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Ecklers AutoMotive
 Page 10 of 11 « First<891011
Username Post: 55 Sport Coupe - 396 LT1 - T56        (Topic#292613)
4dr 57 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4569
4dr 57
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
01-05-19 10:48 AM - Post#2756637    
    In response to WagonCrazy

Mark told that these water pumps (the stock ones) both push (out side) and pull (return side.) otherwise they will cavitate and can cause the motor to over heat.So I hooked them up. It was still overheating. Found out that these motors need a reduction/restrictor in the out(side) so I added one using a NAPA valve that I leave open all the time. Other types are also available from JTR Publishing. Problem solved. BestWishes For a Great New Year!!

Things in the usvislands are still a struggle. It will remain so until the view of "what's next to be repaired, retored, fixed, (you know) is over and that long drink of water signifying well done take place that things will be 'back to normal.'
The Islanders have earned much respect by everyone who is and has helped, worked we dem. As the sister in law says, we just have to admit it is what it is and go on from there...never mind she taught the locals Shakespere in Calypso 55 years ago and has been 'der ever since.
Stan

It's all good. mostly




 
Ecklers AutoMotive
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-06-19 11:22 AM - Post#2756718    
    In response to 4dr 57

Swapped out the fixed pressure return line fuel pressure regulator for an adjustable one. I've used them on these motors in the past with good results.







 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-06-19 06:57 PM - Post#2756743    
    In response to 2Loose

Got the MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
installed with four O-rings on the sensor probe,
that should seal it just fine....


Put in the check valve for the crankcase ventiliation system
with it's special rubber grommet, and the vacuum connection
for that....


And stuck the hose on it....


The only place on the block I can find for the
knock sensor was here down below the 5th
and 7th cylinders, I hope it's right....


I had to run a pipe thread tap in as the threads in the block
were pretty rusty, the sensor screwed in ok....
But it was a tight fit....




 
5Larry7 
"15th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1952
5Larry7
Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 05-17-04
01-07-19 07:40 AM - Post#2756774    
    In response to 2Loose

I put my knock sensors in the block drain bosses. I am not sure if it really makes much difference though. Larry

'57 210, 327 cid, Holley MPFI, 700R4, A/C & more.
'51 Studebaker Starlite coupe, 350, TH400, GV OD.
'96 Replica of a 1950's Teardrop Trailer.


 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-07-19 01:26 PM - Post#2756793    
    In response to 5Larry7

Update on my list of sensors needed for this
'93 LT1 speed-density efi system:

1. MAT
Manifold Air Temperature
This fits in the air ducting in front of the throttle body,
I found one, need to figure out where to put it.

2. ECT
Engine Coolant Temperature
I found one, now I need to figure
out where it goes....

3. IAC
Idle Air Control
This goes on the bottom of
of the throttle body, I found one,
it is installed.

4. TPS
Throttle Position Sensor
This goes on the throttle body,
on the end of the shaft,
I found one, it is installed.

5. MAP
Manifold Absolute Pressure
Bought a new one from Napa,
it needs a special seal that did not come with it,
but I found four o-rings that fit nicely,
it is installed

6. Knock Sensor
I found one
and mounted it in a threaded hole in the block,
down next to cylinders 5 and 7.

7. O2 (Oxygen) Sensor
I have one, need to weld a bung
on one of the header collectors for it.



 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5538
56sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
01-07-19 02:18 PM - Post#2756798    
    In response to 2Loose

Seems the knock sensor, that was originally on my 82 Silverado, was in one of the block drain holes. When new ones are installed, NO sealer, tape, or anything other that what comes on them, should be used. Course the truck no longer has any of the emissions stuff, other than a PCV valve; and it's far too old for testing in this state.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-08-19 06:52 PM - Post#2756924    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

They won't check for anything in this state, Butch, and I don't know if I need it for this FAST computer system, but I'm going to try it, see what happens, I can always remove it later if I really don't need it...

Meanwhile....
Got the ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor installed in a port
on the left side head between cylinders 1 and 3.


Then started working on hanging the new firewall pad on the inside under the dash...



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-09-19 07:18 PM - Post#2756999    
    In response to 2Loose

I found out that this sensor is supposed to mount in the water pump, so I moved it...




Now I have to find the right sensor for the dash temp gage, which goes in the head...

Ran the battery cables up to the firewall from the battery,
along the right side of the floor...


Now I have to decide if I want to put the cables through the firewall
here on the right side...
where I will have to run them across in front of the firewall to the starter and block....


Or run them across the front of the floor on the inside to the hump,
which put them very close to the starter and block on the other side....


Hmmmmmm.....



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-11-19 10:13 AM - Post#2757123    
    In response to 2Loose

Meanwhile, went hunting for a temp sensor for the dash gage...


