NOT install without making some adjustments to the headlight bucket for the "tabs" on the retrofit housing. They aren't just bolt-in, but they are relatively easy to install. The "tabs" on the housings are bent pieces and you can't cut them off because it'd screw up the housing so it doesn't fit tight. So, the only real choice is cutting a couple of new notches in the buckets.
I also found it funny how you first posted they're a difficult fit and require trimming to your present claims that "they just drop in".
The relay harness you linked is THE WRONG KIT because it only connects relays to 2 headlights. This is the proper harness to use on a 4x H4 retrofit. It used the outers as hi/lo and the inners as hi only.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Headlight-Relay -Wiring-H...
I guess you can't read very well either. My second comment was about H4 HID retrofit kits which you seem to have completely ignored. Maybe you don't know what a HID retrofit kit is???
I also installed relays immediately when I re-wired by car because I knew that running a higher wattage load on the stock headlight switch is a dumb idea.
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bjbuchanan
Forum Newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 03-18-15
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10-09-15 07:32 PM - Post#2581383
In response to BowtieGent
I used that (or rly similar) kit on my car, plug and play. You just attach the ground and make sure to orient plugs properly.
I bought it bc it's easy to install, has fresh connectors and the relays come with it. You cant rly beat the price if you factor in prices of new stuff for all of it at 25$.
Only knock is cheasy see thru relays and convoluted tubing around it
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Blackimpala
Member
Posts: 108
Loc: Colville Wa
Reg: 04-15-04
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10-12-15 11:07 AM - Post#2581954
In response to Biscayne
This explains relays as best as I have seen. Built My relay set from the info I found here.
http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/bright er-h...
Floyd
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2cool65
Contributor
Posts: 103
Age: 87
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Reg: 11-10-14
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10-12-15 05:12 PM - Post#2582034
In response to raycow
W e l l -- if ya wanna be picky -- and use the high beams...
| There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't. |
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2cool65
Contributor
Posts: 103
Age: 87
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Reg: 11-10-14
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10-12-15 05:31 PM - Post#2582039
In response to 65_Impala
65_Impala: did you use the harness you show? It looks pretty slick compared to splicing up all the wiring myself. I have ceramic sockets and the relays, but for $50, this might be worth it.
| There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't. |
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65_Impala
Very Senior Member
Posts: 4960
Reg: 12-29-02
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10-12-15 05:42 PM - Post#2582042
In response to 2cool65
No, my car is modified to the point it required a harness different than a stock harness so I re-wired it with a AAW universal kit plus a bunch of other parts I acquired. So, I installed relays as part of that wiring. I actually put 4 relays into the car so a relay or wiring failure will only cause a light failure on one side.
But, that kit looks slick for someone wanting to add relays to their existing wiring. However, you'd end-up with the old sockets dangling unless you removed that wiring out of the harness. That really wouldn't be too hard to do.
I have also seen relays added by cutting the wiring between the firewall and the front harness to re-use the old light harness. Basically, put the wires from the firewall to the relay coils and power the wires to the lights from the relay contacts. However, the original wiring is a little on the small side to handle more wattage of light and if it's original the connectors have probably lost much of their ability to make a solid connection on the headlight terminals.
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