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Username Post: My '60 classic project        (Topic#308201)
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7391
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
01-04-20 01:44 AM - Post#2783653    
    In response to PLS

That looks like the correct one, maybe get dimensions from them to compare to the size of your crank end. You wouldn’t think someone resized your crank, more likely that balancer you have is the wrong one?
I see some on Amazon and eBay as well but if you get a good impression of Damper Doctor, go with them?

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 


Techhead 
Senior Member
Posts: 946
Techhead
Loc: Etobicoke, Canada
Reg: 10-25-05
01-04-20 11:23 AM - Post#2783673    
    In response to PLS

Check the pictures here. NOS balancer https://picclick.com/1955-1982-Chevrolet-S BC-NOS-3...

I'll be Frank, this hobby isn't getting any easier.
58 Delray in disaray


 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
01-17-20 08:32 PM - Post#2784570    
    In response to Techhead

  • Techhead Said:
Check the pictures here. NOS balancer https://picclick.com/1955-1982-Chevrolet-S BC-NOS-3...




Frank I looked at those but it seems that they are all 8” and mine is 6.1”. I talked to a guy at Damper Doctor and the only riveted balancer that they have that’s my size is $300 plus shipping so I just decided to use the one that I have.








Ok I finally was able to get the ’60 out today and start it up. After running into the pushrod issue and buying a Manley pushrod length checker that indicated that the pushrods that were in the engine was too long but as far as I can tell they were the correct OEM length 7.794”, I saw the calculation that was on this forum http://www.thedirtforum.com/pushrodlengths.htm as to how us it. According to the checker instructions, if the checker touched both the pushrod and the valve stem at the same time the pushrod was correct, if it touched the stem first then the rod was too short, if it touched the rod first then the rod was too long. When I put the checker on the stud it touched the rod first which indicated the rod was too long. Then I blackened the #1 cylinder valve stems and turned it over a few times and the new rocker arms removed the black from the center of the stems. I found some Melling pushrods at Auto Zone that matched the shorter rod measurement that I had come up with but they were ball end rather than swedge end and they wouldn’t go thru the pushrod hole in the head. Then I did the calculation from the forum above and it worked out almost perfectly for a 7.794” pushrod. I then contacted Manley with the results that I got when using the calculations using their tool and wanted to know if that was correct and their answer was simply “that wasn’t our publication”, they didn’t deny or confirm the calculation. I then blackened #1 cylinder and #6 cylinder valve stem ends, installed the new rockers and adjusted the lash, cranked the engine over a few dozen times and the rockers removed the black in the middle of each stems. I saw somewhere that this was a way to indicate if the rods were too long or too short depending on where the rocker made the mark so I decided that if I had of used that method without know about the rod length checker then I would have figured my existing pushrods were correct so I reinstalled them. I did the cold adjustment first then using a set of valve covers that I bought and drilled a 1” hole above each rocker stud I cranked it up and did the adjustment again with it running. With these valve covers there was absolutely no oil spatter! Can’t half hear so I had to get my pit crew chief to listen for the ticking, she’s getting pretty good at this. I don’t know if doing the adjusting while it was running made a great deal of difference or not but now it has been done both ways and seems to be running pretty smooth. I put about 5 miles on it and before I have to put it back in the hole, I will put a few more on it to see how it does. For the time being I reinstalled the harmonic balancer and bolted it on this time after drilling and taping the crank. I want to thank everyone who has put up with and helped me on this and I hope that you don’t think, “well he ask for advise and help and then doesn’t take it” but as Griff said I’m not racing the car or turning high RPM and I drive it embarrassingly slow, not really, so after a lot of thinking I did what I did and now will drive it until something else happens. If it does, I hope that all of you will still be gracious enough to help again. Lamar

https://youtu.be/iTJJkxMwfgg




 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
02-21-20 06:08 PM - Post#2787018    
    In response to PLS