Found one at my local Napa store...


I haven't done anything about what dash gages I want to run,
still looking around, maybe go all digital ??


Meanwhile, I learned that the knock sensor would perform better
down here at this location on the right side of the motor near the
oil pan, in front of the starter, so moved it here...




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-20-19 12:23 PM - Post#2757805    
    In response to 2Loose

I did finish up the battery cables to the starter and engine block....

More pix here, scroll down...



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-21-19 12:14 PM - Post#2757886    
    In response to 2Loose

My T56 tranny clutch uses an exterior slave cylinder, and I need to find an appropriate mc and figure out the clutch pedal linkage to function properly. The aftermarket mc's I looked at are mounted on the right side of the brake mc and pedal, using the cross shaft setup of the stock '55 under the dash, and where they go through the firewall, they are perfectly positioned to hit my header tubes !!! I'll post some pix when I get some. My current thinking is to find an appropriate sized mc that I can mount on the firewall on the left side of the brake mc, and fab the appropriate linkage under the dash from the pedal that is on the left of the brake pedal, through the firewall to activate it. Shouldn't be hard to do, but I need to figure out what size mc bore to use, and how much leverage I need at the pedal to actuate it correctly. Part of that is the bore of the slave cylinder, and how much movement it needs to actuate the clutch properly. All data I do not currently have.

Another big "Hmmmmm" to solve....
-Willy-



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-21-19 12:16 PM - Post#2757887    
    In response to 2Loose

All right, lemme see if I can get this posted
in one piece after way too many beers...

My T56 has a hydraulic slave cylinder on it,
so I need to come up with a hydraulic master cylinder
to operate it...

The aftermarket ones I've looked at for the 55 Chevy
comes through the firewall down low where the mechanical
linkage used to come through, but the headers I'm using
interfere with that location, so I'm looking at alternatives...

Look at that hole down on the car's right of the steering column,
that's where the original mechanical linkage came through, I
used that hole when I built "Patches", my 55 blown rat rod gasser...

Unfortunately it's way too close to the header pipe
for the heavily angled hydraulic system I've seen that is
designed to come down through that hole, so I'm
going to design my own system...


I have this master cylinder on the shelf that has a 7/8" bore and
a max stroke of 1-5/8", so I have to engineer a system for that...


This is the slave cylinder that came out of my wrecked '93 Camaro
on the T56 tranny, it is a 1" bore and 1-5/8" max stroke...


Here's the original clutch pedal, held in front of the firewall....
as you can see it crosses over through the brake pedal pivot,
and the original linkage came down through that hole that
is now too close to the headers for a hydraulic setup....


So I'm going to engineer adding a lever on the left side of that setup
to actuate that master cylinder, I need to find out the stroke required
for the clutch, then I can locate the master cylinder and how much
pedal movement and master cylinder stroke by locating the MC
at the proper location. The square of the diameters of the cylinders
represents the volume of fluid moved, that gives me a ratio of
0.77 to 1.00 with the mc at 0.875" and the slave at 1.00"

What fun !!!



 
WagonCrazy 
"12th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 3144
WagonCrazy
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 06-07-05
01-22-19 07:54 AM - Post#2757943    
    In response to 2Loose

Willy,
I used a Tilton clutch MC for my nomad setup. (T56 trans) mounted about where your pic shows your mounting location.
Also fabbed up linkage and new pedal stop using the stock clutch pedal. (to limit the pedal travel so it wouldn't bottom out the MC beyond it's limit)
I'll get some pics and post soon.

57 Nomad -LS1 with C4 suspension
59 Apache Fleetside Shortbed BigWindow



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-22-19 10:26 AM - Post#2757952    
    In response to WagonCrazy

Thanks, looking forward to it...



 
WagonCrazy 
"12th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 3144
WagonCrazy
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 06-07-05
01-22-19 12:30 PM - Post#2757957    
    In response to 2Loose

Pardon the fact that these pics all posted at 90 degrees from how I took them...this site has limited pic attaching/massaging capacity.

Just to recap, I have a LS1/T56 6 speed out of a 2002 Camaro.
Yours may be slightly different...but here's what I came up with for mine:

The previous owner had fabbed a custom bracket for the outside of the firewall to install the stock clutch MC out of the camaro. The casting/mount holes sit about 45 degrees to the firewall. (not 90 degrees flat). So the rod sticks thru at an angle. He fabbed it to connect to the clutch pedal, but I didn't like how it protruded into the engine compartment because it interfered with other stuff.