Well I can’t claim that my ’60 is completely original anymore, over the past few weeks I have added brake self-adjusters with some clarification and help on a couple of things from DZAUTO. I really don’t know why because I probably want drive it enough to wear the brakes down enough for the adjusters to work. I don’t remember having to manually adjust them very much years ago. Dummy didn’t think about checking the local parts places for the kit so I ordered them from Truckshop/Carshop and then realized that pretty much all of the parts stores around me have them and when I checked later, they have the same part number on them as the ones I bought. I understand that when they began to install them in 1963 that they omitted the adjusting hole in the back plate and that the drum had a hole in it, I may be wrong about this. I can see a protentional problem with no way to loosen the shoes on the left side to get the drum off if the shoes have worn the drum because the new adjusting star part of the adjuster is facing the rear shoe rather than the front shoe and therefore is not accessible from the hole in the backplate, the right side is. When dealing with installing the shoes you really need three hands when trying to get the hold down springs on. I got tired of everything falling apart while trying to get the springs on so I came up with an idea of using 3 dryer vent clamps put together and it worked like a charm. I installed the adjuster and spring on both shoes and then put the clamps around everything, put them in place and tightened the clamp until the top of the shoes closed in around the top anchor stud and left both hand free to get the hold down springs on. I also made me a spring install tool out of a pushrod, I ground the end some and it worked. I have the big tool but I hit the wheel well opening and chipped a place so I came up with this to prevent that again, it want get the springs off but does good getting them back on. I have about 60 miles on it since I finished the broken valve spring issue and it seems to be running pretty well.

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Attachment: 3a.jpg (603.02 KB) 12 View(s)




Attachment: 4a.jpg (227.7 KB) 9 View(s)






 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
03-05-20 04:11 PM - Post#2788004    
    In response to PLS

I got the ’60 out this past weekend after getting the self-adjusters installed to see how it was going to do. I drove it about 5 miles and then jacked it up and checked each wheel to see how they rotated and they seemed ok and it braked fine so I drove it probably another 5 miles and rechecked it again and they seemed to be a little tighter. I jacked up the left front to remove the wheel so that I could remove the drum and loosen the adjustment a little (no access to the adjusting wheel with the self-adjusters) and the drum was too hot to handle. After letting it cool I removed the drum which was difficult to get off and loosened the brake a little but then I couldn’t get the drum back on and that’s when I noticed the shoes weren’t up to the anchor at the top and must have sprung out a little more when the drum was removed. (1st picture) The first thing that I though was maybe something was preventing the fluid from being pushed out of the cylinder when the brake was released so before I did anything I opened the bleeder and got a little fluid but the shoes didn't move so I used the hose clamp to set the shoe and the drum went on with no resistance. Drove about 10 miles and the brake pedal was getting harder and not traveling down very much. After I got it home and began to check again I could hardly rotate the front wheels and the drums were very hot. When I installed all new brake parts a year or so ago, as I was getting closer to having the car drivable, I would install the brake parts and then tap the whole thing with a rubber mallet to settle everything in and the shoes would fit snug around the anchor stud and the drum would go right on, then I adjusted them. I did the same thing when I installed the self-adjusters with the same results. I decided to removed the self-adjusters and reinstalled my original new parts and, on each corner, I couldn’t get the shoes to settle in with tapping so I would have to use the hose clamp to seat the shoes at the anchor stud. After I applied the brake and let it off, I would remove one drum, hard to get off, and after I did each individually, again they all would look like the 1st picture. Very puzzling and hopefully I will be able to get it out tomorrow and give it another try. Until then, any thoughts? Lamar


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Attachment: IMG_8888__2_.JPG (109.83 KB) 7 View(s)


Used clamp to set – Installed drum and applied brake


Attachment: IMG_8890__2_.JPG (105.79 KB) 6 View(s)


Removed drum, hard to get off- shoes not set and seems to have sprung open more because can’t get drum back on without first using clamp to set the ends again.




Edited by PLS on 03-05-20 04:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7391
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
03-06-20 03:21 AM - Post#2788032    
    In response to PLS

Last pic, the shoes should naturally rest hard against that mounting post, you have the shoes aligned wrong somehow. Push the shoes outward and they should snap together when you get it right. There is a jam somewhere.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
03-06-20 01:12 PM - Post#2788073    
    In response to DonSSDD


Thank you, Don. Yesterday was a very frustrating day to say the least and a very limited space to work on it doesn’t help the situation either, a car that is nearly 7’ wide in a 11’ room. Put it on my wheel dollies, move it to one side, jack up one wheel and remove it, remove the drum, check the brakes, put the drum back on, press the brake pedal, remove the drum – hard to get off, check the brakes again, did not retract, opened bleeder, not much movement, put clamp on and pulled shoes together, installed drum, installed wheel, moved to other wheel on same side did the same thing. Put it back on the dollies and moved it to the other side and did the same thing as above with the same results. This was probably one of those “think long think wrong” situations. I think that I “let the old man in” yesterday. Here’s an explanation: Toby Keith was playing golf with Clint Eastwood and he mentioned to Toby that he would be turning 88 and Toby asked him “what keeps you going” and Eastwood replied “I get up every day and don’t let the old man in”. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=don%2 7t+let+t... Lyrics on the side bar. So, I got up this morning and didn’t let the old man in, got me a cup of coffee and went downstairs sat down in front of the left front wheel and asked, what’s wrong with you? I know that you are thinking, this has got to him but it only won the battle yesterday. Removed the drum and everything is movable and not jamming anywhere, installed the clamp, pressed and released the pedal and the shoes didn’t retract, tapped on the shoes and nothing happened, opened the bleeder and tapped again and they retracted. Repeated again but this time instead of opening the bleeder I loosened the fitting at the master cylinder to bleed the pressure off at this point and they retracted when I tapped them. So, I ordered another Chinese master and it supposed to be at my local NAPA at 3:30. I will install it and see if I won the war. Lamar



 
JayChicago 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 417
JayChicago
Loc: Chicago
Reg: 01-03-13
03-06-20 04:12 PM - Post#2788084    
    In response to PLS

Here is a guess, a maybe:
If the master cylinder push rod does not fully retract, the pressurized fluid in the brake line cannot release back into the master reservoir. It will maintain pressure in the lines.



 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
03-06-20 08:10 PM - Post#2788095    
    In response to JayChicago

I’m not saying that I have won the war but I think that I have won this battle. So far after installing the new master cylinder when I apply the brakes and release the pedal the wheels spin like a top and when I removed all 4 drums they practically fell off. I have stopped for the night because I could sense the “old man coming in”, I will finish the adjustment in the morning and give it a road test and see how it does. Thank you, Jay, that probably could create a problem as you describe. My problem didn’t start until after I tore everything apart and installed the self-adjusters, and I’m not saying that they caused the problem, just happened that it started then. Before that the brakes worked fine for the 1000+ miles that I have put on it since I got it drivable. Will post the results tomorrow after driving it. Lamar



 
JayChicago 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 417
JayChicago
Loc: Chicago
Reg: 01-03-13
03-07-20 10:15 AM - Post#2788125    
    In response to PLS






Edited by JayChicago on 03-08-20 10:16 AM. Reason for edit: deleted because info was wrong!

 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1560

Age: 70
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
03-07-20 11:15 AM - Post#2788131    
    In response to JayChicago

Jay I don't mean to be disrespectful, but the long shoe lining goes on the rear and the short lining one goes on the front.

The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
03-07-20 02:00 PM - Post#2788145    
    In response to PLS

Just got home after putting 40+ miles on the 60 and it really did great :). Shirley and I took it to a car show and got some good comments and it was a great day for a show as well. I will probably do a few more clicks on each wheel until I get a good pedal. So far so good Lamar



 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 7391
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
03-07-20 04:20 PM - Post#2788149    
    In response to PLS

Sounds like it’s fixed, that feels good.