So I came up with using a new Tilton 76-875
master cylinder.(1st and 2nd pic) Here at Summit
Bore size- .875
Stroke- 1.1 inches

Since that MC housing bolts flat (90 degrees perpendicular to the firewall), I just located it in a spot where it would stick thru and bolt up to the pedal arm on (under the dash). (3rd pic.) The 4th pic shows the pedal stop I made, to limit the pushrod/plunger distance (to avoid burying the plunger too far).

Lastly, I added a "remote slave cylinder bleeder line" to the slave cylinder so that I could do the bleeding all by myself without a big fluid dripping mess under the car. Tick Performance makes them for various trans models.
Tick Performance

I only recently got the Nomad to start up, and have bled the clutch and I'm nearing a trial run up the driveway to test the clutch setup...so I'm not 100 percent sure I like this just yet. But so far, so good.
The clutch pedal is hard to push...harder than I'd like to be, so I'm not sure if I need more work on the geometry between the pushrod-to-pedal arm connection point. But it seems like it's functional for now.

Let's see what you come up with Willy!


Attachment: IMG_5211.jpg (1.25 MB) 3 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_5212.jpg (1.16 MB) 3 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_5213.jpg (1.2 MB) 4 View(s)




Attachment: IMG_5214.jpg (1.1 MB) 4 View(s)




57 Nomad -LS1 with C4 suspension
59 Apache Fleetside Shortbed BigWindow



Edited by WagonCrazy on 01-22-19 12:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-22-19 08:12 PM - Post#2757977    
    In response to WagonCrazy

Here's a sketch of what I'm thinking...
design for a 1" movement at the slave
to operate the clutch, I hope that will be enough....

Extend the clutch pedal shaft on the left
and add a lever to give 2.7" effective swing
to activate the master cylinder with 1.3" movement...
The pedal has 5.5" of swing available at the floor
and is 11.5" long, the ratios are shown below....



I hope this made sense....



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-23-19 10:57 AM - Post#2758018    
    In response to 2Loose

Ordered this setup from Dakota Digital....
It's quite a nice looking digital setup with analog display,
Another challenge to get it working the way I want....



It's listed as a VHX 55 CKW



 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5538
56sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
01-23-19 03:29 PM - Post#2758035    
    In response to 2Loose

DANG, You do realize you're bringing up high school geometry/algebra's classes? I HATED those classes. ALL I really learned from those, was NOT to put down ANY MATH CLASS as an ELECTIVE, on "the form". Even if you were a "fair student", they put you in one of those classes. JUST DON"T DO IT, unless you can carry that "weight". NO, I was't that "fair student", but I also I made that mistake! Guess I should have plugged in "Home Economics or Underwater Basket Weaving". Dang it, 2Loose, just don;t do this to me; I thought I'd finally worked my way through this residual "mathematics" stuff; I guess NOT. I need to take a break, and probably a long nap. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




Edited by 56sedandelivery on 01-23-19 03:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
WagonCrazy 
"12th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 3144
WagonCrazy
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 06-07-05
01-24-19 09:38 AM - Post#2758115    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

A little bit of agreement on your comments Butch.
I too had to read Willy's formula a couple of times to "get it".
But I think he's looking at the geometry in a correct manner.

57 Nomad -LS1 with C4 suspension
59 Apache Fleetside Shortbed BigWindow



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-24-19 07:15 PM - Post#2758156    
    In response to WagonCrazy

I had to think about it for quite awhile before it started to make sense....

The smaller master cylinder (MC) bore means it will have to travel further than the slave cylinder (SC) will move as the amount of fluid pushed from the MC moves into the larger diameter of the SC.

The ratio is volume, so squaring the diameters and taking the ratio of those two numbers gives me the proportion, and the smaller MC pressure, moved to the SC, will generate a larger force against the larger piston.

Then there's the ratio of my foot on the pedal against the shorter movement up at the MC rod input, less movement up there but higher force applied.

If I put 50 lbs force with my foot on the pedal, leverage action will produce 210 lbs force (50 x 4.2) on the MC piston.

At 7/8" that piston has 0.60 sq in of area, 210 lbs divided by 0.60 sq in gives 350 psi fluid pressure.

At the SC the 1" diameter gives 0.78 sq in area, times 350 psi gives 273 lbs force on the piston.

So with 50 lbs force at the foot pedal giving 273 lbs force at the clutch lever, a ratio of 5.46, 5.5 is close enough.

I sure hope I'm thinking correctly on this !!
Willy




 
2Loose 
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2Loose
Age: 77
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01-25-19 11:48 AM - Post#2758198    
    In response to 2Loose

The 3/8" studs on the firewall to mount the brake mc, were too short for this thick flange on the mc...

Looked at a couple of options, but the quickest was to cut the heads off a couple 1/2" bolts and thread them to fit over the 3/8" studs, with locktite....