63 Pontiac Parisienne Sport Coupe(CDN Chev mechanically (409, 4 speed),62 Bel Air SC (sold), 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold), 63 SWC Vette (sold),
Member #2194


 
mahlmann 
"10th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1783
mahlmann
Age: 76
Loc: Las Cruces, NM
Reg: 01-20-11
03-07-20 06:53 PM - Post#2788164    
    In response to 55 Shaker

I remember the shoes go on just like you take group photos: tall ones in back and short ones in front!



Mike Ahlmann
Las Cruces, NM
'50 Tin Woodies (two) Ramon and Willard
'58 Impala Sport Coupe
'69 El Camino SS-396
'07 Ford F150 to haul parts for above
'16 Ford Explorer 3.5 EcoBoost - Red Rocket


 
JayChicago 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 417
JayChicago
Loc: Chicago
Reg: 01-03-13
03-08-20 10:44 AM - Post#2788201    
    In response to 55 Shaker

You guys are right, and I was dead wrong, about the orientation of the long shoe/short shoe. I deleted my previous post because I don't want to leave bum info posted.

And I felt so sure of my logic! I need to be careful with that; not the first time I have felt sure of something which then proves to be wrong.



 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
03-08-20 12:11 PM - Post#2788211    
    In response to JayChicago

  • DonSSDD Said:
Sounds like it’s fixed, that feels good.


For right now and it does feel good but as I hear there will always be something to fix.







  • mahlmann Said:
I remember the shoes go on just like you take group photos: tall ones in back and short ones in front!




I like that but I will still have to take a picture before taking them apart because I would probably forget the analogy in putting them back together







  • JayChicago Said:
You guys are right, and I was dead wrong, about the orientation of the long shoe/short shoe. I deleted my previous post because I don't want to leave bum info posted.

And I felt so sure of my logic! I need to be careful with that; not the first time I have felt sure of something which then proves to be wrong.



Looks like I am in good company, case in point, my comment to 59fins post about “The last Impala”. Not sure what I was thinking or where my brain was when I commented. Most of the sand in my hour-glass is now in the bottom and I think that it has moved down so quickly that it has pulled what was left of my brain with it. I will reply to that one later.





On the way home yesterday I stopped by a friends house and took a picture in front of his almost real store.

Attachment: IMG_8900.jpg (164.99 KB) 9 View(s)






 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
04-18-20 03:54 PM - Post#2791451    
    In response to PLS

It was a beautiful day here today so we got the ’60 out and put about 40 miles on her. Since she is in the elderly category with underling conditions, I had a custom mask made for her to help her during this virus situation. Don’t get me wrong I’m not making light of the situation just enjoying a perfect day to cruise. Lamar

Attachment: IMG_9045_-_Copy__4_.JPG (1.06 MB) 5 View(s)






Edited by PLS on 06-14-20 05:02 AM. Reason for edit: Changed unusual characters

 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
04-22-20 06:15 PM - Post#2791807    
    In response to PLS

Beautiful day again today so we took the’60 out for lunch



 
55 Shaker 
Member
Posts: 1560

Age: 70
Loc: north central IL.
Reg: 03-13-06
04-22-20 07:20 PM - Post#2791817    
    In response to PLS

Good music and good food.

The older I get, the more dangerous, I am !!!!


 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
04-23-20 12:09 PM - Post#2791879    
    In response to 55 Shaker





 
60Impala1837 
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 224
60Impala1837
Loc: Las Vegas
Reg: 07-06-13
05-01-20 06:01 PM - Post#2792565    
    In response to PLS

Fantastic !!!!


Jim
'60 Impala Sport Coupe, 283/pg
Former:
'65 BelAir (355 / 350 hp)
'68 Caprice (donor)
My Pictures


 
PLS 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1575
PLS
Loc: Smyrna, Georgia
Reg: 06-07-12
06-30-20 04:59 PM - Post#2797580    
    In response to PLS

About a month ago my wife gave one of her customers a piece of furniture and Jason came along to help load it. He was looking at the

Attachment: IMG_0170__1_.JPG (667.12 KB) 2 View(s)






 


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