That worked fine, except I can't get at the left side nut to tighten it with a wrench, the bracket
for the proportioning valve is in the way, so now I need to modify that bracket so I can get a
wrench in there to tighten that up...


more pix here



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
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2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-30-19 09:39 AM - Post#2758563    
    In response to 2Loose

Had a few minutes yesterday, so worked on that proportioning
valve mounting bracket....

After some heating and hammering, I got what
looked like a pretty good fit, the mounting bolt
for the MC is exposed, and the rear MC brake line
connection is exposed, now let's make the connections
to the proportioning valve fit ok....


None of my brake tools will bend a tight enough
curve to get a good fit for these 3/16" steel short
lines from the MC to the proportioning valve, so I
ground a groove in a 1/2" bolt to try to bend and
get a good tight fit....


Started working the front connection first....


And ran out of time, will work on it some more tomorrow....



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
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2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
01-30-19 09:36 PM - Post#2758628    
    In response to 2Loose

But the rear one didn't look so good....


Went to NAPA and bought some new tubing
and it came out right this time....


Looks pretty good....


Plenty of room for the clutch hydraulic master cylinder....


Looking at the shop manual for the '93 camaro 6 speed
clutch setup, I realized I set it up wrong, it's a "PULL" clutch,
not the "standard" "PUSH" clutch, and I had assembled
it wrong, so now I hafta pull the tranny and clutch apart
and put that throw out bearing back in correctly so it
will "PULL" the clutch fingers to work the clutch....


Laters....



 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
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2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
02-06-19 07:21 PM - Post#2759249    
    In response to 2Loose

Some flash for the dash arrived today,
Very Nice !!




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
02-06-19 07:26 PM - Post#2759251    
    In response to 2Loose

Found this 3/16" tubing bending pliers online,
I'll be using this from now on for these chores....


Not a very good pic, but a definite upgrade on my homemade grooved bolt....




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
02-06-19 07:34 PM - Post#2759252    
    In response to 2Loose

Pulled the stock '55 cover off the tranny tunnel inside,
not enough room, need more room....


So I made some more room....


That helped, but the motor mounts will not "sag" to any degree....
so the tranny has to come straight back, need to cut more....


Ahhh, that 'll do it !!!


The tranny came right out now, and I'll have to fab some tab
strips along those edges to put the cut pieces back in place
with a bunch of sheet metal screws....


I used to wrestle these trannies in and out on my chest....
bench pressing them in and out with no problems....

Ha, finally broke down and bought a tranny jack....
Much, much easier....

Pour me another double scotch, bartender....



 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5538
56sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
02-06-19 08:46 PM - Post#2759259    
    In response to 2Loose

Are the bezels on the new dash insert cast metal or plastic? Hard to really tell in the photos. Hard to cut a perfect floor up, but what else are you going to do? We've had the rare snow storm here, so I have't even been out to the garage/shop in almost a week; I'm starting to suffer some withdrawal symptoms. I'm going to have to brave the trudge through the snow to get out there.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
02-06-19 09:14 PM - Post#2759261    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

I used Dakota Digital as they have the best rep, and they seem to be cast metal, but I have to tell you, when I went to fit the "Bel Air" into the speaker space, the holes for the 3 inserts did not match, had to redrill it, not good !! Eventually I will file an engineering report with Dakota Digital, Ha, little do they know....



 
56sedandelivery 
Dedicated Member
Posts: 5538
56sedandelivery
Age: 67
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
02-06-19 11:29 PM - Post#2759263    
    In response to 2Loose

What better way to "fight"; Engineer against Engineer? My vote's on you. Be sure to point out your thread here on CT to them; just so they know the kind of "exposure" you're providing them with.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.




 
2Loose 
"14th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4395
2Loose
Age: 77
Loc: Sandwich Isles
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02-08-19 10:38 AM - Post#2759395    
    In response to 56sedandelivery

Still working on that clutch problem....

NAPA doesn't even list the clutch release bearing
for this application ('93 Z28 LT1 T56)
I had to go online and found this one on ebay....
I consider that a fairly huge failure for NAPA that they
don't list this part for that Camaro....


The clutch plate I selected has the organic material on the pressure plate side....
And the metallic pads on the flywheel side....


I had to look closely to see that there were three
openings between those fingers there that the three clips
on the release bearing fit into from the motor side of the clutch....


It just 'clicked' into place with a little 'persuasion'....


And a retaining ring clicked into place on the tranny side....


The clutch release arm has a sliding capability so the
tranny can be bolted up, then the arm is repositioned
to engage the release bearing collar...


like this....


The clutch bolted up to the flywheel no problem,


And, yes, I did align the clutch disk with an old tranny input shaft....

Now to fab attachment points for a new cover....


More Later....



 
Ecklers AutoMotive
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